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Post Apocolyptic Mod

Discussion in 'Civ4 - The Second Revolution' started by Sarke, Dec 21, 2006.

  1. Sarke

    Sarke Warlord

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    Garret suggested someone start a thread regarding a possible mod with this theme. I'm gonna start throwing togeather a prototype using mostly stock warlords code..... just to see how something like this might come togeather....

    What mods do you guys think would be of use in this kind of scenario?


    Ideas:

    Make the world generate mostly desert and tundra.... Maybe a small area on each map thats still "fertile" land.

    Barbarians could come in two flavors (maybe even make them war with each other as well) - Brigands, and "Mutants" - Brigands are bands of "normal" humans who are just "trying to get by" -- and "Mutants" are people affected by the radiation and simply want revenge.


    The game could begin at a set date. Perhaps the governments built massive shelters (akin to the "Vaults" in the fallout series) with a set date for them to open. Each player takes the role of the leader of one of these vaults. Having no knowledge of the world as it is now

    It would be cool as all hell to generate "two" worlds... instead of blacking out unknown terrain if possible show it "pre-war" and as you explore it reveals what it looks like now....Dunno how possible this is (with the SDK I believe it is possible in some way thoug)... but would add an awsome effect.

    Perhaps make it so that players can't create settlers until mid-late game. The player would have to conquor existing "barbarian" cities to expand. The player would have to keep various cultures in check and eventually bring those people to their style of thinking.

    Technology could be an awsome mix of "old school" tech (horses, swords and the like) with modern tech. Maybe your initial units would be very powerful but you cant replace them (They are using the weaponry stored in the shelter). Basicly you'd start off as a godly force, but very quickly you'd be forced to make do with what you can find.

    Make almost all units and many buildings require at least one resource. And make some resources depetable. If you discover a pre-war weapons cache you'd be able to build gun-totting guys for a few turns...but once it depletes your back to making swordsmen!

    Religions - Theres so much that could be done here I can't even begin to type it out.

    Civics- Civics could start off as a democrocy style government, with free everything. The guys in the shelters lived pretty free, laid back lives until the doors opened. These polocies arent going to control a bunch of gun-toting badguys though so LESS freedom might be better choices...

    Leaders and Traits:

    Lots you can do here. How would a modern nation "divide" the population when they need to effectively put people into shelters? Perhaps They put a large number of "great minds" into one, while another one might have been developed for "the common man" with lots more room. Each Leader could perhaps be given a "Personal Trait" and a "Society" trait....

    Examples:

    Personal Traits:

    Great Mind: The Leader is all about research. Having decended from scientists of old he still carries on some of the knowledge, and all of the determination of his ancestors. Civ starts with 1 extra technology, and gets 1 free scientist in their capitol.

    Iron Fist: The Leader has come to realize that the ways of the past didnt work in his shelter. He has developed a strict government in order to combat rioting, and other abuses by his people. Civ starts with a special government more effective than start (not availble by research?)

    Society Traits:

    Political Shelter: Many well known and skilled politicians were put inside this shelter. As the years passed, many of these skills were passed on. +1 to all diplomatic relations ("I always love dealing with your people"), and populations slightly less likely to revolt

    Home of the Common Man: This shelter was designed to house large number of mid to low class people. While no special skills were required for entrance, the shelter had the advantage of extra space, and extra man power. The leader of this shelter had to deal with many more problems as a result, and has had more experience dealing with the kinds of situations that are likely to occur "outside". +1 hapiness in all cities, +1 population in all cities.

    Leaky Shelter:

    This shelter unfortunetly wasn't built to code - Due to numerous radiation leaks the people here have developed a look more akin to the mutants on the surface, and less like their otherwise safe brothers in other shelters. +1 relationship with mutants, More tollarance to radiation (units created in capitol able to enter some tiles that otherwise are impassible by normal units)



    Radiation and other "world effects"

    Radiation: Make a special tile that units that dont possess either a "suit" trait, or a "resistance" trait cant pass. Mutant cities can be founded on these tiles, making them a constant pain durring much of the game until you develop a way to capture them. Late game a tech could be developed for workers to clean up these tiles and make them useful again.

    Acid Oceans:

    Not only was the land destroyed in the war, but the oceans became like acid and are uncrossable. Coming up with ways of crossing it would be difficult until mid-late game!

    2 Tech Trees:

    If possible make 2 tech trees. Make one researchable, and the other one only obtainable through "goodie huts" and other unconvential methods. The second tree would be mostly pre-war tech that would be more powerful than other tech of the same era.


