Power of rush buy, for all CE lovers.

[GreyFox]

Played 7 turns ... we have a decision to make.

First, open borders with Bismarck:



I set our warrior in the NE to wander, and he met (and killed) a barb. Elligible for woodsman I, not yet promoted.



Brennus also came asking for OB ... okay, one more CIv to spread religion.



Bismarck got the Great Wall, don't you hate the industrial civ.



I rushed the settler (seeing we have more than enough food, and we can't whip later, might as well do it now. None the sooner, as Mansa is there before us. I intended to go for the cows and rice, but we would be one turn too late



So it is either Jet's A site, or go for 1 tile south of copper if we want coastal.

I would go for Jet's A, but let's hear some comment (will continue in 2 hrs). By the way, we are also losing the northern sites to German ...



>>> Save for scrutiny <<<

 

[Mutineer]

Double post.

 

[Mutineer]

My advice would be do not settle non coastal city, as it will crump capital even more with out giving as any resources. May be Masta will not settle in place, but move, so try to move on coast. If Musta settle next turn,
Redirect settler north, to marked fouth site.
I would rather not settle on food.

 

[Jet]

I suggest A, same reasons I gave before.

 

[GreyFox]

EDIT: crossposted with Jet: The following is meant as question to Mutineer:

Let me clarify (as we are both none native-english speakers ): you are suggesting that if Mansa settled the rice + cows site, then we go for the cows + wine + crabs city all the way north?

I am not suggesting we settle on the rice (that is a worker on the rice, the settler is at Jet's A, 1N of rice). I am suggesting we settle 1S of copper.

--

 

[GreyFox]

Jet: why not 1S of copper or 1SE of copper? Your previous reason mainly was to make use of copper mine, which I agree is a valid point. But now that Mansa is going to take away our cows, wouldn't the two coastal sites I suggest be better than A?


Of-course, we could always do as Muntineer avised, and take that cow+rice city from Mansa later
--

 

[Jet]

This is what I said:

What I like about A is that it uses the Copper for our variant, has good production tiles and can steal food from Mecca (which has plenty,) and saves the Cows for the area of B, which otherwise doesn't have much food. I think that outweighs not being coastal, which to me is a very minor issue for an early production city with no seafood, Financial, Organized, Expansive, or Great Lighthouse; and when in the long term we have a lot of land to expand into, rather than being forced to make maximum use of coast tiles.

I didn't mean to give Copper as my main reason. I meant to give the combination of food, Copper, and other production tiles as my main reason.

About stifling Mecca: even if "A" stole both the flood plain and grass hill from Mecca, Mecca could still work (for example) Cow, Fish, 5 cottages, and 2 specialists (size 9), and still have a food surplus. After around Civil Service and/or Machinery, "A" could become self-sufficient and Mecca could reclaim its tiles. However, in the long term, I think it probably won't be important for Mecca to use every tile anyway, since it's not a very good site for Oxford, Ironworks, or Heroic Epic.

That's why "A" is still my suggestion.

 

[Mutineer]

Yes, My point is that I do not want cramped city and if Masta settle where ihe is we will take it from him later. I would better claim resources from north cite then.

 

[GreyFox]

Why do I get a feeling regretting asking for comments?

Will finish my remaining turns now. Stay tuned.

 

[Mutineer]

It is never a bad idea to ask for comments.

You have exsecutive power to make a decision, but to know avalible options and opinions is allways a good idea.

If there is disagreement I useally choise what I think rigth and put explanation for my choise.

 

[GreyFox]

What do you expect? Of-course Mansa settled:



I decided to go for Mutineer's advised site. Why? Because unlike the original coastal-city versus Jet's A choice, they are not mutually exclusive. Jet's A will still be available (it's gonna under our border soon) 20 turns later, but the north may get gobbled up by Bismarck.

Hence, Damascus:



I actually had to delayed settling for 2 turns because a barb is there, and I only had a warrior fortified. Don't want the barb to get lucky.

I just produced a chariot (after a temple) in Medina, its back to the half-finished granary. I suggest delaying the granary further and go for a barracks. I added a priest there, although next player can choose to to work on the quarry. The two workers there should then road towards Damascus.

Mecca finished a worker, and is at happy limit. I slowed growth by working on coastal tile and plains hill.

The world, as we know it:



>>> The Save (750BC) <<<

 

[sunrise089]

Lurker's comment: I can't tell for sure without opening the save, but if that northern copper is on a grassland tile, settling on the SW fur would provide a coastal city that could work the copper, cow, and two other furs, plus receive the small bonus for founding on a resource. I think that would also make a city legally producing 9 base hammers/turn.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Looks like I missed all the fun!

