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Praetyre's New Timelines, Dates and Eras Thread

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by Praetyre, Dec 29, 2016.

  1. Praetyre

    Praetyre King

    Joined:
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    PLEASE SEE POST #5 FOR IMPORTANT INFO

    Since the old thread has gone more than 3 years without further reply (and the spreadsheet I mention in it is also no longer used) , and I'd like to keep info about my ideas up to date and up front and center thread wise (as well as not making potential viewers wade through 10 pages of old discussion), I figured I'd start a new thread compiling my ideas and proposals regarding the broad subject of, well, timelines, dates and eras.

    This thread will largely be spoilered, so that interested parties can sift through it without the long scroll times often found for big, complex proposals and threads (and should particularly interesting posts, be it by me, the mod team or others, I'll make sure to mention them in one of the initial posts), particularly on slower computers or browsers (thankfully not the case for me, though my browser is oddly slow at times despite plenty of CPU power and RAM, possibly due to me playing a year+ long of Cookie Clicker and typically having loads of tabs open, though I'm nowhere near as bad on that one as I used to be).

    First, the most recent proposal for my planned future modmod, which also includes a section at the end detailing where in this revised/expanded timeline I would place some of the religions:
    Spoiler :



    Next, my notes on (including some suggested revisions which will be explicated on in another part of these initial posts) the previous proposal, as part of a discussion concerning someone else's idea to detail and revise C2C's eras, as well as my vision for the placement of alt-timelines, including some alt-timelines not currently included and, in some cases, not to my knowledge planned to be included in C2C:
    Spoiler :

     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
  2. Praetyre

    Praetyre King

    Joined:
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    Auckland, New Zealand
    Snipped part from first post where I detail some of my plans for the placement of the various religions:
    Spoiler :


    Snipped part from second post where I outline my plans for the placement and content of alt-timelines:
    Spoiler :



    A summary of C2C's current (as of 30/12/2016) "time plan" on Eternity gamespeed (which I realize is not the optimal gamespeed for playing C2C, especially with Joe's recent optimizations), with conjectured titles by me (some of which are even more tentative than others):
    Spoiler :

    Paleolithic Era-50,000 BC
    Neolithic or Chalcolithic Era?-6000 BC
    Ancient Era ((contemporary?) academic classification)-1980 BC (possible error? especially given Eternity has gone out of focus even more than usual with Joe's optimizations (no disrespect intended to Joe or his work))
    Postclassical/Medieval Era orEarly Middle Ages-520 AD (Intended to match the 529 AD closure of the revived, Neoplatonic academy by Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian I?)
    High Middle Ages?-1240 AD
    Early Modern Era/or Renaissance (Era?)-1640 AD
    High Industrial Age?-April 1883 AD
    Transhuman or Information Era?-October 2005 AD (a very important date for me and IMO the year of a subdecades beginning (and not far from from Hurricane Katrina, which began said subdecade for me)
    Galactic/Space Era?-February 3019 AD
    Galactic/Space Era?-February 4969 AD
    Future Era (not that I really consider this an era, though I have considered a special soundtrack for it that incorporates at least part of the Galactic/Space Era)-5969 AD (some kind of reference to Dune or YEC theory, maybe?)


    Summary of C2C's current eras, as I would date them (note that this is a possible ideal rather than what I think the current tech tree represents):
    Spoiler :

    Prehistoric Era-50,000 BC
    Ancient Era-10,000 BC (if Neolithic)/3000 BC (if Bronze+early Iron Age)
    Classical Era-800 BC
    Medieval Era-500 AD
    Renaissance Era-1500 AD
    Industrial Era-1750/1800/1850 AD (further discussion on this elsewhere)
    Modern Era-1900/1925/1950 AD (ditto)
    Transhuman Era-1990/2000/2010/2020/2030/2050/2100 AD
    Galactic Era-2100/2150/2200 AD
    Future Era-3000 AD


    The issue of the starting date:
    Spoiler :

    The way I see it, there are four viable options (with the last varying considerably) for C2C's starting date:

    3,300,000 BC
    Advantages:
    • Coterminous with the Lower Paleolithic (of course, coterminousness with eras the further back you go becomes less precise, as does the dates for these eras themselves).
    • Starts from the very beginning of what some would call man (though what you would consider man is another question, one not only scientific but philosophical), though not quite as far back as the (sadly cancelled) Cambrian2Cosmos.
    • Partly because of the above, this starting date allows for an extremely broad tech tree (though some might see this as a disadvantage).
    Disadvantages:
    • Makes realistic pace effectively impossible, for obvious reasons.
    • Why consider Australopithecus afarensis the first in mankind's genetic lineage? Why not the unknown creature that existed just prior to the human-chimpanzee divergence? Why not Proconsul? Why not Cretaceous-era mammals? Why not the first proto-mammals to diverge from the reptile line? Why not in between those times, or back even further?
    • The differences between the Lower and Middle Paleolithic are largely cosmetic from a Civ-gameplay perspective, and amount to changes in hominid species (something which could also drastically alter human history if it goes in an allohistorical direction), tool industries and world population and distribution.
    • Comes before the theorized Toba catastrophe and its population bottleneck.
    • Predates behavioral modernity.
    • Predates Homo sapiens neanderthalensis and Homo sapiens sapiens.
    • Predates the first "human" migrations out of Africa.
    200,000 BC
    Advantages:
    • Begins with man as he currently exists, at least in anatomical terms (behavioral modernity and its philosophical equivalent being discussed elsewhere), and thus avoids the allohistorical implications of divergences in the human gene pool.
    • Allows for an almost unfathomable degree of allohistorical divergence regarding the African Exodus (or lackthereof). Though some might see this as a disadvantage.
    • Requires less modeling of the kind of long term changes the Earth experiences over millions of years.
    • Avoids, at least to some extent, the allohistorical divergences produced by differences in the way competition between hominid species plays out.
    • Does not predate Homo sapiens neanderthalensis.
    • Postdates some of the first "human" migrations out of Africa.
    • Less of a steep curve in era length compared to 3,300,000 BC.
    Disadvantages:
    • Not precisely coterminous with the Middle Paleolithic.
    • Suffers from similar pacing problems to the 3,300,000 BC starting date, if to a degree at least around an order of magnitude less.
    • Would restrict the human population in a way that would make multiple players, especially with broad geographic distribution, relatively implausible.
    • Comes before the theorized Toba catastrophe and its population bottleneck.
    • Predates behavioral modernity.
    • Still a fairly steep curve in era length, especially by comparison to the next proposals and others like them.
    50,000 BC
    Advantages:
    • Coterminous with the Upper Paleolithic and possibly behavioral modernity.
    • Postdates the African Exodus.
    • Postdates the theorized Toba catastrophe and its population bottleneck.
    • Thanks to the above two factors, does not restrict the distribution of players on a realistic Earth start nearly as much.
    • Less of a steep curve in era length compared to previous proposals.
    Disadvantages:
    • Still predates the so-called Cro-Magnon's migration into Europe, as well as most credible dates for the migration of any modern humans into the Americas and even West Africa.
    • Still a fairly steep curve in era length, especially by comparison to the next proposal and others like it.
    10,000-4000 BC
    Advantages:
    • Has by far the least pacing problems of any of the proposals.
    • The lowest date, 4000 BC, has been tried and true in vanilla Civ IV, and the highest, 10,000 BC, is fairly close to the already-done 12,000 BC date for earlier versions of Caveman2Cosmos.
    • This proposal comfortably postdates credible theories regarding the inhabitation of the Americas and Europe (albeit by Paleo-Indians in the formers case rather than ancestors of the current indigenous peoples), as well as the Last Glacial Maximum.
    Disadvantages:
    • The Neolithic and any part of the Paleolithic are quite distinct from each other, and losing that distinction would be a bane, not a boon, to C2C's scope, especially its tech tree. I see no way it can be plausibly argued that the developments in the Prehistoric era (especially the further back you go) can be compressed into such a timespan.
    Other Ideas (feel free to add and/or discuss, as with everything in this thread)
    • 40-35,000 BC? Coming of first modern humans into Europe
    • 20,000 BC? Mesolithic first starts in the Near East
    • 12,000 BC? C2C's old start date
    • 4000-3000 BC? Skip the "Caveman" part altogether, be it for issues of pacing, allohistorical divergence and/or some other reason(s)?