    Anyway just a few ideas for this.... Please feel free to throw out your own ideas as well!

    ------
    MODELLERS - We could use some themed models for the game.... What I know we need for sure: <--- These will be updated often!

    "Shelter Warriors" - These guys are the
    Slave workers - basicly cheap, but very ineffective workers. Because they dont have any protection against the radiation, they are very sickly looking. Perhaps the "Slave Master" (I was thinking making each unit 3 guys 1 slave master and 2 slaves) wearing a Hazmat suit)
    Two-Headed Cows- A tribute to Fallout. These are going to be a food resource. Shouldnt be too hard to do.
    Giant Scorpions - Another Fallout tribute. Animals suck.
    Giant Shark - An animal in the water. Your mid-game boats certainlly won't be safe with these guys around!
    Other Mutated animal life.
    Vault City Graphic
    Several flavors of "outsider" cities (ask for details)
    Several flavors of Mutant cities
     
  2. Sarke

    Sarke Warlord

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  3. ArneHD

    ArneHD Just a little bit mad

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    Ok, I have some Ideas of my own. Because you are not going to expand very rapidly in the start, I suggest that we make a new type of improvement, like a city-specific angkor wat. This was done at some point. This would allow for huge citystate cities, like the Hub, or Vault City if you have played fallout 1/2.

    This would have a separate building for each specialist and perhaps in three tiers: first, + 1 main resource, second +1 main + 1 secondary, third +1 main + 1 main OR secondary depending on specialist.

    For example a merchant would at the end have 6 gold + 2 food (note, do not make infinite merchant civics). An engineer would have 5 hammers and 2 beakers.

    However, we would not want to have both empire and super-city, so make these improvements rather expensive, so that they can't afford to many military units or setlers (compare vault city to NCR).

    Also, remember deathclaws from Fallout? Animals are dangerous, and this mod should reflect it.
     
  4. Sarke

    Sarke Warlord

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    What if we set it so that your initial city automatically had something to this effect? An automatically created national wonder (taking the place of the palace?). This would symbolize the stability of your city. I was thinking that your original city would BE the shelter that you leave from. You start with a limited population and a few very powerful non-replaceable units and from there you have to build up. At first any type of military unit outside of the equivilant to the warrior should be extremly expensive. After you lose your initial units your going to have to have large numbers of poorly equipped units.

    I was also thinking that any unit production should halt city growth as well - This will force the cities to stay small while fighting "Outsider" and "Mutant" (Barbarian) waves that will be constantly attacking thier cities early in the game. Perhaps that "initial city only" wonder would negate this factor - that way your home city would continue to grow but captured outposts and the like would struggle a lot more. I'd like to see it so that even if two nations are on the same landmass and relativly close to each other they might not run into each other for quite awhile simply because early in the game you'd need a huge stack just to get past all the enemies. The first thing the player should be worrying about is staking out a little land, and defending it from agression while they research and slowly scout out the land. Any "scout" should definatly need a large escort - with Outsiders, Mutants, and Mutant Animals running around--it's a dangerous world out there and the mod should reflect that.

    Anyway just a few more thoughts.... I started putting togeather a basic prototype tech tree....

    I didn't mention religions before....for the prototype i was thinking of something along this line...

    Concept of God (bascily the idea that there is a god ((duh))... --> Seeking Answers ---> (your people are seeking the meaning of life, the war, and what happened.... and how god plays into this) ---> Ragnarok Doctrine (The theory that the gods waged a war, and the current world is a result - Founds a religion on this concept) OR Rebirth Doctrine (The thought that God died, but has been reborn... and that all things are reborn -- Founds a religion based on this concept) ...

    Various techs obviously would go with each of those as well....Basically they would take the place of Buddhism, and Hinduism from the core game. Two early game religions.

    I was also thinking of making Christianity an "Old World" tech - something non-researchable but able to be discovered via a goodie hut. As it is the worlds largest religion it wouldn't be too outrageous to think that a church or something might survive to be found, or that the people who found it might not take up the old ways....

    Anyway please continue to post ideas.... the concept is really starting to come togeather in a basic form and most of it shouldn't be too hard to put togeather.

    Also post ideas for leaders, traits, and civs -- The only "Hard" rule I have is that all playable civilizations need to have come from shelters (i.e. no civs that originate on the surface)... at least for now....

    -S
     
  5. ArneHD

    ArneHD Just a little bit mad

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    I just had a look on your trait page and it struck me as somewhat similar to the traits in Alpha centauri. Perhaps we can take some inspiration from there?
     
