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[GS] Power Ranking the Civs (Gathering Storm)

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by The googles do nothing, Feb 20, 2019.

  1. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    A lot of the IZ weakness comes from people not running craftsmen. Not that it's a great idea to run the card on high difficulty anyways, but if you do run it then they are not nearly so bad, esp compared to other districts you give 1 card of support to.
    I think Netherlands' and japan's adjacency abilities combo really well with coal plants. I mean the dutch river bonus translates into +8 production total with a coal plant+craftsmen. Japan obviously can exploit a lot of things, and you need the Electronics factories to build the coal plants; +4 culture in a bunch of cities isn't the worst thing.
    In a sick sort of way, since submerged tiles count as water, you can polderize them. Thus, the dutch have every incentive to tactically flood things for their gain. We aren't going to talk about Hansas again because I think I've proved my point with them before.

    I think WotW suffers from coming online so late and just not being a productive ability. It doesn't help you do things faster. The other IZ users get beefy power spikes from coal plants because they have high adjacency IZs. England just gets +2 from the factory. I mean if they even had +100% towards IZ buildings, that would be nice. (See how I differentiated them from germany/japan there?) Even adding that, I would still bump the powered building bonus to like, +4.

    I really wish they would add something like this. I'm not sure if the "connected to capital" functionality exists in 6 like it did in 5, but having some kind of domestic economic benefit for rails would be nice. I like the mobility, but they only affect foreign trade gold, and the graphics are currently atrocious. :(
     
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  2. Jewman

    Jewman Prince

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    Of the games I've played Ive won with inca, sweden, hungary, phoenicia and mali and played with all the others except canada.

    S Tier:
    Inca: ive played a bunch of inca games but only finished one. My only problem with them is that sometimes you get off to such a massive advantage early on that it takes the fun out of game lol. Easily my favorite civ ever.

    Hungary: I played one game and chain levied pretty much as soon as soon as I hit iron working until I won a domination victory on T144, im not a fast win type of player but I couldn't resist how easy it was to roll over the AI with ultra fast levied armies. My core cities were very developed due to river bonuses as well.

    Maori: I'm gonna go ahead and say the bad spawns do NOT take away from the good spawns. I mean you literally just need a few trees nearby and you can start spawning settlers right away and sending them anywhere and you can be as much as a jerk as you wanna be because your naval advantage/toas. The thing i've found in the 3-5 maori starts I've played is that not only are average or bad starts easy to overcome, you can actually get extremely good starts more often than not. Getting forced into early defensive war into absorbing your neighbor can give you a big advantage all game, but everyone knows that.

    A Tier:
    Sweden: Cultural victory sleepwalking. Open air museum is OP. Carolean is also cool, but I thought it would be a lot stronger than it was. Maybe a great general and more promotions sends them over the top but freshly built caroleans for a renaissance war was a bit underwhelming.

    Mali: Sure I've never had the power to do so much with so little effort as I did in my Mali playthrough, but I had to go through a few tough games first to get the dream setup. As everyone has said, if you get the dream start they are unstoppable. But the bad starts do matter in this case, more often than not you will NOT get the dream start, couple that with if you have aggressive neighbors you're in trouble.

    B Tier:

    Phoenicia: I'm torn about. On the one hand settler spam is incredible good. The harbors are solid and you end up with a pretty big income without trying too hard. On the other hand, they didn't feel particularly unique and their bonuses didn't feel impactful. Having said that, in my one playthrough all these weird parts joined into a well oiled naval empire that was aggressively settling as it conquered and generating massive revenue. Could belong in C tier, but they felt strong when I played them.

    C Tier:
    Ottomans: They are probably better than C tier but I did not get a good game with them and got spanked early on even with ibrahims bonuses. Can't give them a fair grade but I suspect they are on the weaker side of the other GS civs.

    D Tier:
    Freleanor/Eleanor: Haven't finished playing with them and I'm sure I'll win an early CV and flip a bunch of civs but that's just from min/maxing hard not so much their bonuses. Catering your entire gameplan to one strategy, especially when its as obscure a strategy as city flipping, is not a recipe for a very good civ. I do like them so far tho.

    Canada Tier: Canada, no interest in even playing them.
     
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  3. Liegence

    Liegence Warlord

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    I feel like people are underestimating Dido as a war civ. AI cannot handle Biremes, and loyalty poses you no issue. You can literally snatch every coastal city on your continent, and when you’re done there just move your cap to the next...
     
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  4. Sostratus

    Sostratus Deity

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    Some games you start with a mountain or two in visual range. Not ideal but not terrible. It's not like the terrace farm's AQ/fresh water bonuses are bad. They are amazing.
    But some games you start in a big winding mountain river valley and you just go ape. I love those starts. Gimme my snaky fractal mountains!
     
