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[R&F] Power Ranking the Civs (Rise and Fall)

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Archon_Wing, Nov 26, 2018.

  1. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Apr 3, 2005
    Moving on...

    23. America

    Manifest more destiny

    America's always had a problem with having later games uniques and thus not being impactful. It still exists in this game, but at the very least they get +5 combat on their home continent. This makes early barbs and invasions much easier to deal with and guarantees some consistency. Yes, you might land on a map with weird splits in continents, but early war is not a problem for America, and even without resources, Oligarchy warriors will still get 29 strength if they're on the continent. Unlike other continent abilities, having a strong effect at the start is always a good thing.

    If they didn't need more reasons to take Oligarchy, they also get a normally useless diplomatic card changed into a wildcard. Potala Palace also becomes a 2nd forbidden palace. If they hit a dark age for some reason, they can even stack up on twilight valor and Oligarchic Legacy, which is something only Greece and Poland can really do.

    Of course, without war, America's a lot less effective, and their other abilities aren't impressive. National Parks are already really expensive, so having them give a bit of tourism doesn't help, and the Rough Rider has to be hard build. The film studio requires rivals to be in the modern era, and beyond that, it's just a generic Broadcast Center that has poor value anyways.

    So it's pretty much reliant on those 2 early abilities. Thankfully, they're good enough to keep them relevant.

    24. Brazil

    To chop or not chop

    Brazil has a strong ability in that they can get high adjacency bonuses with rainforests. Now that adjacency bonuses matter more, this is a bigger deal. The problem is that you wouldn't be chopping them for production, and maintaining that sort of balance is very hard and you may probably never have that dilemma with any other civ.

    The Great Person bonus isn't as good as it seems, because you need to actually get a great person first, and thus does nothing to help you catch up. It can help a bit with snowballing. Plus they keep getting more expensive, so it's sometimes not really 20% towards your next

    Their unique entertainment districts are pretty good, and running the street carnival may be a better way of great engineers than building those awful IZs, though you need IZs to activate some of them; fortunately none of the good ones require this so this requires you to look at the Great Person screen.

    The Minas Geraes is extremely powerful and despite the late appearance, it is still a battleship that comes too early to be reasonable. A single one can change control of the sea easily.

    They're not bad and much better than people give them credit for, as they just require a very different approach though I suppose they don't really have anything that special besides the Minas Geraes.

    25. Zulu

    Impi countdown

    As the only civ that's completely focused on military, Zulu's main problem is actually getting to their bonuses as they get almost no help there. Their Ikhanda's a good district and will help you get great generals but with no early defense or economic bonuses, you'll most likely be behind longer. Fortunately, their early corps can help them break out, and if they lack resources, the Impi corps may help as well. The extra loyalty can help with conquest, and later on, those armies are utterly devastating, with only Aztecs and Mongols able to compete. With that, they can quickly turn into a domination victory, but it does require a lot of effort to have this setup. They can definitely be very strong, but the oppurtunity window is especially unforgiving.

    26. Poland

    Basically Spain, minus the useless.

    Poland's got a bunch of strange abilities, though some do work better than others. The military to wildcard slot isn't really a bonus early on since military cards are so important that they get used anyways, though you can always opt for a religion.... they're honestly not very good at that though. The culture bombing ability isn't really worth building encampments or forts, though some really cramped situations can make use of it. It's probably just easier to attack anyways. They can do the Oligarchy/Twilight Valor thing though.

    The Sukiennice is a great building, able to allow you to balance out your trade routes. Unless you have no food or can't secure safe trade routes, Poland should probably be trading exclusively externally for that nice production boost. It does take a while to actually get those things in place though. Forming an alliance could really help as well.

    The Winged Hussar is very powerful. It is expensive though, but chopping some out to follow up a knight attack or something will definitely deal the killing blow and basically allows you to skip musketmen. The timing for it is really late, but it's actually viable.

    They also get some crap about relics or Holy Sites, which is as worthless as always.

    Doing stuff as Poland probably requires a different approach, but they can do it.
  2. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

    May 25, 2017
    China is a special Civ. DLCs introduce new wonders one by one, and whenever a new wonder is introduced China becomes stronger. So the power of China grows from patch to patch, truely a "growing" Civ. It was below average when Civ VI first introduced, but now is around the top tier Civs.
  3. Equilin

    Equilin Chieftain

    May 8, 2017
    Only for the first two ages tho, and i am not sure how wide is your "top tier civs". And when a civ is strong by only one (out of standard four) ability i wouldn't say it should be rated so high on regular rankings (if it's speedrun/optimal then it's a different story), even if that strong ability is very darn OP.
  4. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Apr 3, 2005
    The first 2 ages have wonders that are high impact and hard to get. Basically, by getting them, you've already sealed the game so it matters not if you build any more wonders. On the other hand, there is no later era wonder that has that huge of an impact and falls under "nice to have". Well, maybe Big Ben.