  6. Sarke

    Sarke Warlord

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    AC (and more importantly ACX) will definatly be a huge inspiration simply because it's about as diffrent from civ3 as we want to be....just in another direction. Lets see what we can come up with.

    -S
     
  7. Sarke

    Sarke Warlord

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    First Prototype Screenshots are in! Check them out (3/3 uploaded as of now) - Post was getting HUGE so put them inside spoilers :)

    Screenshot 1: The Shelter Test Civ has Emerged! Behold Shelter 44 with Shelter Warriors (Thanks to White Rabbit for the Model being used (This obviously is a temp graphic but still...credit is due, where credit is due :) )

    Spoiler :


    Screenshot 2: The beginings of a Tech Tree! How can society exist without god!

    Spoiler :


    Screenshot 3: Added Garrets "Wine from Water" mod to the game. I'm hoping to make some modifications to it to make the water a dark orange/brown color or maybe green :)- basicly I want to make it look even more polluted than it does now! -- Perhaps find a way to turn it off for some water (make small lakes of clean water etc.)

    Spoiler :



    Well thats all the work i'm doing tonight. Please continue to post ideas :) -- So far its coming along well.... Tommorow i'm going to remove settlers (temporarily) from the player, and make it so that all barbarians spawn outside of cities are settlers and try a sample game.... Just want to see how many cities they make etc. -- Should be intresting. I'm also going to try to completly remove the "plains" terrain, and see if I can remove jungle and forest too... Heres hoping!
     
  8. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

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    just poppin in to say hello!
     
  9. Sarke

    Sarke Warlord

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    Howdy... Feel free to contribute to the conversation :)

    -S
     
  10. ArneHD

    ArneHD Just a little bit mad

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    That is WICKED! We already have graphics, fear us now fall from heaven!

    That said, I can begin to work on something resembeling a tech tree.
     
  11. Sarke

    Sarke Warlord

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    On the subject of techs.... here's what i've come up with so far.... feel free to change anything for your idea of course... this is just what i've brainstormed:


    Startable Techs (first "line"):

    Fairy Tales - Basicly the study of old tales and other cultural remnants from the ancient past. (I figure if your gonna lock lots of people in a shelter for a few hundred years you'd put a lot of books down there with them to keep them occupied!)

    Concept of God -Already been over this one :)

    Shelter Economics - Basic local currency developed in the shelters.

    Shelter Government- Similar to modern democracy. If possible we should make an alternative available in place of this for leaders with a certain trait.

    Population Control- The art of keeping a large population from over...populating... when you have limited space

    Survey Regulations- A series of rules, and regulations about exploring the outside world. Allows the production of a basic scout type unit ~ = to the warrior. Leads mainly to techs focusing on the worker unit down the line.

    Pre-War Agriculture- The study of agriculture prior to the war. Some techniques might come in handy. Allows worker type units to create "trails"

    Second "line" of techs

    Barter system:
    Requires: Shelter Economics
    This is the common form of currency in the "outside lands" and needs to be studied and adapted to if you are going to have meaningful trade between your conquored cities.

    Realization:
    Requires: Survey Regulations
    Basicly an understanding that the world is nothing like it was supposed to be after the exodus. Only by grasping the truth about the state of things are your people able to put togeather plans for rebuilding. Allows the creation of ultra expensive but fast (compared to other early alternative) Hazmat Suit wearing workers.

    Pillage Necessity:
    Requires: Population Control
    The idea that pillaging outsider and mutant vilages/towns is needed in order to support your current ones. Allows the player to Raze enemy towns, for a production boost (if possible to code it to do so) in the nearest city and some gold.

    Third "line" of techs:

    Monarchy:
    Requires: Fairy Tales AND Shelter Government
    Do I really need to explain this? :king:

    Slavery:
    Requires: Pillage Necessity
    Allows the creation of Slave Labor units. Basicly these guys are the equivilent of VERY slow, but quick building and relativly cheap labor. Actually your best choice at this stage of the game since outsiders and mutants will likely kill off 30-50% of your workers :) One free slave labor unit could be created from razing or capturing a town (depending on balance)?


    Anyway...thats as far as I got... get rid of what you dont like...keep what you do.... i'm open for discussion :)
     
  12. ArneHD

    ArneHD Just a little bit mad

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    Hm... I had actually something like this in mind already. Great minds think alike and all that.

    Anyway, I think you have outlined some gerenral lines: technological advancement, society and spiritual.

    Edit: VITAL QUESTION: Warlords or vanilla?

