Possibilities for Poland?

[Bast]

I'd love to see Poland as a modern era civ. But I'm not sure we'll get it. I really grew into loving Poland in Civ VI and was hoping to see it again.

 

[Krajzen]

Yeah for some reason I also have warm feelings towards Poland idk why

There are several problems with Poland within civ7 three-age system, which make me hope they will simply add the country as a modern civ with no further complications:
1) If Poland were to be added in the exploration era, then it has absolutely no non-offensive historical successors in the modern era, and yes we would be angry if it was forced to transform into Russia or Germany, no we wouldn't chill and have fun with it, it'd be about as insensitive as forcing Uyghur civ to become PRC China or Ukraine to become Russia
2) You could add "Poland-Lithuania" in era II and then simply "Poland" in era III, but then it would be offensive towards Lithuanians unless you also added Lithuanian modern state civ which is unlikely to put it mildly; besides that, I honestly wouldn't say as a Pole that Poland deserves two civ slots

For those reasons I think the simplest solution is to add Poland as a modern era civ (apparently it covers 17th century as well so it can still have those damn hussars). I have no idea how to ever include Lithuania within the three age system, one would need to ask them, but going "Poland-Lithuania" -> "Poland" would be actually very offensive for them and our difficult shared history, as that'd suggest their culture is subsumed into and assimilated by ours, which was an actual threat to their identity IRL.

I would actually prefer Poland being modern era instead of exploration era, because we could finally leave 14th century which was far from the best or most dramatic centuries of our history (the former would be 1400s till 1648, the latter well everything from 1770s onwards). So we could finally get some non-Piast leader, non-Hussar military unit, non-medieval aestethics etc.

 

[King of Prussia]

I think there is a pretty good chance they come back. The PLC is another good candidate for a civ.

Biggest factor is how long and well they support Civ 7.

Will they do any DLCs that have different civs from the same era that interacted with each other? A poland paired with a Ottomans, Sweden, Aus, Rus, HRE, or Prussia could do well. Spain/Portugal and its various former colonies

 

[gdr_willter]

Yeah for some reason I also have warm feelings towards Poland idk why

There are several problems with Poland within civ7 three-age system, which make me hope they will simply add the country as a modern civ with no further complications:
1) If Poland were to be added in the exploration era, then it has absolutely no non-offensive historical successors in the modern era, and yes we would be angry if it was forced to transform into Russia or Germany, no we wouldn't chill and have fun with it, it'd be about as insensitive as forcing Uyghur civ to become PRC China or Ukraine to become Russia
2) You could add "Poland-Lithuania" in era II and then simply "Poland" in era III, but then it would be offensive towards Lithuanians unless you also added Lithuanian modern state civ which is unlikely to put it mildly; besides that, I honestly wouldn't say as a Pole that Poland deserves two civ slots

For those reasons I think the simplest solution is to add Poland as a modern era civ (apparently it covers 17th century as well so it can still have those damn hussars). I have no idea how to ever include Lithuania within the three age system, one would need to ask them, but going "Poland-Lithuania" -> "Poland" would be actually very offensive for them and our difficult shared history, as that'd suggest their culture is subsumed into and assimilated by ours, which was an actual threat to their identity IRL.

I would actually prefer Poland being modern era instead of exploration era, because we could finally leave 14th century which was far from the best or most dramatic centuries of our history (the former would be 1400s till 1648, the latter well everything from 1770s onwards). So we could finally get some non-Piast leader, non-Hussar military unit, non-medieval aestethics etc.

If you don't mind, how about the Exploration Lithuania and the Modern Poland? It would work?

 

[HktkNban]

Poland should be considered a civilization of the Exploration Age.
The idea of a modern Poland is nonsensical.

In the early 17th century (probably the late Exploration Age), Poland was one of the strongest powers in Europe.
During that time, Poland was a great civilization deserving to be called "one of the main players of the era."
However, Poland was annexed by Prussia and Russia and ultimately dissolved just before the 19th century (the beginning of the modern era).
In other words, a modern Poland does not exist (at least not until its revival in the 20th century).

Modern Polish civilization would be set up as "a weak country that was late to the industrial and capitalist revolutions, failed to modernize, and is doomed to destruction".

 

[Krikkit1]

Hopefully they add Poland-Lithuania in as a Exploration civ

AFTER
They have a mechanism gor you to keep and customize your civ name and city list.

Poland-Lithuania getting to keep it’s name /city list and then choose which set of modern uniques it (will my modern Poland with Prussian uniques, Russian uniques, Mexico uniques?, Siam uniques?). I think would be acceptable to many.

 

[Leucarum]

If Poland were to be added in the exploration era, then it has absolutely no non-offensive historical successors in the modern era

Well, while I agree that few civs have a more problematic set of transitions.. Exploration does feel like the right era to showcase Poland at it's peak... Some of the links between civs are purely geographical/regional, so while I would agree that it's historically nonsensical, they could always do exploration Poland with a default path into a modern scandinavian civ... Maybe the least worst option?