    # of abilities is not as important as how powerful they are. For example, if Aztecs only had the ability to fast build districts, I would consider them superior to a civ that had Georgia, Spain, and Egypt's abilities combined.
  5. agonistes

    agonistes wants his subs under ice!

    May 30, 2007
    Hmmm. A deity occ dom, my first pick is Persia. So I'd rank Persia tier 2.

    Agree with Aztecs, probably Summeria as well.

    Russia (and Khmer) are giant cannons that can be pointed at any vc. Russia's tile pop, faith and culture generation, and gp monopolization, are vastly underestimated by the majority of players. I'd move them both up.
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  6. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Apr 3, 2005

    These civs have what I consider either overly convoluted abilities, or "paper abilities" that look good in theory but just don't do anything. They're not necessarily bad civs, but generally are likely to be locked out of their abilities if they don't get a favorable situation. My key distinction for labeling civs here is that they simply don't do anything that any of the civs above couldn't do.

    .You'll usually have to work to get any mileage out of them, and they'll probably not do as well as the high tiers anyways. But they still can have good games.

    27. India (Gandhi)

    Peace until nukes

    As suggested above, India has very poor abilities, but Chandragupta's warring makes it possible. Gandhi on the other hand has a not so impressive religious focus. +5 faith per turn per religion founder is good, and maybe if you're still lagging behind on a pantheon it'll help.

    He also gives enemies double war weariness, and this while useful, is not as good as it sounds. Most civ games aren't 1v1 and thus dragging you and your enemy down is not the same as propping yourself up-- this is strictly inferior to Alexander's no weariness ability, and also means that it doesn't work on Alexander which is weird considering war weariness is what stopped him from pushing into India! The other thing is that fighting protracted wars isn't a good idea either anyways and enemy rebels will hinder you just as much as the enemy will!

    On the other hand, he still has the Varu.... and that makes him usable, but India's still best at war; though I guess you don't war with religion founders as Gandhi as much.... maybe? In the end, India's just simply not a strong civ, and dharma/stepwells really don't bring enough to the table. And if you're going to war, you might as well just go with Chandragupta. There's pretty much no reason to pick Gandhi unless you're memeing.

    28. Mapuche

    Starting a revolution near you

    Mapuche is the absolute best civ.... at killing Georgia. Thus, Mapuche truly excels in games where all the opponents are Georgia.

    However, for every other game that doesn't have that, Mapuche really doesn't have much going for it, unless you are lucky your opponent is getting into a golden age. This scales on difficulty since the AI accomplishes more with more bonuses, making them awful on Prince but somewhat more interesting on deity. So you'll have games that they'll do very well in, and other games where they do nothing in. So either the game hands itself to you, or you're playing a blank civ. Wonderful design.

    They do actually have a bonus against Dark Age civs though, as their kill/pillage reducing loyalty means a city that is struggling to keep up in loyalty is highly vulnerable to this. However, if you have the time to just sit outside someone's city killing units, you probably could just take the city itself. Ironically, the spot where this would be most useful would be their capital as it usually has higher defense.... good luck making that rebel though.

    The Chemamull is not bad, but it is picky on its location and basically an early seaside resort. Going culture victory is possible with them, and admittingly a plus.

    The Malon Raider is pretty strong too as it comes at a good time and does not rely on resources.

    They're the epitome of hot and cold. But at least you could argue they can run very hot.

    29. Scotland

    Remember, golf will solve all your problems

    Scotland has some good abilities on paper, but the problem is that there's practically no synergy between any of them and most just don't come soon enough.

    With happiness, you can get more Great Scientists and Engineers, but this doesn't really help early on since it takes a while to get Industrial Zones and those are pretty questionable anyways. Early Great Scientists are also not very good either and the AI often grabs them before you can do everything. This is still a good ability if you pick up divine spark too, but it takes a while to really take advantage of.

    They also get additional production and science with happiness. This is a decent bonus because it's easy to get, however, percentage boosts are not as good as additional flat yields early game. It tends to be drastically inferior to stuff like Japan/Netherlands/Brazil adjacency bonuses, and simply not in the same league as Korean ones. The production is good though. Late game, it starts to catch up to them.

