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[R&F] Post Spring Patch: what does FXS still need fix / rework?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by acluewithout, May 9, 2018.

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What are the top three things you think still need to be fixed / reworked?

  1. AI building and using Airforce units

    63.6%
  2. AI building an using Naval units

    25.0%
  3. AI diplomacy

    26.5%
  4. AI layout of districts and wonders

    2.3%
  5. AI placing cities not on Freshwater

    5.3%
  6. AI use of units

    22.7%
  7. Anti-Cav units (Spearmen, Pikes etc.) (cost, relative strength)

    11.4%
  8. Coastal Cities (too weak)

    6.1%
  9. England (inc. RND, Pax B, Sea Dog)

    9.1%
  10. Other Civs (specify which in comments)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Era Score - Overflow

    5.3%
  12. Era Score - too hard to get Dark Age

    7.6%
  13. Military Tactics (leaf tech)

    12.9%
  14. Specific Governor (specify in comments)

    2.3%
  15. Tier 3 District Buildings (too weak)

    9.1%
  16. UI - Trade Routes

    6.1%
  17. UI - Other (specify in comments)

    3.8%
  18. Walls (too weak)

    0.8%
  19. Policy Card (specify in comments)

    0.8%
  20. City States getting crushed by the AI

    15.2%
  21. Cede cities

    14.4%
  22. UI - Bandar Brunei

    1.5%
  23. UI - Spear of Fionn etc. (clarify which units have this buff)

    8.3%
  24. UI - Experience Bonus (clarify which units earn exp. 'faster' via Barracks etc.)

    6.1%
  25. Value of settling cities on foreign continents (currently not worth the effort)

    3.8%
  26. Production overflow

    11.4%
  27. AI forward settling / other AI city placement issues (specify in comments)

    0.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    There's a lot of good stuff in the Spring Patch. But to my mind, there's still stuff that needs to get fixed - the sooner the better.

    I thought maybe we could have a thread identifying those things the community still thinks need to be fixed (either reworked or buffed). It's a long shot I know, but hopefully a thread like this might get FXS' attention.

    This is not a thread for new ideas or mechanics people want added: it's a thread for existing stuff which they think just doesn't quite work.

    There's a poll at the top where you can vote for the 'top three things' you think need work as a priority (note, you can vote for three (3) things on the poll).

    I've tried to include stuff I've seen in other posts, not just stuff that gets my goat. Post if you have anything to add, and I'll add it to the poll. Comment if you agree or disagree with anything, want to explain why either way, or want to suggest anything.

    If people want, I'll create a separate thread for things people think should be nerfed, and or for mechanics people want added.

    [BTW, there’s also a specific thread about England here.]
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
    Civrinn and Meluhhan like this.
  2. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

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    My top 3 things

    1. Some civs are still pretty underpowered; example being Georgia. They should have boosted their walls instead of the unit imo. Perhaps made it so you don't need earlier walls?
    2. Victor the governor is totally useless
    3. The lategame is kind of empty and boring. They should have a world congress + projects (like World's Fair) like Civ 5 had.
     
  3. BenZL43

    BenZL43 awkward cat

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    UI - Bandar Brunei new icon (up until now they use Jakarta's)
    UI - Spear of Fionn icon indicator in unit who gets it.

    I'm so disappointed, been trying as far as mentioning this in their official twitter and @Sarah_FXS 's personal twitter.. nobody cares. nobody loves Brunei.
     
  4. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    What's the issue with Bandar Brunei?
     
  5. KAL_MAD

    KAL_MAD Chieftain

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    I like that now we can ask the AI to join us in already ongoing wars, but I also wished if we can pay them to start wars without me participating in that war (Just like in Civ 5)
     
    Icicle, Ozymandias9891 and Kinestic like this.
  6. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Sad I could only vote for 3, as there are more than that that needs help (although not all of it needs major changes). To me it comes down to a couple points:
    -AI should use all the resources of the game, which is why I voted for airforce. The fact that I never feel the need to get planes or SAMs/AA guns (I've never built one) just makes it less interesting with less stuff to worry about
    -I also think the AI doesn't put up enough of a fight. I've had cases where I wipe out their first few units, but they don't build anything more as I conquer the next 4-5 of their cities. I mean, I know they're expensive, but at least if they threw a single crossbow in each city to pelt my units, it would slow me down a tiny amount.
    -And then the late game balancing is just way too off. I don't mind balancing of other parts too (civs, policies, governors, etc...) but it still bugs me that the late buildings are virtually worthless. I don't mind them being expensive if they have some kick to them

    There's other larger changes that I wouldn't mind seeing (limiting wonders to closer to their era so I can't build the Colosseum in the modern era, for example). I also wouldn't mind a little bit more kick to a dark age so that it's a real pain in one, and a few more options for golden ages too, but if I had to choose, AI tweaks and general game balance would be my top choices.
     
    Zuizgond and Trav'ling Canuck like this.
  7. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    A nice, comprehensive list.

    If I could add one (and I'm not sure this is fair, as it's big picture rather than a specific fix), it would be increase the speed at which the AI can achieve a victory condition at Immortal and Deity (Emperor and below are probably fine). At this point, I'd take the AI being competent at achieving any victory condition.