 

[fantsu]

I am sure we will see Poland in some form later on.

 

[LastSword]

Ah, and just like that Poland joins tier 2 civilizations club that need their own topic in general discussions. Shame on you.

Possibilites are currently endless, pure speculative, the only certain thing is that it will not happen soon.

 

[Siptah]

PLC wasn't the hotspot of industrialization, but neither that of colonization or exploration. They existed several centuries into the modern era, so age placement seems somewhat flexible. For me, they work best in Modern Age, as it will then compete with the Ottomans, Russia, Mughals, Austria, etc. which seems where they belong. I don't think that Poland or Lithuania would require additional representation in any case.

Actually, Hungary & Bohemia in Exploration into PLC & Austria in Modern would be my wish for Central/Eastern Europe, despite the potential to make some nationalists unhappy. Flesh out Balkans with a civ, add Greece, Russia and Eastern Rome, and the Eastern part of Europe is done for until we get 150+ civs.

 

[Potworny]

Poland and PLC seem tricky in the three age system, but at the same time I think they have potential for a unique design. After all, Modern age Poland could not only draw from history in the Early Modern times, but also even in the 19th century if needed and reference industrialisation of Łódź or Uhlans as a UU. And if we were to go with Exploration age I personally wouldn't be offended by a hypothetical transition into Austria-Hungary (they were arguably the most "chill" out of our partitioners, and some people sympathise with the empire; we have bottled water with a depiction of Franz Joseph sold here), or France, as a lot of our population (mainly the people who could afford it of course) emigrated there in the turmoil of the uprisings. That being said, we would benefit from a system that allows one to pick a new civ with its uniques and characteristics, but keep the previous name and emblem.

If you ask me, the absolute coolest (albeit rather alt-historical) ancient age predecessors for PLC would be the Scythians (or Sarmatians if we wanna get specific and you don't mind referencing our deluded but adorable proto-nationalism) - we would go from one cavalry civ into another. If Poland/PLC was to be a Modern age civ, then Hungary or Bohemia seem the safest predecessors (though I would ask Hungarians and Czechs first if they don't mind, I think Lithuanians would, probably same with Ukrainians, although Kyivan Rus' going into PLC I think would be more agreeable than Russia...). There is also a possibility of HRE>PLC which makes sense to me for at least two historical reasons - the Kingdom of Poland was "blessed" to emerge by German emperor Otto III in year 1000, and half a millenium later there was a mutual succession treaty between Habsburgs and the Jagiellonians of the First Congress of Vienna (1515). In a ridiculous alt-history scenario (and we're talking those anyway), the Habsburg monarchy could have been transferred into the hand of the Polish ruling dynasty

I don't know whether this thread wouldn't fit better in Ideas&Suggestions, but is this the place where I can share my crazy dream for a Polish 3-age progression (that won't happen) again? (Don't treat it very seriously, I did it mainly to have some fun designing the little emblems - I'm proud of the PLC one even though it'd be unreadable from a distance .)

Spoiler :

So yeah, there are quite a lot of possibilities, not one obvious solution and I guess we're gonna have to (very) patiently wait and see...

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Poland should be considered a civilization of the Exploration Age.
The idea of a modern Poland is nonsensical.

In the early 17th century (probably the late Exploration Age), Poland was one of the strongest powers in Europe.
During that time, Poland was a great civilization deserving to be called "one of the main players of the era."
However, Poland was annexed by Prussia and Russia and ultimately dissolved just before the 19th century (the beginning of the modern era).
In other words, a modern Poland does not exist (at least not until its revival in the 20th century).

Modern Polish civilization would be set up as "a weak country that was late to the industrial and capitalist revolutions, failed to modernize, and is doomed to destruction".

Ages are flexible. The Mughals are also in the Modern Era in the game, and I think Poland (Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth) in the early 17th century could still represent that time period.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Actually, there's a number of interesting eastern european civs, which haven't appeared before, like Romania, Armenia or Serbia. Personally I'd like to see some of them before Poland.

 

[Xandinho]

Poland in the Exploration Age would face a challenging transition into the Modern Age, so I'd place it in the Modern Age instead. I don’t think this is unreasonable, as the ages are quite flexible.

I believe I mentioned somewhere that a transition from Lithuania to modern Poland might be the most feasible option. It would make historical sense and feel immersive. However, I’m not sure how controversial this idea might be.

If Lithuania isn’t an option for some reason, perhaps Bohemia or Romania could work? Most civilizations won’t have strictly linear historical transitions but rather regional ones.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Poland in the Exploration Age would face a challenging transition into the Modern Age, so I'd place it in the Modern Age instead. I don’t think this is unreasonable, as the ages are quite flexible.

I believe I mentioned somewhere that a transition from Lithuania to modern Poland might be the most feasible option. It would make historical sense and feel immersive. However, I’m not sure how controversial this idea might be.

If Lithuania isn’t an option for some reason, perhaps Bohemia or Romania could work? Most civilizations won’t have strictly linear historical transitions but rather regional ones.