    And the other problem is that they don't actually have any way to increase amenities until Golf Courses-- early game the amenity situation is often out of your control. Even Brazil, with their half priced ECs are going to have trouble fitting them in, besides the one needed for collosseum. And honestly, I don't really see anything Scotland being capable of, that Brazil can't do.

    The golf course is a great improvement, being an rare amenity one, but it lies in a very stupid civic path, and the highlander is well, pointless.

    And finally, there's that liberation war ability, which is even less reliable than Georgia's. At least you can cheese it by settling and losing a city to loyalty or just flat out giving them to someone.

    While they'll be consistently using their bonuses every game, I just think they don't have anything impressive to actually pull forward and don't really do anything a lot of the above civs can.

    Low (Part 2)

    And at this point, we have a massive drop off in power, and there really isn't much to say about these. There is no reason to really play as these civs beyond flavor, but at least have some gimmick going for them once in a while-- at least enough to avoid the trash tier.

    30. Norway

    Your coasts are undefended my friend

    There's really little to say about Norway. They're completely naval focused, and have some random religious bonus. The ship production can be abused for overflow, but that's going away, and they may be doomed to the garbage bin. Though the high melee strength of the longboat is still something you can rely on for city defense. And being able to explore faster does give you certain advantages in culture victories and trade.

    The berserker isn't terrible anymore, and that has to count for something.

    31. England

    Really good at winning already won games

    England was a decent civ in vanilla, however, for some reason, Firaxis decided to remove them from the game.

    Please press F

    Honestly, in a game with war carts and insta-spaceports, and England is what they decided to nerf? Without the double stacked trade routes, England merely gets a half priced dockyard. It's not a bad thing, as it gives extra units and loyalty.... on a different continent. If you can't find one, well, sucks to be you. But then again it's kind of your fault for playing England right?

    That being said, the Dockyard is still not bad, because the extra gold can be used with Free Inquiry for a good science boost.... if only harbors weren't on some dead end tech.

    But that's the problem. England is 90% about the Royal Dockyard. If you can't make good use of it, well....

    They also get boosted Musuems, and this is a good ability for winning cultural wins as it removes the need for theming. This pretty much saves England from the junkpile.

    Oh, and the redcoat is okay, if you could actually get it anymore.Apparently, you'll still be building settlers (if they haven't escalated in cost beyond all) and hope there is blank land still. Yea sure....

    Some people might tell you that if you spawn in a start with 10 sea resources, then you'll end up with great science 120 turns down the line in a golden age.... but honestly this doesn't really matter, and all you're getting with England is a minor production discount. Honestly, half priced dockyards in an already won game? Please stop spreading that fake news.

    32. Khmer

    Like Rome, but with none of the power

    Khmer is focused around building large cities

    Civ 6 does everything in its power to make that a bad idea with high penalties for growth and amenity problems, specialists and most tile yields do not compensate for it.

    Thus, they're not too good. Well, they also got religion. Oh wait.

    Aqueducts are actually pretty cheap structures, and getting more housing and amenities means that it's very much like the Roman bath. The problem is that Rome gets governors faster and has military advantages. Khmer doesn't really have any of that except that ballista elephant thing, which is actually rather good but takes a while to come up. They also get to do suicide missionaries because if you built up a religious building (ugh), they get martyr. Problem is missionaries can't initiate combat! At least the AI is dumb enough to do it for you. But an ability that REQUIRES your opponent to be stupid is a problem.

    Given some fortunate starts, Khmer can cheese a reliquaries victory, and maybe growing cities will matter some day. But otherwise they're just not much. But hey, it's something. I can't say the same about the civs in the last tier....
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  7. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Chieftain

    Jun 7, 2017
    Kept you waiting, huh?
    I've been on vacation for the winter and as a consequence, I haven't really found the time (or impetus, to be frank) to continue posting this tier list. But now that I'm back, I'm ready to get into the swing of updates so that I can finish this before Gathering Storm comes out!

    The Good Tiers

    19. Greece (Pericles)

    Our first Civ within the Good Tier and our second Civ with two alternate leaders, we have Greece led by Pericles. Things start out amazingly for this Civ, thanks to their unique ability of Plato’s Republic. This is easily among the best civilization abilities in the game, and it’s probably the most versatile: this ability grants you the opportunity to start your first policy cards out with both God King and Urban Planning, and then offers a great deal of flexibility as the game progresses. Civ VI provides a number of mix-ups throughout the game, and a great deal of a player’s ability to adapt comes from government policies; Greece having an extra wildcard policy slot gives them even more adaptability. One of the best wonders in the game is the Forbidden City, and Plato’s Republic gives Greece that wonder’s bonus for free. That should tell you something about it right there.

