Power of rush buy, for all CE lovers.

Yup of-course, as posted yesterday:

Got it for tomorrow ... are we going to finish off Bismarck, or stop and regroup after Berlin?

So, on with the game.

First order of business is to get out of Slavery, and since we are warring, get out of OB into Theocracy as well (as Ungy agreed too).



Berlin is ours, after 4 losses.

Axeman promoted: City Raider I
While attacking in German territory at Berlin, Axeman loses to: German Archer (0.30/3) (Prob Victory: 20.7%)
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
While attacking in German territory at Berlin, Axeman defeats (3.90/5): German Archer (Prob Victory: 20.7%)
Axeman promoted: City Raider I
While attacking in German territory at Berlin, Axeman loses to: German Swordsman (3.96/6) (Prob Victory: 24.7%)
While attacking in German territory at Berlin, Axeman loses to: German Spearman (2.40/4) (Prob Victory: 63.5%)
While attacking in German territory at Berlin, Hamburger Helper (Axeman) defeats (3.40/5): German Catapult (Prob Victory: 89.2%)
While attacking in German territory at Berlin, Hamburger Hero (Axeman) defeats (3.40/5): German Swordsman (Prob Victory: 99.0%)
While attacking in German territory at Berlin, Spearman loses to: German Spearman (0.24/4) (Prob Victory: 68.0%)
While attacking in German territory at Berlin, Spearman defeats (4.00/4): German Archer (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
While attacking in German territory at Berlin, Spearman defeats (4.00/4): German Spearman (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
Confucianism has spread: Berlin
Captured Berlin (Bismarck)
Berlin begins: Barracks (50 turns)



We got a general out of this ... after much consideration, decided to go for warlords unit. #1, we have a lot of warriors. #2: we do not have a clear prod powerhouse to warrant a MI or military academy.



Hence next player will now have a warrior warlord traveling eastward. I have yet promoted/upgraded him ... so do it at your convenience.

After some healing, our forces are at Stuttgart, with our shining new catapults.



The odds are not very good, so perhaps you want to wait for phants.

In the other non-war related news, we open bordered with Brennus.



And Mansa continues to provide us with future cities:



We had a scientist in my last turn, he can lightbulb Philosophy (Taoism not founded yet), or build an academy.



>>> The Save (375AD) <<<
 
Very encouraging progress. Mansa must have some dreadful lands; that city's a long way from home.
 
Nice going getting Berlin.

I would build the academy with the GS. We don't have major trade opportunities and Mecca is pretty strong science wise.

We need to decide where we are going with Bismark. If we try to finish him off, then we should be building units--and no axemen, only cats and jumbos.
Problem with Stuttgart is that it is marginal. We keep it but it's not too good.
The city to the south, on the other hand, is huge. Our forces are unfortunately split--I think it is better to pass on Stuttgart and send the forces to Munich along with the reinforcements en route.

I would not have used the GG that way--I'm curious how it will work out. I usually just use them for medic3 chariot or settle. In any case, I think there was no need to attach --always better to keep options open near the end of a set.

Note that MM has Feud.
 
I am away again Fri for a week (but then should be around to game's completion). Mutineer I could switch with you and take the next set of turns, or if you can play by tomorrow I can get a set in before I go.
 
Please take it. I am extrimelly bisy right now, preventing me to even look on save. I am in favor of Philosofy. Win BY Culture? But seriously, if we take Taoism AI will not LB Philosofy, so it will take longer to get arount to liberalism.
 
Even with out variant Dramma would be better.

The benefits of Drama that I can see are the following.
  1. The culture slider is powerful at low population, low happy, and/or at war.
  2. We could use Drama in a trade
  3. We could get CoL from Bismark in a peace deal. (I think to do that we would have to beat him pretty hard, and/or partially research it ourselves, and/or make peace fairly soon, so that we didn't waste time researching something we didn't want... but I concede that it's possible.)
Is that your reasoning?

Also, what would you have researched after Drama? Part of the reason I researched Code of Laws was to open up Civil Service, which would clearly be useful to us.
 
I agree that Stuttgart is a keeper, but that it might be a bit expensive right now, economically. I'm not sure.

We have an opportunity to trade our Sheep for Mansa's Clams, and in 5 turns hook up Hamburg's Sheep as a replacement.

-----------------

Here is a possible plan for research.

Build an Academy now. Research CS, then Paper. In the next 15 to 20 turns we can do all of the following:
  • finish CS and Paper
  • build the National Epic
  • birth another Great Scientist
Then bulb Philo, switch to Pacifism, and set the science slider to zero.

We'd then have the NE and at least 4 regular scientists in Mecca.
( 6*3 (scientist) + 2 (GL) + 1 (NE) ) * 300% (NE + Pacifism) = 63 GPP.
It would be 6 turns for the fourth great person: 400 / 63 = 6.3.
And 8 turns for the fifth: 500 / 63 = 7.9.