    Also, for what it's worth, I assumed `AI use of units` means the AI being tactically more competent at war. I chose that, but other than air and naval, I actually think the AI isn`t too bad tactically. It`s the strategic side of war - picking targets and going after them - that seems to cause it more trouble, turning it into a paper tiger.
     
  8. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    I had to quote this just to say how much I agree with everything here! Well said.
     
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  9. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    Thanks for the comments. I probably should have said 'AI - building and using land units' - doesn't see I can edit it now. But yes, it's about how the AI uses and mobilises units, rather than choosing strategic objectives. I also agree that how the AI uses units is more or less fine - I included it for as an option for people who disagree. I think the AI also actually plans out districts fairly well - it's placing cities without freshwater which causes the most problems.
     
  10. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    It's not just the AI. I do this, too. If I can fit an extra city in by arranging them off rivers, I'll happily do so. You can get to Pop 10 anyway, regardless of water access. Population above this is underwhelming. I'd rather the extra districts, earlier, that extra cities provide.
     
  11. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    To me the biggest issue is England (although perhaps really just for personal reasons). It's just unplayable right now.

    After that, my biggest issue is Military Tactics and Pikes / Spearmen, because this issue impacts multiple Civilizations (Norway, Japan, Georgia and, to a lesser extent, Greece and maybe Zulu). If they fixed MT and Pikes, that's 4 to 5 Civs that would become way, way more playable.

    And after that, I'd say the biggest issue is the rewards for settling on foreign continents, as it's currently not worth the effort, and buffing that would again help multiple civs (England, but also eg Spain).

    I actually think the AI is kind of okay (other than settling without Freshwater - which is rage inducing), although I've put in AI related options because I know people think differently.

    I'm also relaxed about air units and tier 3 buildings, because I feel improving the late game should be the focus of the next expansion. That said, I think Tier 3 buildings could be tweaked fairly easily (give them more mixed yields, regional affects and or % modifiers, eg perhaps Power Plants could give +1 or 2 Amenities regionally, as well as a production bonus; perhaps Research Labs could give +% production to projects). I also think coastal cities are okay.

    Otherwise, there are some other Civs I'd like to see rebalanced a little (eg Spain), and general AI improvements.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  12. Kinestic

    Kinestic Chieftain

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    My biggest one is probably the issue with military tactics. It’s awkard placement, plus being the location of 3 UU, as well as pikemen, means that these units are instantly less useful. It also hurts the Huey Tlatoani for the same reason, meaning that it’s indirect buff of more lakes from a patch or 2 ago has not had much of an impact.

    Also, both England and air units need some love. And probably ships as well. The AI may build ships now, but they certainly don’t build navies.
     
  13. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    Yes, I do this too sometimes. I can be quite sound strategically. But I don't think the AI ever does it for Strategic reasons (either that, or the AI is way, way smarter than I thought it was).
     
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  14. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    The "one off from freshwater" is definitely annoying, but not as gamebreaking to me. It does annoy me that they seem to place their harbors in the worst spots, though. Like, they'll have a coastal city where if they just put the harbor right next to the city it'd be a +3 adjacency, but no, they place it off the end of the coast for a +0 or +1. It's not like there's much else they can put on the water - harbor placement should be one of the simplest districts to worry about and they're pretty bad at that right now.
     
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  15. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am.

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    I couldn't pick any of the choices as it seems a bit premature to try and analyze what needs improvement based only on the current state of the game and patch notes, which can often be vague and incomplete. Better to wait a few days at least to see how all the individual changes affect the game holistically.
     
  16. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    @Laurana Kanan That's a fair comment, and I thought about that before I posted. But there a lot of known issues, and I think it's clear from the patch what hasn't been buffed or re-worked. I also think floating something sooner rather than later may be more likely to get FXS' attention (although, hey, what do I know?).
     
  17. _hero_

    _hero_ King

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    1. Balance. There's still plenty of Civs, wonders, and policies that are too weak or uninteresting.
    2. Keep improving AI. As a largely single player game, AI is of utmost importance for enjoyment of the game. It should be a focal point always.
    3. Expand on some of the newer systems. Now that religion has interplay with loyalty, I'd like to see a belief or 2 related to loyalty. Emergencies could be improved and expanded on, especially the AIs ability to succeed at them. Some governors have promotions that are really disappointing and could stand to be replaced with something interesting.
     
  18. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am.

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    I would argue, as with all Firaxis patch notes, that some things are clear, some are ambiguous, and some may not even be listed. Not to mention that we don't yet know how some changes may actually work by them selves, with other changes, or in conjunction with current game mechanisms. Some issues brought up may no longer need fixing, while new issues may arise.
    All I'm saying is that feedback from actual gameplay, rather than speculative analysis from the current game + patch notes only, would be more beneficial to Firaxis. Considering a new patch may be a long ways off, waiting a few days or even a week seems inconsequential.
     
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  19. Rosty K

    Rosty K King

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    Religious alliance. It should also block the religious combat and straight converting the allies' cities.
     
  20. kb27787

    kb27787 Deity

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    Seriously, how hard is it to give CS 5 starting warriors on par with deity AI? If anything they say instead that Fred will be even more of a jerk to CS...

    Give CS 5 starting warriors, a palace guard, and make them beeline for walls would be a good start... Also buff them to +3 city strength per envoy.
     

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