    The issue of the ending date:
    Spoiler :

    I presently favour an ending date of 3000 AD, both because of pacing and scale issues I discuss near the end of my proposal and to round off recorded history from 3000 AD. However, I can see arguments for 10,000 AD and possibly other dates, be they before, after or in between those dates.


    Ideas for revision under my modmod of the 3000 BC-500 AD period:
    Spoiler :

    Current Proposal:
    Early Bronze Age-3000 BC
    Middle Bronze Age-2000 BC
    Late Bronze Age-1500 BC
    Iron Age-1200 BC
    Archaic Period-800 BC
    Classical Period-500 BC
    Hellenistic Era-300 BC
    Imperial Age-50 BC
    Late Antiquity-200 AD
    Early Middle Ages-500 AD
    High Midde Ages-1000 AD
    Late Middle Ages-1300 AD
    Renaissance-1500 AD

    Proposed Alternative:
    Bronze Age-3000 BC
    Iron Age-1200 BC
    Classical Period-500 BC
    Late Antiquity-200 AD
    Medieval Era-1000 AD
    Renaissance-1500 AD


    Ideas for revision under my modmod of the 1500 AD-1850 AD period:
    Spoiler :

    Current proposal:
    Renaissance-1500 AD
    Age of Sail/Discovery (name tentative)-1600 AD
    Enlightenment-1700 AD
    Early Industrial Age-1800 AD
    High Industrial Age-1850 AD

    Alternative I:
    Renaissance-1500 AD
    Enlightenment-1750 AD
    High Industrial Age-1850 AD

    Alternative II:
    Renaissance-1500 AD
    Baroque Period-1600 AD
    Enlightenment-1750 AD
    High Industrial Age-1850 AD

    Alternative III:
    Renaissance-1500 AD
    Baroque Period-1600 AD
    Enlightenment-1750 AD
    Early Industrial Age-1800 AD
    High Industrial Age-1850 AD

    Alternative IV:
    Renaissance-1500 AD
    Enlightenment-1750 AD
    Early Industrial Age-1800 AD
    High Industrial Age-1850 AD


    Summary of Civilization V: Brave New World/Civilization VI's Eras, with dates by me:
    Spoiler :

    Ancient Era-10,000/3000 BC
    Classical Era-3000/800 BC
    Medieval Era-500 AD
    Renaissance Era-1500 AD
    Industrial Era-1750/1800/1850 AD
    Modern Era-1900 AD
    Atomic Era-1950 AD
    Information Era-1980/1990/2000 AD


    A proposal of mine for Caveman2Cosmos (not (just?) my modmod) that revises the eras in accordance with (contemporary? no pun intended) academic periodization/epochalization:
    Spoiler :

    Paleolithic Era-50,000 BC
    Neolithic Era-10,000 BC
    Ancient Era-3000 BC
    Postclassical Era-500 AD
    Early Modern Era-1500 AD
    Late Modern Era-1750/1800/1850 AD
    Contemporary Era-1900/1925/1950 AD
    [Name undecided, will largely take the place of Transhuman Era]-1990/2000/2010/2020/2030/2050 AD
    Space Era-2100/2150/2200 AD
    Future Era-3000 AD


    Another proposal of mine for Caveman2Cosmos (not (just?) my modmod) that revises the eras in an Empire Earth-esque fashion, as well as in accordance with distinct era differences, particularly in the music I feel suits each era:
    Spoiler :

    Paleolithic Era-50,000 BC
    Neolithic Era-10,000 BC
    Bronze Age-3000 BC
    Iron Age-1200 BC
    Classical Era-500 BC
    Late Antiquity/Low Middle Ages-300 AD
    Medieval Era-1000 AD
    Early Modern Era-1300 AD/1500 AD
    Enlightenment-1700 AD/1750 AD
    High Industrial Period-1850 AD
    Late Industrial Period-1900 AD
    Age of Diesel-1925 AD
    Atomic Age-1950 AD
    Information Age-1990 AD
    Near Future Era-2050 AD
    Far Future Era-2200 AD


