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[GS] Power Ranking the Civs (Gathering Storm)

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by The googles do nothing, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Shaka is a joke, Impi’s are weak.
    You can play with both and win with both but Genghy is faster and the big difference is if he attacks me I am scared, but if Shaka attacks me it is a joke.
     
  2. Weraptor

    Weraptor Chieftain

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    AI Skaha is weaker than AI Genghis with Horses and good tech. Player Shaka is scary.
     
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  3. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    I might be splitting hairs, but I find the problem with IZs isn't that they're hard to place - its that even a well placed one gives you very little production. A "good" IZ is maybe +5 - just pitiful. And you're building it miles from anything else, so it can't boost other districts.

    Netherlands IZ is quite good. City Centre, IZ and campus or theater triangle. With a river and a few mines, I have a +4-5 IZ. Still not great, but my IZ is also working to give me a +3 Campus or Theatre. So, not trash.

    Honestly, Red Beard's Hansa usually doesn't feel powerful. It more feels like he has an IZ that's at what the base level should be. It's only if you Sostratus-ify your Hansa that it starts getting silly. (Sorry @Sostratus , I've made you a verb.)
     
  4. Sostratus

    Sostratus Warlord

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    *Coughs in black lung* coal plants *cough* :)

    +15 is just a fun thing I did. It's far more advisable (and easier) to just work with compact chunks of 3-4 cities at a time, where you have huge flexibility in terrain and you can get the average base adjacency over 6 pretty easily, without any resources at all (which just push it higher.)
    See my signature for a detailed visual guide. Note that the triangle, ring, and crescent layouts all have average adjacency for the 3 hansas of +6. It's not necessarily obvious and I had to sit down and think for a bit when I first realized the CH boost stacks.
    In most cases it's not that having a +6 Hansa is so much better than having a +6 IZ. It's that you can build a +6 Hansa in every single city no matter what the terrain is.
     
  5. Arilian

    Arilian Chieftain

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    That is why you play Canada, and he is not attacking you. The most OP civ for a peacefuly builder like me!
     
  6. kb27787

    kb27787 Chieftain

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    I see... so you are supposed to put Hansa away from the city center and rely on another city's CH to make it strong... (I had been previously doing a separate triangle with city center and CH with each city... if I'm lucky I might get one resource for an additional +1... TBH that felt rather underwhelming as the hansas are quite useless until the CHs are up so you cannot use the hansa production to speed up the CH... in the end I just skipped Hansa entirely in some cities and went straight for the TS/CH instead).

    But I guess this means Germany rarely spaces their cities 7 tiles apart then... (so they wont care much for growing tall since you run on of tiles to work real fast). The new coal power plants and vertical integration (which relies on your cities being tightly clustered to begin with) might be good for Germany for SV then as they can get an ungodly amount of production on paper (as long as they have the coal). But, really, it only works for the city Magnus is in so not sure how useful it would be when people go multiple spaceports, or use royal society.

    I'm going to have to try a game with them in GS one of these days. Tightly clustered cities also means one single hurricane/storm/drought, etc. can wipe multiple cities out in one go.
     
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  7. Sostratus

    Sostratus Warlord

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    Well, coal plants provide their production boost whether they are burning coal or not, and whether you even have coal or not. By comparison, the factory is minor. Consider that 1 adjacency = 4 production with craftsmen and a coal plant.
    One of the layouts in my sig demonstrates a 4 city pattern to get 1 city to a guaranteed +11. That's +44 production for that city (22 Hansa, 22 coal pant) right there. You still have mines to work.

    Yes. Although, the chance of any one area being hit is small. The real upside is that all of your cities can be very productive, and you've a ton of them packed into the same area, so there's much more risk mitigation than having one of your few big cities get hit under a "7 tile spacing" style strategy. I find that Mali, whom these same layouts also work for, are far more vulnerable because of how prevalent dust storms are especially late game; whereas German terrain is usually only vulnerable to the odd tornado. (Plus with all that production, rebuilding is quite fast.)
     
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  8. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Max spacing is a bad idea anyways. Until neighborhoods, that simply isn't even a thing besides you need pop 20+ to work 3rd ring tiles and you're already defaulting to working the best tiles. Working a few extra flat tiles isn't going to matter and it just means less campuses, or victory districts and much more amenity issues.