    The rest of Greece’s uniques are still good, but not as overwhelmingly great as Plato’s Republic. This starts with the Hoplite, which is fairly mediocre as far as unique units go. Spearmen are not strong units in Civ VI, thanks to their unit class’ minus 10 combat strength versus melee units. They also upgrade into Pikemen, which are equally bad units for the same reason plus a terrible tech prerequisite, making them sort of dead-weight units outside of their era. However, the Hoplite do get a plus 10 combat strength which helps offset the penalty; however, this only comes when adjacent to another Hoplite, which means you have to build not one mediocre and dead-weight unit, but two to even make them slightly worth the investment. Nonetheless, they do shred cavalry (which is good in a cavalry-centric meta) and are quite strong versus cities, making them not awful, but not especially good either.

    The Acropolis is another unique that is pretty good, if not eyecatching. It is a theatre square replacement that gives a standard adjacency bonus for being next to a city. Theatre square adjacencies are kind of hard to come by, however, so this can be a pretty nice trait to have. However, Acropolises can only be built on hills, which is a pretty major limiting factor. Hills are your primary source of production in a game where production is king, so being forced to consume one hill to place your Acropolis can be pretty bad. Additionally, this de-incentivizes Greece from settling on hills, which is your ideal location in most cases, and encourages settling next to them; they do have a bias towards starting next to hills, which makes this less of a problem for your capital, but may be problematic for your expands. They do, however, grant an envoy upon completion, which is a very nice thing to get from a half-cost district, and synergizes nicely with Surrounded by Glory. A percent increase to culture based on city-states that you’re suzerain over sounds nice on paper, but is less great when you consider two things. First, city-states can be pretty hotly contested, and typically in a game you might hold two to three of them. R&F added new ways to gain envoys, such as Amani, Kilwa Kisiwani, and the Acropolis envoy, making this ability slightly better in that regard. Second, that due to its status as a percentage-based bonus, the ability will be better as the game progresses, and early game bonuses are always better than late game bonuses. You might think this will help a culture victory in the late game, but you’d be wrong, since tourism exists separately from culture. Still, you’ll be able to speed through late-game civics, which can give a variety of bonuses that relate to many victory types.

    Overall, Pericles’ Greece is a pretty versatile culture-oriented Civ that likes to play the suzerainty game. They have an extreme degree of flexibility and adaptability, but aren’t really as much of a jack of all trades as you might expect. They also have a large degree of constraints and some mediocre aspects that can bring them down from being truly great. However, they’re still quite good and can run away with a game if they can accrue their city-states.

    18. Cree

    The Cree have a slew of generally good abilities that make them a well-rounded Civ who is suited towards any victory type you want to gun for. Unfortunately, that well-roundedness is both their greatest asset and also their biggest weakness, because while they find themselves comfortable doing almost anything, they don’t excel at any one thing in particular.

    Nîhithaw is an ability that sets up the Cree for a great start. Having an ability that grants them a free extra trade route and a very rapid border expansion route within the same stroke is amazing, as it will allow you to develop your cities and work desirable land faster than you otherwise might. Their focus on trade routes continues with Favorable Terms, which I believe does apply to your internal trade routes, granting the Cree additional food and gold if the criteria are met. Even if the ability only applies to external trade routes, getting additional food (growth potential being the main thing absent from external trade routes) makes them more worthwhile; giving things to your opponent, much like Cleopatra, is not great, but the positives outweigh the negatives to be sure. The extra vision grants you additional exploration as well, which is a welcome bonus. The Okihtcitaw is probable the Cree’s weakest asset, but even this is a fairly welcome bonus. The extra combat strength makes them more survivable, and the free promotion is a really welcome addition. However, it doesn’t fully warrant the extra production, and a different unit type than the scout might have resulted in a stronger Civ overall. Now, if you do manage to get the Ambush promotion on the Okihtcitaw, it is a ruthlessly strong unique unit. However, to this day I have never seen a recon-class unit unlock this promotion, so that is more of a pipe dream than anything. If any recon unit is going to unlock it, then I suppose the Okihtcitaw is going to be the one, but it still is more than unlikely.