    CURRENT FAVOURED C2C OPTION (For "vanilla" C2C, not my modmod)
    Yet another proposal of mine for Caveman2Cosmos (not (just?) my modmod) that revises the eras in a manner akin to Civilization V: Brave New World, as well as following a "lumped" segmentation before the 20th century and a "split" segmentation during it and the first half of the 21st century:
    Spoiler :

    Paleolithic Era-50,000 BC
    Neolithic Era-10,000 BC
    Ancient Era-3000 BC
    Postclassical Era-500 AD
    Early Modern Era-1500 AD
    Late Modern Era-1800 AD
    Age of Diesel-1925 AD
    Atomic Age-1950 AD
    Information Age-1990 AD
    Near Future Era-2050 AD
    Far Future Era-2200 AD
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  3. Praetyre

    Praetyre King

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    THE GREAT UNIT-ERA ASSIGNMENT

    Please note that this is all early stuff, and I may have made a few errors along the way (it took me 5 hours straight to get almost all the units catalogued in the Unit Upgrade Tree (using the then-latest SVN and Toffer's GUI modmod). With a few rare exceptions, cultural unique units have not been catalogued, nor have heroes. I may get to categorizing those at some point.

    All of these are open to discussion, and it should be kept in mind that on my end a lot of these placements have to do with the vision I have for each particular era, which harmonizes both historical and gameplay elements. For example, the Neolithic Era will be quite similar to current-Prehistoric, the biggest "big picture" differences being that agriculture is in play and social stratification and division of labour is much more pronounced. My vision for the Paleolithic, of course, incorporates the Nomadic Start, though I realize that is on the back burner at the moment.

    One last but very important note: these eras use what I have come to call my "Short Chronology", a chronology I hope to eventually see used in C2C, whereas my "Long Chronology", if I use it, would be in my own modmod. As such, they do not precisely map onto the existing eras in all respects, especially towards the beginning and end of the tech tree. I realize that era revision is unlikely to happen for some time, but as a long term project I feel this is one of the main components of my theoretical contributions to C2C.

    Also, I have included what I call the "Near Future Era" for reference (i.e. not so much to say what is in it as to say what is not in previous eras). My approach to the future is quite different (though not entirely dissimilar) than pepper2000's, but I'm fine with keeping it in a modmod and letting him run the show vis-a-vis the future eras. The "Far Future Era" is extremely sparse, mainly because C2C is yet to have much in the way of sophisticated space units (military starfleets being the most obvious example).

    Anyway, I hope you (Thunderbrd in particular) enjoy this writeup, and I look forward to working with you guys in future. So, without further ado, here we go;

    The Paleolithic Era
    200,000 BC-10,000 BC

    Note: Dates are included for historical reference; even within our own world not all peoples advanced at the same rate, and my approach in the Short Chronology is to focus on equalizing playtime in each era rather than caring about the calendar dates. They should at least help give a rough reference for my own vision to the era.

    Melee Ground Units
    • Brute
    • Clubman
    • Spiked Clubman
    • Wood Spearman
    • Stone Spearman
    • Stone Maceman
    • Obsidian Spearman
    • Neanderthal Warrior
    • Obsidian Maceman
    Ranged Ground Units
    • Stone Thrower
    • Slinger
    • Atlatlist
    Settler Unit: Band of Homo sapiens sapiens (why was the second sapiens removed, anyway? Also, this isn't technically a settler unit ultimately (given the Nomadic Start), but it needs to be mentioned)

