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Praetorians Imbalanced

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Splaaat, Feb 22, 2006.

  1. Splaaat

    Splaaat Chieftain

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    It seems to me that Praetorians are imbalanced - notably in multiplayer campaigns. They come very early. They overpower any units until crossbowmen (which come a bit later, quite later unless they are your focus, and it seems unfair to focus a strategy on obtaining 1 counter unit.)

    Their strength of 8 is 33% more than the unit they replace (the swordsman at 6.) Most unique units only gain a free promotion or so that only make them useful in 1 specific situation, and this 33% is clearly the largest power increase of any UU.

    While the Romans must have Iron to make them, if this is the focus of their game, that shouldn't be too much of a problem. It seems that if you play against Ceasar, you have two choices, rush to ironworking to find the iron on the map to try to keep it from him or rush to crossbowmen and hope you're still alive when they show up (unlikely).

    Is it just me, or are these guys a bit too powerful?
     
  2. IamSid

    IamSid TheTrueIdiot!

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    I noticed this on my first emporer game as Rome. I thought to myself "This is to easy."
     
  3. *Nosferatu*

    *Nosferatu* AHHH!!! BEARS!!!

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    Axeman, they may get raped, but they will do the job with a bit of stratagy.

    But I think Conquistadors are the real *****es, +50% vs. Melee, It'll even destroy pikeman 12 vs. 10 x 1.50 = 15.
     
  4. Splaaat

    Splaaat Chieftain

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    But in multiplay, your axemen are going to be meeting a human strategist, not the AI.

    They'll be at a disadvantage even with their mele bonus (5x1.5 = 7.5 Axemen vs. 8 Praetorian). AND - those axemen only are 7.5 vs. Praetorians and other mele. Praetorians are 8 vs. EVERYTHING.

    Conquistadors may show up to see your last city falling to the Roman Legions. Guilds comes waaaay after Iron Working.

    A stack of Praetorians will steamroll, and Construction shows up much later than iron working to provide the catapults to hit the stack.
     
  5. sabres77

    sabres77 Chieftain

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    kind of reflects the the rise of the Roman Empire IMO.....:king:
     
  6. Malarkey

    Malarkey Chieftain

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    My favorite UU. If you can't beat em, join em. :king:
     
  7. Xanikk999

    Xanikk999 History junkie

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    Thier unique unit is very good. But i hate playing rome because their traits are total crap and i mean the worst combination in the game.
     
  8. gettingfat

    gettingfat Emperor

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    Romans rose at the same time of Qin dynasty and Han dynasty in China, where repeating crossbows, poweful composite bows and a bit later catapults were already being used in large scale, the game does not reflect this.

    And the fact that Praetorians are able to beat Keshiks is also a joke from realistic viewpoint. Unless you can shut these two units in a small room Praetorians will just be another lunch for the immensely powerful Keshiks.
     
  9. Lockesdonkey

    Lockesdonkey Liberal Jihadist

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    Why do you care?
    Perhaps. However, I find the most effective strat v. Caesar to be convert him and make him your closest ally.
     
  10. Splaaat

    Splaaat Chieftain

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    That doesn't work very well in multi-player.
     
  11. lz14

    lz14 Prince

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    Axeman is a bit weaker but they are cheaper.

    plus if you are aggressive it's even better
     
  12. neriana

    neriana Warlord

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    I have never used Conquistadors for very long. Guilds take a long time to research, and preclude getting other extremely good techs -- unlike ironworking, which you've really gotta get pretty early anyway. I'm usually building cavalry before I get a chance to use conquistadors. Also, iron has been MORE common than horses in my games
     
  13. potatokiosk

    potatokiosk Deity

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    Indeed. A city with a barracks will train a unit equipped with an instant promotion. Since an agressive civ gets the Combat 1 promotion for free, you can use your first promotion for shock. (+25% vs. melee) The axeman is left with 8.75 vs. melee units, and is still cheaper than a Praetorian. Sure, you could be crushed by Horse Archers, but some people aren't that smart.
     
  14. vinstafresh

    vinstafresh Prince

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    In MP: Team up against Rome to keep him on the defense from multiple fronts in stead of offense. Have someone rush to construction and trade it to everyone except Rome. In MP you can ally straight off the bat...
     
  15. Vonreuter

    Vonreuter Warlord

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    The Praetorian nicely balances Julius' bad traits. Expansionist and Organized just isn't a competitive choice.

    What I don't understand is why they chose to name them Praetorians! Praetorians were the Emperor's guard, not armies by themselves. Legionary would've been better by miles.
     
  16. Uiler

    Uiler Emperor

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    Noble. Playing America (random civs). I was stuck on a continent alone with Caesar. Just as I discovered Iron Working and hooked up some iron, Caesar popped up begging me for some iron.

    I loved that game as I crushed Caesar under my heel. Though I think that might have been due more to the way I boxed him into jungle very early. I love lots of early scouting...
     
  17. warpstorm

    warpstorm Yumbo? Yumbo!

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    Historical accuracy be damned! Praetorian sounds cooler than legions :lol:
     
  18. lord_graywolfe

    lord_graywolfe Wolfman

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    something else to consider is what speed your on. anything less than marathon and the preatorian will probally be outdated by the time anyone can build enough of them to be a serious threat. its not far past iron working to civil service and macemen. from past experiance the macemen will eat the preatorian alive just rolling over them. also before getting cats or mace or xbow the best thing to do is as mentioned before use axemen with the shock promo. defend cities with lots of archers/longbowmen. use mounted units that can withdraw to wear them down.
     
  19. Xen

    Xen Magister

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    in all fairness, crossbows were being used in the med sea area before Rome really started to rise, so i dont see what the big deal is.
     
  20. alco75

    alco75 Warlord

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    Errr, no.

    Organized + Expansive = Horizontal + Vertical Growth = Large Population = 1st in GNP, 1st in Crops, 1st in Production.

    Organized is the best trait for large empires or domination victories.

    Expansive is only crap at easy difficulties.

    Stop playing at Warlord. :mischief:
     

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