I like sunrise's suggestion, but I guess it would be costly in maintenance, and Bismarck might beat us to it. However, there would be a 'runners-up' spot of the ice tile for whale/copper.

Surprised MM cramped us: look at his score, he must have some rotten land down there. So what do we think. Prepare for war, or found another city (we could go for a rice/copper town, too), then prepare for war?

 

[Jet]

Strategically, I think we should capture at least Hamburg before Bismarks gets Elephants. Hamburg is important for its own Ivory and because it just founded Confucianism last turn!

I think we'll be in a better position to plan when we see tech trades and especially Iron. Alpha in 3. Hypothetically, we might get Math + IW + Sailing.

I think we could get Frankfurt and Hamburg with Swords, no? But maybe not more than that. Just guessing. My intuition is that it would be too inefficient to take a holy city with Walls with just Axemen, and so without Iron we would want to wait for Catapults. (In that case, hypothetically we might get Math in trade, then research Construction followed by Literature.)

My guess is that most likely, we won't have Iron in any spot that we either already possess or would want to settle. Maybe in the desert, but the current resource distribution already looks fairly dense, doesn't it?

My intuition is to do a 3 city Sword rush or a 4 city Axe+Cat rush. For now, this is all conjecture.

In other news, MM and Brennus are both in OR lol, so one of them might grab Christianity.

What's up with Brennus being Annoyed with Bismark (+1) and MM (+3), but Cautious with us (+1)?

 

[Mutineer]

Well, I can not look at save befor I come home, but by the look of it war with Bismarck is inevitable. Strategic plan as I can see it is:

Trade around, targeting Math, Iron working, sailing.
Prepare to declare on Bismarck, targeting holly city and may be he will kindly build Pyramids for us. I can not check save, but he does has stone and great wall.
A little problem as I see it, wait for somebody, preferably him, to build pyramids, or declare anyway? My turn set will be devoted to preparation to war, so question for next turn set. We do want to extort some tech from him as result of war.

Research wise I am in favor of literature, as we have marble for GL. That is not very conclusive with war preparation, so, priorities, priorities&#8230;

I do not want to trade Monarchy yet, as if some one sell AI it next thin AI research is Feodalism and run around with Longbows.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I don't see any reason to wait for it to be built before declaring; after all he might well complete it during our attack.

What do we attack with? Melee only, or wait for cats?

 

[Mutineer]

a Few notes. Capital does not grow and does not work best ties, in the same time we are in monarchy and have a lot warriors around and sitting in Meduna, which has a lot of happiness.
I really advice people befor playing check eveyrhting, which civic we are in, which tech we know, what our plan befor start to playing.

Reconfigure capital for max grow, move warriors in direction of capital.
Redirected exploring warriors back to capital and send Chariot exploring.

Well discover alphavit, got Math, iron working, Monotheism(Good for LB Theology when we get GP and for civic), sailing in trade. Did not traded Monarchy, but Brenus discover it himself.

Now we need to hurry, as AI get LB soon.
Build baraks and small army of axes. Enoght to take one city.
I would advice to take city near Meduna, as nearest and having Iron.
Bismark has a lot of Iron.

Workes that sit around a re testy to, because we still have lot to improve. Note this archer/chariot pair, need to kill it first, or it can cause greef.




Please, play 10 turns now on.

Mutineer -
ungy - Up Now
Swiss Pauli- Warming up
Jet -
GrayFox -

 

[ungy]

I'm still out of town w/o civ. Need another skip but back in 2 days for a week then gone again a week. W/O civ cannot give useful comments but glad to see game moving nicely.

 

[Snaaty]

Lukers Question:


@ Mutineer:

You mentioned earlier in this thread, that some techs like pottery or animal husbandry get cheaper, when you have ALL prerequisist (not just those you need, but ALL alternatives).

How much cheaper do they get??? Is this written somewhere, or is this simply something you know/observed???

I didn´t know that... ...thanks for your answer in advance

 

[Mutineer]

There was Article in strategy section, describing research rules.
Somethign like Research explained? Long time ago, but search should find it.
Effect I do not remember execly, but about 20% per additional prerequisite.

Effect is resonably big if prerequisite is cheap and tech mach more expencive.

Early examples: Fishing and pottery.

Useally fishing is very cheap, as every one knows it, so, at the end fishing- pottery take only about 2 turns longer then strigth pottery.

Simular hunting- animal hasbentry.

Game wize I advice to build a bit more units, may be from overflow of shipping library in capital and declare and take Iron city form germany.

Mutineer -
ungy - skeep
Swiss Pauli- Up now.
Jet -
GrayFox -