    Worker Units
    • Gatherer
    Counter-Animal Units
    • Chaser
    • Tracker
    • Hunter
    • Great Hunter
    • Master Tracker
    • Master Hunter
    Scout Units
    • Wanderer
    Naval Units
    • Raft
    Law Enforcement Units
    • Tribal Guardian (Should be renamed Band Guardian or Family Guardian or something like that (heck, maybe just Guardian))
    • Watcher
    • Enforcers (You could make an argument for these being Neolithic)
    Criminal Units
    • Exile
    • Thief
    • Arsonist
    Canine Units
    • Trained Dogs
    • Guard Dogs (could be Neolithic depending on how you interpret it)
    The Neolithic Era
    10,000 BC-3000 BC

    Melee Ground Units
    • Stone Axeman (Axes as we know them were invented in the late Neolithic, although you could interpret these units in such a way that they'd be Paleolithic)
    • Obsidian Axeman (See above)
    • Spearman (Since copper spears are a thing and all)
    • Axeman (Likewise)
    • Maceman (Ditto)
    • Mounted Infantry
    • Mapinguari (Wooden Spearmen) (This one is in here by virtue of the fact I see megafauna domestication as Neolithic, not wooden spears per se)
    • Mapinguari (Stone Spearmen) (See above)
    • Mapinguari (Obsidian Spearmen) (See above)
    • Mapinguari (Spearmen) (Copper again)
    Ranged Ground Units
    • Archer (The bow and arrow was invented in the early Neolithic)
    • Skirmisher (I figure the basic concept could be done with copper weapons and leather armour)
    Great General/Warlord Units
    • Great Chief
    • Warlord Chief
    Settler Unit: Tribe

    Worker Units
    • Worker
    • Dog Worker (Parts of these animal workers could be late Paleolithic)
    • Pack Llama
    • Pack Mule
    • Work Mule
    • Buffalo Worker
    • Llama Worker
    • Camel Worker
    • Mammoth Worker
    • Elephant Worker
    • Entranced Worker (Voodoo may have originated as a syncresis (is that even a word?) between West African animism and Christianity, but the basic concept of this unit seems like it could be done in a Neolithic society, and indeed those West African societies themselves would likely be Neolithic.)
    • Workboat (Ancient) (Should be renamed Workboat (Neolithic).)
    Merchant Units
    • Early Merchant (These present something of a problem. On the one hand, barter is likely Neolithic. On the other, trade between proto city-states very likely happened in the later Neolithic. A compromise could be to move this and the Early Food Merchant to the late Paleolithic)
    • Trade Caravan
    • Early Food Merchant
    • Food Caravan
    Scout Units
    • Scout
    • Guide (Most societies that are known for providing these seem to be at least partly Neolithic, like the Sherpas)
    Naval Units
    • Canoe
    • War Canoe (This is off-topic, but I still miss the Waka)
    • Kayak
    • Outrigger
    Law Enforcement Units
    • Town Watchmen
    • Patrols
    Criminal Units
    • Rogue
    • Ambusher
    • Burglar
    • Stalkers
    • Bandit Footpad
    • Bandit Rider
    Cavalry Units
    • Horseman (The way I see it, equipment would represent this unit becoming more advanced in the Ancient Era)
    • Asiatic War Rhinoceros (You could argue this should be Ancient. Part of my justification for putting it here is Dancing Hoskuld mentioning Neolithic chiefs sometimes had exotic animal menageries.)
    • Rhinoceros Rider (Ditto, although the fact that this is a steed rather than a throwaway unit makes the argument weaker)
    • Light Cavalry
    • Bison Rider
    • Horse Archer
    • Zebra Archer
    • Early Chariot (The way I see it, these, among other things, represent the tribal European type chariots, as opposed to the Ancient Near Eastern ones)
    • Chariot Archer (I figure these are basically the archer version of Early Chariots)
    • Camel Rider
    • Zebra Chariot (See above)
    • Bear Rider
    • Camel Archer
    • Llama Rider
    • Llama Archer
    • Elephant Rider (The way I see it, this is basically just a guy or a team of guys driving an elephant with, at most, leather armour)
    • Giraffe Archer
    • Mammoth Rider (See above)
    • Deer Rider
    • Deer Archer
    • Light Deer Cavalry
    Siege Units
    • Log Ram (I still remember the Samson from Empire Earth, which this unit used to have as an icon. Good times. IIRC that unit was placed in the Stone Age (the second epoch, representing 50,000 BC-5000 BC), which is understandable given you always have building in Empire Earth)
    Healer Units
    • Wise Woman
    • Healer
    • Medicine Man
    • Shepherd
    • Cartwright
    Feline Units
    • Trained Cat (Feline domestication came a lot later than canine domestication, as this mod accurately reflects. There's likely a strong case for a requirement of sedentism for feline domestication, what with cats killing pests that might eat stored food/goods and all)
    • War Cat
    • Guard Cat
    Canine Units
    • Wardogs
    • Hell's Mouth Dog (See Entranced Worker entry above for why this could fit in the Neolithic)
    Other Units
    • Story Teller (This one is the Neolithic for two reasons. One, it's a specialized societal position, implying a certain degree of the social stratification/division of labour of the Neolithic. Two, its effect is on settlements, something that wouldn't make sense in a Paleolithic setting)
    • Diplomat- Negotiator (Social stratification/division of labour again. It would also require there to be a serious possibility of conflict between human groups, and I see Warfare as a Neolithic technology.)
    The Ancient Era
    3000 BC-500 AD