With 4 scientists and no tricks we would have a 77% chance (7/8 squared) of getting two great scientists. With tricks (build Lighthouse, farm over the unworked grass cottage, abuse starvation) we could run more scientists and increase that chance a bit.

Then (hopefully) double-bulb Education, and research Liberalism at 100% science.

I think this may be the best overall balance between
  • delayed Pacifism
  • long term benefit
  • timely Liberalism
Of course, a Nationalism slingshot would propel us into the "no mines" era.

One disadvantage would be what Mutineer said: an AI getting Liberalism faster by lightbulbing Philosophy himself.

I think the diplomatic effect of us getting Taoism versus an AI are neutral, overall.
 
OK--I will play tomorrow--posting a few thoughts:

But seriously, if we take Taoism AI will not LB Philosofy, so it will take longer to get arount to liberalism.
This is a good point. However, points in favor of the academy are:
1. most of our research comes from Mecca. We increase our research I think around 20% or so with the academy.

2. We don't need to found Tao--actually I think it's better strategically not to.

3. Pacifism not great here. I'd rather stay in theo and boost the war effort.

This leaves me up in the air a bit. My guess is better to lightbulb--I think that would make us huge favorite to win lib but like to hear other comments.

I will continue war and switch to building units. Divert troops from Stuttgart to Munich. Stuttgart is too well defended for how marginal it is. Munich is huge.

What to do with the warlord unit? I would normally only build medic 3 chariot, but here we have warrior. I'm inclined to give it cr3 and upgrade to axe. Maybe give leadership as well. Partially to see how useful it is but again would like comments.

Trade: we can trade with Brennus for HBR, Cal, and his 190gold. We have 4 techs on him--I would be inclined to sell him lit for the 190 and wait on the others as we are about to capture stonehenge and have no immediate need for calender. Risk is he gets bribed into war w/us but I think worth the gamble.
I'll do the sheep-clam trade.
 
Pre-post edit: I can see Ungy has posted whilst I've been typing, but I think my comments are still valid...

I'd lightbulb Taoism. Now that we control both of the religions on our island, we can add the third to start manipulating the diplomatic game to our advantage (bearing in mind were SPI).

As we're in Caste Sytem, we could also use Pacifism once we're done with troop builds for a while, and once our economy is robust enough to handle the extra military support costs.

The AI delaying its own research of Pacifism will help us get to Liberalism first.
 
Having Medic III on a Melee unit is not the end of the world. I'd have no strong objection to a CR3 Axe, which would have its own utility, but in a challenging SG I'd suggest doing whatever you think is best for victory.

I claim that Stuttgart is actually poorly defended, even compared to its value. It would just need a suicide Cat to weaken the CG2 Archer. It has no city defense bonus and the other two defenders are unpromoted.

I agree that Stuttgart marginal and in question for the short term. But except for the distance from Mecca, it's no worse than Damascus. In the short term it would claim Fur and many chop forests, and in the long term it would max out at for example size 12, with 5 grass cottages, 2 plains cottages, plains cow, plains stone, 1 Biology grass farm, 2 desert windmills. (Make that size 13; it could add a non-irrigated Biology plains farm.)
 
OK here goes.

I bulb phil with the GS. Tao in Berlin. Don't take pacifism.

I decide to bypass Stuttgart for now. While that may seem inefficient, I don't think the current force is sufficient to take it. We are 4 on 3 and our first attack is only 28%. So could work but might fail and even if successful will deplete our force. Stuttgart also is not much of a threat.
I head to Munich with our reinforcements.

Change temple in Mecca to cat.
trade MM sheep for clam. sell lit to Brennus for 190, run research at 100%.

IBT Brennus asks for OR..hmm. I want good relations with him so I take it. We'll switch back in 5 turns when we take beaur.

400 go back to temple in Mecca, rearrange some builds so units will hit under theo.

425 spread hindu in Berlin. Trade cow to Brennus for 6 GPT.

450 moving forces up.

475 German axe leaves Frankfurt. Bad news, Bis has LB. Munich is 2LB, axe, spear. I make warrior a medic 3.
IBT Mali asks for Phil.

500 AD CS in. must wait one turn for rev. Research paper at 0%.

520 We take Beau and theo. Relations with Brennus drop to cautious.

540 Munich reduced.
IBT MM takes Beau.

560 our char kills German axe near Frankfurt. Geman cat near Berlin. We attack Munich. 4 cats, 3 axe, 1 jumbo, vs. 2LB (1 CG1), axe, spear.
1st cat dies does little damage.
2nd cat wins at 35%
Hamburger hero wins at 84%
axe wins at 90%, 99.9
so we only lose 1 cat.
we plunder 226 and pick up stonehenge.

580 head down to Dortmund--we should attack or bypass depending on strength.