  5. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    And once you have the coastal cities, use trade routes to grow them back up and flip the ones on the interior.
     
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  6. acluewithout

    acluewithout Deity

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    Pax B is fine as it is, honestly. It’s in an okay place, and I’ve found it’s usually a few trade routes each game (but not always) and the free boats are fine. If England is going to shine,mits now all about WotW and RNDs.

    But yeah. WotW is weak and the RND could probably be buffed too.

    But it’s all a bit of a mess anyway because resources, power and colonization mechanics (and a few others) generally are a bit undercooked. If these mechanics worked better, England would be better, although the power buff from WotW would maybe still suck.

    Agreed.

    Yeah, I’m going to try the Craftsman Card, but I’ll wait until the next patch. Hopefully we’ll get some further buffs to the IZ, Workshop and Factories and your idea will be twice as good!
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2019
  7. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    I haven't tried new Vickie yet, but it seems to me that getting free stuff for settling on foreign continents may work best on island plate maps.
     
  8. Leucarum

    Leucarum King

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    Dido is odd. It's like they decided to simultaneously make a fixed version of Norway (early naval offence civ) and England (settle everywhere civ), and while she outdoes both of them, she's still in the bottom middle of the pack...
     
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  9. LoneDragon

    LoneDragon Warlord

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    Just started my second game. Does Dido not have coastal start bias? I didn't like my first start so I restarted...and had to restart 4 more times before I saw coast again.
     
  10. AsparustheSaiyan

    AsparustheSaiyan Chieftain

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    The IZ needs buffing? May I ask what is wrong with it? I thought it was a high priority district to build at one point.
     
  11. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Idea Fountain

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    Currently playing my third game of the XPac. Rolled China this time.

    Definitely still an A Tier Civ for me, maybe S-tier? First Emperor + Serfdom + Liang + Pyramids is crazy good. Managed to snag Stonehenge, Artemis, Pyramids and Library in the SAME city. Rushed Petra in a city with terrible growth and prod. Had a horrible start, sandwiched between flat desert and tundra but I'm booming on the backs of my Wonder advantages.

    With new World Wonders such as the Great Bath and Machu Pichu being highly competitive, it defo makes China's ability to rush these wonders stronger too.

    The early Canals have had no impact on my game so far, but perhaps I'll find use for them before I discover Steam Power.

    Having played her on Continents, I can definitely say she's straight up good on Island Plates. Victoria upgraded from a mediocre expansionist leader to a competent naval leader. Free Naval units from any RND is amazing, mustering a large navy is child's play. Only Harald and Gitarja have her beat in that regard. I haven't checked whether her ability stacks with Venetian Arsenal, but I don't think it does. Regardless, situationally powerful imo. Fractal should also be a really good map for her. Victoria can rush Canals and Dams with military engineers, which should allow her to build large navies in inland ports which she then can release into the open sea.

    Of course on Continents, Vicky's naval focus makes her upper F tier at best. It's even worse on Pangaea. England are supposed to be late boomers but their advantages are too weak to really make a difference. If you play well, you should already be well underway to win the game by the time WotW kicks in...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2019
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  12. IvoryPavane

    IvoryPavane Prince

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    So I had a really solid chat with my Multiplayer circle over the weekend and we put our thoughts together based on 12 games we've played as a group since GS came out.

    I think it's important for a "tiering" system to have context, considering how hugely subjective the subject is. So for reference, this is based purely on the opinions of 8 people and our Multiplayer experiences from only 12 games, it holds no baring for AI matches, nor does it take into account the Civ's flavour/music etc.

    Too strong

    Maori - Overtuned. And ironically, possibly due to the conservative streak that Firaxis has that tends to undertune other Civs. It's possible they thought the radical start would disadvantage the Maori to the point where they needed substantial perks but it's possibly too much. Mana has more in it than some Vanilla Civ's entire kit. He is quite vulnerable early (including one hilarious match where his settler was blown up by a storm). but if he can land and dig in, he is STRONG

    Very Strong

    Hungary - His ability is odd because it's either RIDICULOUS and unstoppable, or completely inconsequential. He suffers more in MP as people are wiser to his tricks and save envoys for his assault. However, his mere presences means that you need to be conservative with city states and play the game more warily in general, while he can freely and quickly build his infrastructure, which is why we think he is still pretty strong

    Strong

    Phonecia - Dido is nasty, she comes out the gate quicker than you would expect and her expansion is rapid. She is the richest Civ in the first two eras and if you are next to her you will have a city plopped next to you. Invulnerable Quadriemes and a Coastal city makes invading her tougher as you only have a few tiles to safely attack her from. She has a fast open game, and a ridiculous end game, but she has a middle lull where she is trying to expand where she can be vulnerable if she spreads too thin

    Kristina - The theming bonus is very solid and OAM & Queens Biblio is very solid/ Kristina can be quite remote and still be effective, which is irritating as an opponent but effective when you are playing as her. The Caroleons were slightly underwhelming, I thought they would be more fearsome when they appeared (similar to Garde Imperiale, which is very strong at first appearance), but they are still a solid UU. She's just solid, if a little unexciting?