    Melee Ground Units
    • Obsidian Swordsman (Swords came about with the Bronze Age. I wouldn't be that surprised if new discoveries push them back to the late Neolithic, though)
    • Light Swordsman (Ditto. Also, like Thunderbrd seems to, I think of this unit as representing copper, bronze and iron light swordsmen, with the future equipment project representing those differences fully)
    • Swordsman (Ditto)
    • Gladiator (Though the basic concept may date back to the late Neolithic. I should probably note here that I see the early Neolithic as tribal villages and the late Neolithic as proto-city states, ala Mesopotamia)
    • Fanatic (The current unit is Medieval, but the basic concept seems like it could easily date back this far, if not the Neolithic)
    • Ra Fist (Ditto. Plus, it makes sense to me that Kemetism would shine primarily in this era)
    • Loki Fist (Ditto. Also, I was surprised to learn Asatru dates back this far; I always assumed the Norse being in Age of Mythology was artistic license)
    • Early Imperial Guard (These units really need an overhaul, IMHO; the basic concept is an excellent one and one not really exclusive to monarchical or even non-democratic civs.)
    Ranged Ground Units
    • Javelineer (Could easily be late Neolithic)
    • Bellybowman
    • Light Crossbowman (representing the Chinese version)
    • Composite Bowman
    • Ancient Rocketeer
    • Ancient Hand Cannon
    • Ancient Flamethrower (These last three also seem to represent predominantly Chinese innovations)
    Great General/Warlord Units
    • Noble (To be quite honest, I'm really not sure what's going on with these units. Noble is included here because the concept of an aristocracy is a lot older than the Postclassical (aka Medieval) Era; it may even be Neolithic in at least some form)
    Settler Unit: Settler