    The game heavily favors near-ICS, and the occasional disaster is just more of an inconvenience anyways.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  9. Attakuiu

    Attakuiu Chieftain

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    Why phoenicia is rank C ? I think it isn't so bad. With his ability you can spam many settlers in few turns than the rest of civ..
     
  10. Troy Bruckner

    Troy Bruckner Chieftain

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    If you don't like Phoenicia being C then move them to D because they are weak. :p

    The German Hanseatic clusters have another big advantage in that one or two spies can protect the cluster. It really doesn't matter how far you are advanced in tech if you don't have the production output to build or buy it. Because of this Korea needs to be dropped down a rank or two.
     
  11. Ziad

    Ziad Warlord

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    Because people vote based on best case scenarios rather than general experiences.

    Phoenicia is consistently good, flexible, and rich on any map that has remotely any coast.

    Of course it's understandable why people can view it this way. Phoenicia's strengths aren't immediately obvious.

    • Early uniques means easy science golden ages (supplementing a Cothon rush)
    • Bireme rushes can secure coastal cities pretty easily that allow you to later expand your empire with your settler spam.
    • 100% loyalty means you can delay settlements on your base continent OR forward settle others.
    • Early Cothons means early coastal trade routes means tons of early gold.
    • A smart capital swap can mean tons of additional yields through Colonial policies.

    Snowball from there. They are balanced with all this in mind.

    Bonus: Prettiest UD and coastal cities are gorgeous AF so eye candy galore.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
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  12. kb27787

    kb27787 Chieftain

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    Strange how our philosophies are almost opposite...

    My initial thought was that the game heavily favors chopping rather than sustained production, (hence why a lot of people say IZs are bad) so spaced cities means maximum number of tiles per city (and hence maximum theoretical chops for the culture investment). This is why I favor heavy culture generation a lot; you save on gold/production because you get more chops/harvests.

    ICS is the opposite: maximum number of cities in theoretical space (means you have the same amount of chops, but more cities that have to share the resources). I guess it means maximum districts and GPP for the space you are able to claim though... (and also your zoos and stadiums maybe a bit better, but those buildings come so late anyway... the zoo in particular gives science bonuses to marsh/rainforest only for the city that owns it and not for the cities in range, hence you could argue a zoo is still worth it for tall, isolated cities). This would've been significantly stronger back in the days where vertical integration was the "default" for every city, but now...
     
  13. Sostratus

    Sostratus Warlord

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    This is why it's so good. You can have more campuses, more theaters, more commercial hubs... Since a campus is a vastly more efficient source of science than pop, etc, this is why it works. IZs are bad not because production is bad but because normal IZs are usually quite inefficient at providing more production to a city vs building more mines, etc. Contrarily, the Hansa is a very cheap source of production, hence the city spam to spam more of them. The civs that want to space cities a bit are those like Aussie who have a lot of power coming from tile improvements (especially when adjacency is involved.)
     
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  14. Attakuiu

    Attakuiu Chieftain

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    I totally agree. Maybe move capital isn't immediate because it's expensive, but the rest of the bonuses is good
     
  15. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    On a more basic level, say for a culture win you can have more great work slots the more cities you have. You can never really chop out more of those except for some wonders, but the wonders often do not carry many spaces.

    The other thing is that the t1 buildings (cept workshops lel) have a much better value for production. Even shrines are pretty cheap for what they do.
     
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  16. orasis

    orasis Chieftain Supporter

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    Yeah... when playing against the AI Canada's bonus is pretty strong. In multiplayer it's weak. Sort of like Shaka and Genghis. The latter is far more dangerous with the AI but the former much more dangerous in the hands of a human. Extremely early corps are game changing.
     
  17. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

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    and it's this reason I feel Scotland is better than Korea for science victory. Not to mention I can get more raw science from Scotland. I've had games where I had more production with Scotland than Germany, though those weren't games I had +15/30 Hansas and that was before GS and coal plants were a thing.
     
  18. Pietato

    Pietato Warlord

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    Nope, still Korea.
     
  19. Jkchart

    Jkchart Chieftain

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    Genghis is ABSOLUTELY S tier. One of the best designed civs thematically, game-play-wise, in every category. Mongolia is amazing.
     
  20. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Chieftain

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    Another lame thing about industrial zones is that you’d want to build them in cities that don’t have many hills for mines or don’t have quarries. You know, so you can actually get the city to have decent production.

    But you can’t do that. They get their production from mines and quarries. So you can only build them in cities which are already fine in production.

    Brilliant.
     
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