    Ottomans - They can be fearful warmongers but their war bonuses come online slightly late, so you can prepare for him. The Janissary is a wretched unit to go up against (sorry my bias, it's really strong haha!). When he starts taking cities down, he holds them well and it's harder to get them back. Also Ibrahim can be quite a foil to Dido and Eleanor shenanigans, and the combat bonus is not to be underestimated. He's good.

    Good

    Inca - I think the Inca is much stronger against the AI than in MP. Their UU is quite easy to keep in ZOC and vulnerable to attack, their mountain ranges are amazing but leave them fairly vulnerable if placed improperly, their cities are incredible but they rely on mountains which means where they are going to be predictable, and generally wide is better than tall (and all of these things are what make it premier against the AI, but we haven't seen it play out in MP)

    Mali - I think the Mali's potential is probably the strongest of all these Civ's but in MP he just never gets there. He got a Desert start in less than 20% of our games, and the production malus REALLY hurts when he doesn't have the food/faith from the desert. Additionally, being slower to put up a military in the early eras makes him quite vulnerable, but he can absolutely rip a new one if he gets going

    Eleanor France - Not to be underestimated, you need to be very careful with war when she is nearby. Taking another city or city state when she is around will almost always flip to her. However, this tends to mean people start with her so she needs to build a sizeable defence, which slows down her cultural game

    Needs help

    Canada - I think everything that needs to be said is being said, the big difference is that their cities tend to be razed instead of kept because they are tundra. I suspect they are quite scary later on but they rarely made it there, sadly.

    Eleanor England - There's a bit of a disconnect with the abilities here, and the RND seems much uglier without Pax Britannica...

    I really think all the Civ's are pretty great to be honest, but we all agreed Canada could use a little love.

    Again, this is not authoritative (at all lol) as we've only scratched the surface of the game. Additionally, we are not "uber" players or anything. We've all beaten deity but we are far from optimal. But I thought it would be fun to share our thoughts :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
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  13. OmegaDestroyer

    OmegaDestroyer King

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    I am currently lacking in patience to play Sweden. It's another late-start civ that has a tedious early game. Feels like a chore after playing the Maori.

    Speaking of the Maori, I'd put the civ right up there with the Inca and Hungary as absolutely bananas. It is so strong.
     
  14. AsparustheSaiyan

    AsparustheSaiyan Chieftain

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    What about the vanilla and R&F civs? What would anyone rank them in GS?
     
  15. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Prince

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    I’m not sure, but I enjoyed my last game as China despite not getting much out of the Great Wall or the Crouching Tiger.

    I am currently playing a game as the Cree, and I think they’re very good. They can grow really tall and get a lot of production, which is better in GS. They’re sort of like the Inca, except they trade off a bit of food & production in exchange for bonus gold. They’re among my choices for most buffed Civ, behind Germany.
     
  16. Leucarum

    Leucarum King

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    Out of the earlier civs... Greece's suzerain bonus nets them a LOT of favour. As Gorgo I didnt care about aiming for a diplo win but got away with extra warmongering as a consequence, and afterwards I traded favour to the AI for money or strategics as I needed. Greek culture victory is still super fast and favour just makes them better
     
  17. AsparustheSaiyan

    AsparustheSaiyan Chieftain

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    Germany got buffed? I wasn't aware of this, even indirectly, how has GS affected them? Glad you enjoyed your game as China! Did the early canals help at all?
     
  18. DWilson

    DWilson Where am I? What turn is it?

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    Phoenicia is interesting, as their bonuses generally aren't super powerful, but can be a quite a bit stronger if you abuse foreign continent bonuses (by having them go to all of your cities but one after moving your capital to an isolated new colony, and get even more bonuses if you add on some governor's)
     
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  19. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

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    I don't think you even need to abuse any continent bonuses with Phoenicia. In my game all I did was spam settlers & cothons. By the end of my medieval golden age the game was won. Half cost harbors + free inquiry was really all I needed.
     
  20. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Prince

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    Germany didn’t get buffed, but the Industrial Zone did, and any buff to the IZ indirectly buffs Germany because of the Hansa. They could get ridiculous production before, but now it’s just silly.
    I never ended up using canals because of my start, but other non-China games where I was able to use them make me think that there’s probably some decent application, albeit situational.
     

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