    Worker Units

    • Workboat (Classic) (Like its predecessor, should be renamed Workboat (Ancient).)
    Counter-Animal Units
    • Ranger (Could, like a fair few others, also be late Neolithic, depending on how advanced (i.e. stratification+division of labour) things were back then. One way of dealing with that could be keeping Ancient's start at around 5000 BC in scope)
    • Master Ranger
    Scout Units
    • Explorer (Here because it implies an organized effort by an advanced society, one particularly suggestive of expanding beyond a few city-states at most)
    Naval Units
    • Galley
    • War Galley
    • Trireme
    • Quinquereme
    • Deceres (I'd like to see more units along these lines, representing the really ridiculous many oared ones (maybe even as National Wonder Units or at least really expensive, ala say the Mammoth Tanks from the Command & Conquer Tiberian series. Barge units would also be nice.)
    • Siege Quinquereme
    • Dromon (This one continued into the Postclassical and even Early Modern Eras, though likely upgraded in many ways)
    Criminal Units
    • Dragon Ship Pirate
    Espionage Units
    • Assassin
    • Spy (Implies both a society advanced enough to have a service of such people, and would likely need writing to keep it going)
    Cavalry Units
    • Heavy Cavalry
    • Horse Crossbowman (Again, representing China. I can remember these from the very good City Building Series game Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom)
    • Ra Knight (Obviously would need a rework. Like the Ra Fist, I'm placing this here to make it shine when Kemetism's heyday actually was)
    • Chariot
    • War Wagon (Could be Neolithic, but if so perhaps other siege units I've designated as Ancient should be)
    • Giraffe Crossbow (See horse entry above)
    • War Elephant
    • Ballista Elephant
    • War Mammoth
    • Ballista Mammoth
    Siege Units
    • Lithobolos (The good old catapult we know and love from Age of Empires I. Ah, memories...)
    • Oxybeles (This one brings back memories of Europa Barbarorum)
    • Mangonel (I associate these with the Postclassical Era thanks to Age of Empires II, but if they really do date back that far...)
    • Scorpion (See Oxybeles)
    • Siege Onager (See Mangonel)
    • Battering Ram
    • Ballista (This one reminds me of the Age of Empires I mission where the Greeks have just invented it and its kind of a boss unit. They also had the Mirror Towers and other Sandalpunk type stuff that I'd like to see as an alt-timeline for the Ancient Era.)
    • Siege Tower
    • Carroballista
    Healer Units
    • Apothecary
    • Veterinarian (Implies not only division of labour within the medical profession, but that there's enough demand of it through recreational animal keeping, a sign of leisure and Maslow's more primal needs being generally met)
    • Siege Engineer (You'd use a carpenter for repairing Log Rams, I expect)
    Other Units
    • Bard​
    • Entertainer (Debated about where to put these two, what with Neolithic folk music and all. Could easily be Neolithic)​
    • Diplomat- Classic (Should be Diplomat (Ancient), of course)​
    The Postclassical Era
    500 AD-1500 AD

    Melee Ground Units
    • Pikeman
    • Crusader (Not sure if this one should be genericized and available to all/most religions)
    • Heavy Axeman
    • Heavy Swordsman
    • Heavy Pikeman
    • Flailman (This one brings back memories of fighting the Gnolls in the subterranean world in Heroes of Might and Magic III)
    • Barud Warrior
    • Mapinguari (Pikemen)
    • Militia (Medieval) (Could be renamed Militia (Postclassical).)
    Ranged Ground Units
    • Crossbowman
    • Longbowman
    • Fire Arrow
    • Ribauldequin (This one came about in the Late Middle Ages)
    • Organ Gun (Ditto)
    Great General/Warlord Units
    • Great Captain (Again, I'm not quite sure what's going on with these. They're listed here because of where they come in the upgrade chain and their requirements)
    • Warlord Captain (Ditto)
    • Warlord Vassal (Vassalage being Postclassical)
    • Lord (See Great Captain above)
    Settler Unit: Settler

    Worker Units

    • Workboat (Middle Ages) (Could be renamed Workboat (Postclassical).)
    Merchant Units
    • Cog Merchant (Surprised me how early these came. They're here for historical reasons, I realise they're Ancient currently. A new unit could be created for replace their current use, or it could just be renamed)
    • Carrack Merchant (Ditto)
    • Supply Train (Here because of where it came in the upgrade chain- the basic concept is Ancient at the very least)
    • Food Supply Train (Ditto)
    Counter-Animal Units
    • Warden
    • Master Warden (Perhaps, given their likely eminence, these should be called Grey Wardens?)
    Naval Units
    • Cog (This one seems to be somewhat seperate from the merchant unit, placement-wise)
    Law Enforcement Units
    • Guard (I think?... not entirely sure on this one)
    • Shaolin Monk
    Espionage Units
    • Hashishin
    Cavalry Units
    • Knight
    • Mailed Knight (This is a bit off topic, but the Cataphract definitely needs to be made a universal unit; the concept is very widespread around the Persia/Caucuses area, just for starters)
    • Zebra Knight
    • Camel Knight
    • Bear Knight
    • Bombard Elephant (Bombards are late medieval)
    • Bombard Mammoth (Ditto)
    Siege Units
    • Trebuchet
    • Siege Ram (Seems to be a medieval upgrade of a classical unit)
    • Heavy Ballista (Ditto)
    • Bombard (See Bombard Elephant entry)
    • Great Bombard (Ditto)
    • Falconet (Ditto)
    • Siege Wagon (See Siege Ram entry)
    Healer Units
    • Doctor (Not entirely sure)
    • Monk
    • Surgeon (See Doctor)
    • Gear Mechanic (Ditto)
    The Early Modern Era
    1500 AD-1850 AD

