Post-patch conundrum: hope for CiV or time to "put it down?"

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Toulouse, Dec 19, 2010.

  1. Toulouse

    Toulouse Warlord

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    Just wondering what other people are thinking about a simple but tricky place we're at with this game right now. This is not a question for those who think Civ V to date is a successful iteration of the Civ series:

    Are there changes and improvements that could be made to Civ V that would justify release of expansions and having to wait four years or so for Civ VI?

    If the answer is no, is there any effective way we can help Firaxis/2K retire this game so they can get turn their attention back to making something better?
     
  2. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    I struggled to enjoy Civ5 immediately before the patch, and am now on my 3rd game in a row after the patch. SO yes, it does make things better by getting rid of a lot of the exploits.
     
  3. Horizons

    Horizons Needing fed again!

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    You won't have to wait 'four years or so' for a Civ6. If they decide to lay Civ5 to rest they will be onto Civ6 immediately and I predict a release for early 2012. They made plenty $$$ from Civ5 to warrant a Civ6 already. :)
     
  4. lschnarch

    lschnarch Emperor

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    All I can say is:
    Dear Firaxis, put it down. You've tried, you've failed.

    Grudgingly, we accepted that the game was far away from anything promised prior to release.
    Grudgingly, we put our hope into patches.
    Grudgingly, we learned that the patches didn't solve the main issues, but invented new errors.

    Grudgingly, you, Firaxis, should bury this travesty. Have a look at what made your games successful in the past, take the best concepts, improve them where needed and go to develop Civilization VI with a completely new team.
     
  5. Horizons

    Horizons Needing fed again!

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    Civ5 is like Windows Vista ... they will repackage it, fix the main flaws, and re-release it with a flashy new UI within a couple of years and everyone will love it (Civ6 = like Windows 7). :D
     
  6. P-Zombie

    P-Zombie Chieftain

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    This game can be salvaged, for sure.

    Most of the core ideas are good, just overly simple in their current implementation. Like, global happiness. This concept can work. But right now it's kind of like borderline personality disorder: all or nothing. It needs - and crucially, can handle - more complexity. Hopefully being a traffic cop for growth is just the beginning.

    There's tons of room to add things, if the AI can be taught how to use the new stuff. Some of the existing things (national wonders, for instance) are looking better after some tweaking. Maybe a really good game will start to emerge, once we get out of beta. :rolleyes:

    But anyway, I guess you were asking for specific ideas. Things I would focus on if I were a designer:

    Tile improvements: there is nothing a worker can do to help a city get more hammers if it lacks hills. We need a tile improvement that trades food for hammers, like the workshop in Civ4. And beyond that, more choices generally would be a good thing. The selection is too limited, and a bit boring.

    Buildings: reward smaller/builder empires with buildings that more substantially improve the overall productivity of each citizen. Look at each existing building, and think about what tile yield it might improve, or which specialist it might boost.

    AI: still needs work. In my current game I'm still seeing things like unimproved luxury tiles, and pillaged tiles not getting priority. Sid said in that keynote speech that he's never gotten mail from players saying they won too easily. Consider this to be my letter. I used to play on Noble/Prince in Civ4. In Civ5 I'm up to Emperor already. The game should be kicking my butt, what gives?! :crazyeye: :lol:

    ...do those three things, and maybe Civ5 becomes a worthy successor to the series.
     
  7. CivFanaticMan

    CivFanaticMan Warlord

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    I honestly used to be very optimistic about this game. I have now lost all faith...
     
  8. bonafide11

    bonafide11 Worker

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    There's hope for the game. It's fun, but not perfect. It'll get better over time.
     
  9. AfterShafter

    AfterShafter Deity

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    Well, I don't know where I fit on this by the criteria you're laying down. I think the game has a lot to work out, but, Civ IV went through *substantial* changes that took years to put into effect to get to where it is now. I already like the way they're going with Civ V, and I'd rather see them stick with it than give up on it while it's going through its growing pains.