    Also: I have made a "Desert Farming" tech.

    Also Also: Rename Fairy tales to storytelling? We are looking at a major sociological event here.

    Also Also Also: Shelter government is a good name, but I think we have to realise that this is after a major, but unsecified, disaster. And I don't think that there should be more than 5000/10 000 survivors in any given shelter. Perhaps something along the lines of: "After the survivors emerged, the situation was chaotic. Lack of resources meant that people were scrounging and stealing resources of other weaker folk. In this way entire shelters were lost, driven to extinction by the very people it sought to protect. Those that survived quickly instituted a harsh, but fair rule lead by the leader of the shelter. This is almost universal among all of the shelters that survived. In this way, a basis for future empires was lain."

    It would give some health and happyness bonus (we counter this by giving shelters a low base health/happy cap).

    I would rename population control to rationing, or something. Limited resources and all that. Population control should be a later, higher tech tech. Perhaps we could make it an equvalent to the mining tech, allowing you to develop the "scrap" resource.

    New tech: Ecological study, requires desert farming OR survey regulations, relveals food resources.

    Also Also Also Also: I made a flow diagram, but I can't upload it. Bummer.
    Update: Uploading it, coming soon.
    Spoiler :



    One thing: Monarchy requires Storytelling OR CoG.

    Alsox5: I would REALLY like to connect rationing and Shelter government somehow.
     
  13. Sarke

    Sarke Warlord

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    Ok time to add some new stuff to this:

    First off about the techs:

    Shelter Government- I agree that 5,000-10,000 pop at start would be a good thing. I'd like this to represent the government that the people of the shelters had prior to exodus however.

    Desert Farming: This should be much later in the tech tree. The ability to farm in that harsh climate should be difficult to say the least- the people are going to have to rely on hunting (see my idea on animals below), and other means of survival durring the early game.

    Rationing: Like the name change. No scrap resource from level 1 tech.... maybe it allows for a building ~ = to the granery?

    Ecological Study: Good name. Perhaps requiring Rationing AND Survey regulations? Maybe this would allow for the creation of Domesticator units? (see below)


    New Tech Ideas:

    Socialism: Not available to be researched. Line 1 tech. Not available via goodie hut. Only available initially to governments with the "socialist" trait. Can be acquired via trade...but by the time trade is available mostly obsolete. Basically these people either went into the shelter with populations from communist governments, or the idea emerged durring their stay. Gives some bonuses that Shelter Government doesn't, and is more viable into early-mid game (not quite as good as monarchy, but as an alternative to anarchy many might stay with it!)

    Gatherning: Line 2 tech. Requires Rationing. Reveals the Scrap resource. Basicly the idea that things are going to need to be gathered in order to survive.

    Other Ideas:
    Food Resource thoughts:

    1.) Create Domestication Tech
    2.) Make Two-Headed cows and stuff as animal units.
    3.) make a Domesticater unit with +bonus vs animals
    4.) Upon winning combat with cows (or later better animals) creates a "Domesticated cow" unit
    5.) allow you to move the domesticated cow unit.
    6.) domesticated cow unit would be able to create a pasture which destroys the unit, but creates a resource representing them
    7.) if a unit razes the pasture a new domesticated cow unit is created under the control of the guy who razed the improvement

    What this would do is allow resources to be "stolen" and moved to their own cities. Would add an interesting dynamic to the game.... don't know if its possible but would actually give meaning to razing improvements!

    Scrap: If possible it would be awesome to require this resource to be worked constantly to provide resources... and make it depletable. Make it VERY common.

    -S

    PS- Off to work on Barbarians now. Will get back to you guys soon.
     
  14. Sarke

    Sarke Warlord

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    Ok all... heres what i'm doing. I'm gonna move the thread into the main forums to hopefully get us a little more help. I also organized it a lot more, so people can see our current progress easier. Start posting ideas there instead so it stays bumped. We can use this thread more to talk amongst the dedicated if things there get too crazy :)


    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=197954
     
  15. Robo Magic Man

    Robo Magic Man Prince

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    Sounds awesome, I posted a similar idea earlier but couldn't get support for the project.

    Anyway, count me in for skins, and maybe some coding, tech tree, I could do pretty much whatever you need except for modeling and python.
     
  16. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

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    hey robo this mod is deader than a doornail :cry:
     
  17. Leif

    Leif Prince

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    Darn, I find that out now after having read every post. ;_;
     
  18. GarretSidzaka

    GarretSidzaka Deity

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    LMAO what a buzzkill ;)
     

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