600 AD jumbo kills German cat near Berlin. Dortmund is very weak--sword and spear. Next player may very well go for it with our 3 units there next turn.
Rice hooked up.

I leave part of the turn for next player in case we want to shift gears.
Unfortunately I lose the trading opportunity with Brennus for calender--I guess I should have taken it. Seemed we had time and then lost it. Brennus will only give 110g of his 130g for construction--so he must be almost there.
So I sell it for the 110.
 
save is here:

I would suggest we plan our future direction more closely--where we want to put national wonders, what VC, etc.
 
sorry for delay. Typhon come again to Japan and we had some power cuts and othe rinconviniences. I will try to play tomorrow.
 
OK, due to war and low happiness cap our cities unhappy and do not grow.
MM our cities to grow.
Set research to Dramma, at 100%.(3 turns)
Start to gradially switch from mil production to infrustructure.
Redirect our armies south and took 2 germans cities.
In a mean time Research Dramma-Archery(1turn at 0%)-
Set culture slider to 10% to compencate for unhappiness.
Order theaters allmost everywhere.
Research archery-Harbors(orgot name of tech).
Traded Masta
Dramma+ harbors = mettalocasting
I keep monopoly of philosofy, so we can delay liberalism as mach as posible.

Revolted to orgonised religion.
Peace with Bismark for Feodalism.
His next city will take a long time to move our army to. Army moved after Barbarian city. I advice to keep, 2 calendar resources + hourses in 3rd circle.
Traded Brenus
Mettalcasting + dramma= calendar+ HBR
Research set to Nationalism. I am for early start on Taj Maxal and taking Representation from liberalism. Keep GS if we get one, for LB of Education.

Advice:
Revolt to serfdom in 3 turns, we have a lots of ties to improve and not enogth workers.
Cancel and renegotiat traded with Brenus. We can get incence and his gpt for Ivory.
 

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After some thinking I think we should not have any wars untill we settle in strong rush buy. Now priority should be economic development, with target of Nationalism (Set Taj Maxal in capital, a our bets production city with burocracy. Use Golden age to rush to liberalism and take Representation from it and run to democracy. We could trade carrefully for everything else we need.
 
It's nice to see the gems in Mecca. :gold:

With Nationalism started, I think we're on track for Liberalism around 1200 with a double Education bulb, but we'll probably need more GPPs to get the bulb early enough.

I can see gradually building Elephants now and taking out Brennus with Cavalry later. Bismark, we'll have to see when it's convenient, but I agree there's no rush - except to grab the Silver!

How about Heroic Epic in Hamburg? Soon it will be our best production city. That also makes it the best city for the Taj Mahal.

In the long term, I suggest that Mansa would be useful as a happy vassal. It might be prudent to make him happy and to trade a military resource to him.
 
Ten quiet builder turns, aside from this trivial peace of military action:




The city was starving anyway...





Proof that the new patch is working:





We shouldn't consider Mansa as a vassal: he's annoyed with us, and he's in Brennus bad books. The Celts are 2nd in power.

Once Mecca builds its forge (and we temporarily workshop the plains tile) then it will have the most hammers for Taj. We shouldn't consider ex-Deutschland for it because of motherland unhapiness problem (now and in the medium term).

Tyco Brahe was born 3 turns ago (I woke him for the handover). As to trades, we now have incense, but I'm keeping the cow deal going as Bren should have his connected by now.

Despite his awful land, Mansa is teching nicely. Once Taj is done, we should be able to snag some techs for Nationalism.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/96651/Saladin_Rushbuy_AD-1000.CivWarlordsSave
 
Got it for late tonight or tomorrow.

I suggested we consider a friendly vassal relationship with Mansa in the long term, by which I meant by the time we've taken over our continent. However in the last turn set we accumulated another -2 with Mansa, while Brennus rose to Friendly. So for safety I do think now it's more important to keep Brennus at Friendly than to do anything special to cultivate a relationship with Mansa. However, I still propose to trade Iron or Ivory to Mansa; otherwise I'm concerned that he's too vulnerable to Brennus.

About the Taj Mahal,
  1. Mecca and Hamburg are very close:
    • Mecca with no extra production: 11 * 1.5 = 17
    • with mine and workshop: 16 * 1.5 = 24
    • Hamburg: currently 16
    • switch cottage to plains farm: 17
    • grow and add grass mine (4 turns): 20
    • grow and add plains mine (10 turns after that): 24
  2. There's a rules question about whether after Nationalism Mecca is temporarily allowed to be one of the two cities that runs mines, since we haven't built the HE or IW there, nor do we intend to. Can you please clarify the rule, Mutineer?
  3. All things being equal, Mecca is better without the Artist source.
  4. I think we'd benefit more from additional infrastructure in Mecca than in Hamburg.
I propose to try to settle the Silver in my turn set. 1 south of the Silver, or on the Silver to get the Whales in the third ring, both look like good spots.
 
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