I've suggested the Teutonic State before, which could arguably go into both Modern Prussia/Germany, Poland, or Russia.
Humankind had them as the Medieval representation of the Germans, and I'd think they would fit the Exploration Age very well.

 

[Bast]

Poland in the Exploration Age would face a challenging transition into the Modern Age, so I'd place it in the Modern Age instead. I don’t think this is unreasonable, as the ages are quite flexible.

I believe I mentioned somewhere that a transition from Lithuania to modern Poland might be the most feasible option. It would make historical sense and feel immersive. However, I’m not sure how controversial this idea might be.

If Lithuania isn’t an option for some reason, perhaps Bohemia or Romania could work? Most civilizations won’t have strictly linear historical transitions but rather regional ones.

I like this idea also. Lithuanian in exploration and Poland in modern. I would like to Poland vs Russia in modern.

 

[Vitruvian Guar]

I think this works pretty well:

Scythians/Greece -> Kievan Rus -> Poland
Goths/Rome -> HRE -> Poland

Two paths to Poland from the east and from the west, representing both slavic and germanic roots.

Also the existence of Poland as a valid historical option for Kievan Rus would make

Kievan Rus -> Russia

less problematic, as it would now be just an option to pick from. For these reasons I would expect the addition of Poland and Kievan Rus in the same DLC. And later, when when even more civs are added, we can have

Commonwealth -> Poland
Kievan Rus -> Cossack Hetmanate

For maximal unoffensiveness.

 

[Lebo44]

As a Pole, I see Poland only in the Exploration Age. Simply because the Golden Age occurred during that era. All the epic things happened when we had the the winged hussars, a kingdom based in Wawel Castle, magnificent agriculture and a large expanse of territory in Eastern Europe. The real problem is the transition to the Modern Age. Most likely, I would see Russia as a next step although for many history enthusiasts this might be problematic due to political reasons But in 1610 Polish forces captured Moscow, and who knows how it could have turned out with a bit more luck Additionally, in the minds of Polish politicians across centuries, there was always the idea of a large state uniting all the central Slavs (a.k.a. Intermarium).
Germany is also possible as we had Saxon king on the throne. Also we have shared a big chunk of territory (and history as well) with Germans (Prussia was a part of Poland for few centuries). But in the historical context the country is perceived as an arch-enemy and, thus, this option is also controversial from historical point of view.

Maybe the best option would be an entity like European Union but doubt such will be included in the game.

The second option to have Slavs (the eastern version of Normans) included as an Exploration Civ and Scythians as an Ancient civ.
Then:
Scythians -> Slavs -> Poland make sense. However, that would require reinventing Poland from the typical Expansionist/Agricultural/Religious civ to more Cultural or Economic oriented one? I have no idea what Wonder or UU would it get. Hussars is not an option IMO here but maybe Uhlans would be fine (Polish Light Cavalry/Lancers).

 

[Geminus Leonem]

Poland as a modern civ would have to represent WWII Poland.

Exploration Era Poland makes the most sense and is rather easy to come up with ideas for it:

Unique Buildings:

• Ratusz
• Sukiennice

Unique Quarter:

• Rynek Główny

Unique Military Unit:

• Winged Hussar - Unique Cavalry with the borderline mandatory ability to push back enemies

Unique Civilan Unit:

• Szlachta - Unique General

Associated Wonder:

• Wawel Castle

 

[Bast]

As a Pole, I see Poland only in the Exploration Age. Simply because the Golden Age occurred during that era. All the epic things happened when we had the the winged hussars, a kingdom based in Wawel Castle, magnificent agriculture and a large expanse of territory in Eastern Europe. The real problem is the transition to the Modern Age. Most likely, I would see Russia as a next step although for many history enthusiasts this might be problematic due to political reasons But in 1610 Polish forces captured Moscow, and who knows how it could have turned out with a bit more luck Additionally, in the minds of Polish politicians across centuries, there was always the idea of a large state uniting all the central Slavs (a.k.a. Intermarium).
Germany is also possible as we had Saxon king on the throne. Also we have shared a big chunk of territory (and history as well) with Germans (Prussia was a part of Poland for few centuries). But in the historical context the country is perceived as an arch-enemy and, thus, this option is also controversial from historical point of view.

Maybe the best option would be an entity like European Union but doubt such will be included in the game.

The second option to have Slavs (the eastern version of Normans) included as an Exploration Civ and Scythians as an Ancient civ.
Then:
Scythians -> Slavs -> Poland make sense. However, that would require reinventing Poland from the typical Expansionist/Agricultural/Religious civ to more Cultural or Economic oriented one? I have no idea what Wonder or UU would it get. Hussars is not an option IMO here but maybe Uhlans would be fine (Polish Light Cavalry/Lancers).

I feel like the eras are flexible in that, modern doesn't have to start from a specific year. Like Mughal India is from 16th-19th century. That overlaps some of the years of the Polish golden age.