    Now we move onto the Mekewap, which happens to be one of the best unique tile improvements in the game for my money. At best in the early game, it will grant you one housing, one production, one gold, and one food, which is absolutely amazing. More reasonably, you’ll either get the gold or food, but that still is really good regardless. The improvements also scales incredibly over time, and the improvements to the—well, the improvements to the improvement come at a more reasonable time than other tile improvements, making the investment of a tile into the Mekewap have great value. This is probably the strongest asset the Cree have, and it is a great one to be sure.

    While the bonuses that the Cree have are consistently helpful, they generally lack that extra “umph” that makes a great Civ. The Cree are pretty good at every victory type, but they don’t have any single bonus that pushes them over the edge and directly helps them win a specific victory type. Instead, they’re a Civ that more or less are guaranteed to secure themselves a solid early game (provided they aren’t early war-declared upon or get a poor start) and can orient themselves towards whichever victory type is best for their situation. However, they don’t get any bonuses that actually push them to winning the game, which makes them simply good.

    17. Greece (Gorgo)

    Here we have the second and last alternate leader in the game, Gorgo leading the Spartan-headed Greece. Much like Chandragupta versus Gandhi, I’m not going to spend too much time on the Greek uniques that are shared between Gorgo and Pericles, since they’re largely the same. Rather, I will simply note that the Acropolis’ culture gain and bonus envoy synergize more with Pericles, whereas the Hoplite goes more in line with Gorgo’s aggressive playstyle. That aggressive playstyle comes by the way of Gorgo’s unique ability, Thermopylae. This ability grants the player culture for every kill they make. At first glance, these seems like it would grant you less culture overall than Pericles’ bonus, especially in the late game; in fact, the culture for kills seems pretty irrelevant for earning culture towards late game civics. You would be right in this assumption, except you’d be missing the point that makes this ability superior to Pericles'. For one, Surrounded by Glory only starts to really come into play starting in the midgame, when you already have a decent level of culture per turn and one, maybe two city-states in your pocket. For Gorgo, the ability comes into play as soon as you start fighting barbarians or wage early war, which again, is pretty early. This puts you on the fast track to getting to Political Philosophy, which is the most important early game civic so you can unlock your governments before others. What makes Gorgo strong is pretty simple, yet straightforward: more early game culture, faster early game civics, faster route to government. By now, you know that I prefer early game bonuses to late game bonuses, and I simply think that Gorgo's unique ability is going to be more impactful when you need it to be, which is why she's placed at this point.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
    nzcamel likes this.
  8. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

    Mar 12, 2011
    You're underestimating the power of FAITH, especially when combined with Monumentality. Poland, Russia, and Japan deserve higher spots.

    Holy sites = Army Generation with GWC and Theocracy. They're better than Campuses most of the time for these civs.

    You can also spam settlers in a Golden Age.
  9. NorthernPalmyra

    NorthernPalmyra Chieftain

    Jan 5, 2019
    lol are they that bad? the musics quite good when you meet Tamar
  10. Jewelrunna

    Jewelrunna Chieftain

    Jun 7, 2017
    They are that bad.
  11. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Apr 3, 2005
    They're bad but it is not like you will auto-lose with them. But you could pick like mostly any other civ and do better.

    In another thread Victoria suggested fast Amani. I think that could pay off as Georgia.
    Jewelrunna likes this.
  12. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Warlord

    Nov 14, 2006
    Las Vegas
    Georgia is almost like a vanilla civ with no bonuses. But I do like the golden age bonus. As I mention in the Georgia civ of the week, I do think that greatly helped my religious victory fast time with them. I couldn't string 2 golden ages together with Russia, but could do with Georgia. It's just not a very interesting mechanic, which makes the civ very boring to play. Love the music though.
  13. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

    Aug 28, 2008
    Georgia just needs to have their abilities reworked so they can do the things they're supposed to be doing: use faith as war-currency

    => Fix Glory To The World, Kingdom and Faith: Gain +100% faith when in a Formal War or CB War. Every city following your majority religion grants +1 Influence towards earning Envoys. May spend faith to levy the units of city states
    => Buff Strength In Unity: In addition to its current bonuses, every time Georgia earns a Golden Age after a previous Golden Age, the second GA becomes a Heroic Age instead.
    => Have the Tsikhe replace Medieval Wars, but give it the strengths of the Medieval and Renaissance Walls combined. Give it +5 Faith AND +2 Tourism from the getgo, more after Cultural Heritage
    => Khevsurs unlock at Feudalism and are cheaper to faithbuy
    => Change their start bias to Mountains (2) and Grassland (5)

    There you go, a Georgia which DOESN'T suck. Now can someone tag a modder and get them to work on it, because I SO would play that mod ^_^
    Kjimmet and acluewithout like this.
  14. MarigoldRan

    MarigoldRan WARLORD

    Mar 12, 2011
    Start a new thread with the title "How to Fix Georgia," so you can get more attention for your ideas.
  15. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Apr 3, 2005
    Well, as I've said in the Georgia thread (it has its own thread...), just make their UB replace ancient walls and automatically upgrade when they discover new techs.