    Bottom line, they released us a beta. Don't like that they did it, but they did. The game is, I feel, taking substantial steps in the right direction. If they keep that up, I'm very much looking forward to playing the game a year from now.
     
  10. Montov

    Montov King

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    Ik liked the game and like it even a bit more after the patch. Looking at the number of hours played and the many hours in the future, it was totally worth the money.
     
  11. Hornet07

    Hornet07 Chieftain

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    Oh My God! its gonna be like Empire Total War all over again :sad:
     
  12. Toulouse

    Toulouse Warlord

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    Ah...you mean have Civ go the "premium expansion" route like CA did with Napoleon: Total War? The question then would be how much of the core game needs be changed and getting all the big changes tested. Could they get rid of 1 upt, long build times, re-do the AI, etc., in just one year?
     
  13. bpheater

    bpheater Chieftain

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    There is still tons of hope for this game! I think it's awesome already, but there's definitely room for improvement. The AI MIGHT make some dumb tactical decisions, but I'm sure that will be fixed in future patches. This patch has improved a little bit... I've actually been attacked by an AI siege unit! I mean, yes, it was out all by its lonesome... And yes, I killed it with a quickness, but nonetheless, the AI used a siege unit!

    See, little improvements like that ;).
     
  14. Surgeon

    Surgeon Warlord

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    Hope not, after midieval total war the AI just seemd to get worse with each implementation. Bring back the old board game style strategy screen!
     
  15. Doctor Phibes

    Doctor Phibes Prince

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    I'm now 50:50 allowing, say, a generous 2-year timescale to produce something as good as Civ4 Warlords. But it depends how well designed and coded their codebase is, and there is no way of knowing that.

    Everything of importance is broken in this game right now, some of which is fixable, and some of which isn't. I don't believe 1upt is fixable in any real sense, but I think diplomacy could be. On the other hand another poster just pointed out how trade is now of almost no relevance at all given the AI's happiness advantage. Without trade, diplomacy doesn't really work. Without diplomacy, we are just playing a sub-standard wargame.

    (And that's before thinking about restoring much-needed complexities like espionage and religion.)
     
  16. DaveGold

    DaveGold Emperor

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    Still unsure. The game feels better now but I get the feeling that the recent changes paper over the cracks. There seems to be a lack of direction in the redesign when good new ideas are needed. The Fountain of Youth is just laughable.
     
  17. ClarenceSeedorf

    ClarenceSeedorf Chieftain

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    Travesty? CiV is currently the 3rd most played game on steam.

    http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

    Firaxis failed? Not really.
     
  18. Islet

    Islet Chieftain

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    So most no. of plays = win?

    Well, after you made a purchase, unless it can't even run on your system, what are you going to do with it? Place it on a shelf? Spin the disc all about? :lol:

    Most deceptively, this stats represents all sorts of play, singleplayer and multiplayer, other games not on Steam might be played more than CiV, but simply not recorded, because of their singleplayer nature or whatever.

    Dragon Age Origins (retail), GTA, The Sims even, would record even higher numbers. So CiV probably would just rank about #30, if you want to rank by no. of plays. Yeah, so CiV =/= win.
     
  19. Gillagad

    Gillagad Chieftain

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    Because we all know if Civ5 fails they're going to start work right away on Civ6. Civ5 failing would probably hurt, rather than help, the chances of a Civ6 which wouldn't be coming out anytime in the near future anyway even if development started today.
     
  20. Mac2411

    Mac2411 Chieftain

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    The game is better post patch, but in my opinion the AI is still a simpleton at all levels and unable to effectively fight a war. That is a major problem in this game because it is greatly biased towards warfare to the detriment of the "builder." The bottom line is that I just don't find the game as fun as previous iterations of Civilization. All of that said, I'm no programmer so I can't say that it cannot be improved further or that it's time to "put it down."
     

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