    This way they get some faith generation and worry less about defense.

    Also their era bonuses should apply outside of a Golden Age, as it means nothing when you can't get one. They should also get extra bonuses from dedications.
    Icicle likes this.
  16. SahintheFalcon

    SahintheFalcon Chieftain

    Mar 11, 2015
    MULTIPLAYER META LIST (online game speed, pangaea, barbs off, no other rules)
    Civilizations are also listed in order of strength within the tier itself. Based upon 300+ hrs of multiplayer experience in FFA.
    Ranking is heavily weighted towards early game military and defense (getting wiped out early is a fair and square loss no matter how many excuses you want to make), with middle-to-late game economy being the main secondary factor.

    Also included for fun is a prediction for the newly announced Gathering Storm civs.

    D-Bag Tier (likely to break the game and ruin other people's enjoyment, usually banned in my games)

    God Tier (almost impossible to beat unless they make a mistake, have a terrible start, or they are double-teamed)

    Hungary (prediction)

    Overpowered Tier (can go toe to toe with the God Tier in wars, but generally with a slightly weaker economy)
    Greece (both)
    Maori (prediction)

    Solid Tier (usable but not overpowered bonuses, will be able to win most wars on their own terms but will lose to equally-skilled players playing better civs)
    Inca (prediction)

    Playable Tier (usable bonuses, but weaker than the solid tier)

    Underpowered Tier (weak bonuses that cannot make up for a poor start)
    Canadian (prediction)

    Trash Tier (...)
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2019
    Icicle likes this.
  17. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

    Feb 15, 2006
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    While noting that you're talking multiplayer (something I'm not familiar with) I'm still surprised to see you rate the Aztecs so low. Does that differ to any SP games you've played? Most people rate the Aztecs as top tier...
    DWilson likes this.
  18. Wyvern_Parade

    Wyvern_Parade Chieftain

    Apr 9, 2018
    Aztecs are still quite good in multiplayer, but not the world beaters they are in single player. In part due to the fact that it's much more difficult to abuse a (good) human opponent and get a ton of free early builders compared to even deity AI. And people tend to rush swords which makes the window for Eagle warriors really small. I would rank them a bit higher than @SahintheFalcon did though.

    My multiplayer experience isn't quite as extensive, but in general I agree with his rankings, with a few exceptions:

    1.Australia is in the God-tier or even 'D-bag tier' due to their ability to easily get insane adjacencies for an early lead AND defend against wars with the OP double production when receiving a declaration of war. (This is even more powerful on Online speed).
    2. Mapuche should be higher solely due to their +10 combat strength against golden age civs. In order to compete in MP it is imperative to get either a Classical or Medieval golden age, so you can bet on being able to use this ability every game for timing attacks.
    3. I would also put France higher (definitely higher than India and Egypt), due to the initial +3 combat strength and early spies. Spies are really good in MP.

    Would love to hear more opinions on this from more experienced mp players out there.
    Icicle and nzcamel like this.
  19. Ferocitus

    Ferocitus Warlord

    Aug 7, 2016
    Adelaide, South Australia
    1ST RANK: Australia, Aztec, Cree, Kongo, Russia.
    2ND RANK: Brazil, Germany, Japan, Korea, Mapuche, Nubia, Rome.
    3RD RANK: China, India (Chandra), Greece (Pericles), Indonesia, Mongolia, Netherlands, Persia, Scotland, Zulu.
    4TH RANK: Arabia, Egypt, France, Greece (Gorgo), Khmer, Macedonia, Scythia, Spain, Sumeria.
    5TH RANK: England, Norway, Poland, Georgia.
  20. Cagarustus

    Cagarustus Chieftain

    Mar 9, 2017
    I actually think that Chandragupta is one of the most underrated leaders in the game. If you can declare a war of territorial expansion, which isn’t that hard, then you’re pretty much unstoppable for the next 10 turns, provided you’re up to date with science.
    Ferocitus likes this.

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