    Ranged Ground Units
    • Arquebusier
    • Musketman
    • Grenadier (Perhaps this should be renamed Grenadier (Early Modern) or Early Grenadier to avoid confusion with Grenadiers from WWI onwards?)
    • Sharpshooter
    • Renaissance Imperial Guard (I'm thinking this one should be akin to Napoleon's)
    • Militia (Renaissance) (Should be renamed Militia (Early Modern).)
    • Peshmerga (Guerilla warfare using firearms seems to date to the late parts of this era, although I can see arguments for a this being earlier or later. Obviously, the unit wouldn't be using modern rifles in this era)
    Great General/Warlord Units
    • Great Corporal (Still not sure what's going on here. These ones are placed here for similar reasons to the Medieval ones. Also, Corporal is a really low rank; this should be renamed to something else unless there's something historical I'm missing)
    • Warlord Corporal (Ditto)
    • Viceroy (Ditto, minus the bit about Corporal, of course.)
    Settler Unit: Colonist

    Merchant Units

    • Clipper Merchant
    Counter-Animal Units
    • Game Hunter (I initially thought these two were supposed to be what Big Game Hunter actually is)
    • Master Game Hunter
    Scout Units
    • Adventurer (Not entirely sure on this one)
    Naval Units
    • Fluyt (Some of these may be late medieval, and thus Postclassical)
    • Galleon
    • Galleass
    • Caravel
    • Brigantine
    • Sloop of War
    • Sloop, Ship of the Line
    • Frigate (Initially confused this with later counterparts)
    • Man 'O' War
    Law Enforcement Units
    • City Guard (Like Guard, this is mainly here because of where its positioned and its requirements. I'm assuming these guys are something like the mooks from Assassin's Creed II/Brotherhood)
    Criminal Units
    • Cutthroat (I assume these are meant to represent classic pirates and the like)
    • Scoundrel (Ditto)
    • Highwayman (Seems like the 17th century was the heyday for these guys, at least in England)
    • Barbary Corsair (Ditto to Cutthroat)
    • Privateer (Ditto)
    Cavalry Units
    • Cuirassier
    • Dragoon
    • Carabinier
    • Lancer
    • Zebra Cuirsassier
    • Camel Cuirassier
    • Giraffe Cuirassier
    • Giraffe Carabinier
    • Giraffe Dragoon
    Siege Units
    • Culverin (Could be late medieval, and thus Postclassical)
    • Heavy Cannon (Ditto)
    Land Vehicles
    • Da Vinci Tank
    Air Support
    • Ornithopter​
    • Hot Air Balloon​
    The Late Modern Era
    1850 AD-1900 AD

    Melee Ground Units
    • Wrench Warrior (These things certainly existed in this era, and I can see such a society going post-apocalyptic, albeit not for the usual reasons)
    • Machete Warrior (Ditto. Recall the classic Great White Hunter archetype carving his way through the jungles of India or Indochina)
    • Hatchet Warrior (Ditto)
    Ranged Ground Units
    • Urban Crossbowman (See above)
    • Rifleman
    • Marine (The basic concept+firearms seems to date from here, if not earlier)
    • Sniper (The basic concept could be late Early Modern)
    • Gatling Gun
    • Militia (Industrial) (Would be Militia (Late Modern).)
    Great General/Warlord Units
    • Great Colonel (See the Early Modern predecessors to this)
    • Warlord Colonel
    Settler Unit: Pioneer

    Worker Units

    • Industrial Era Worker (Should be Late Modern Era Worker)
    • Modern Workboat (Should be Late Modern Workboat or Workboat (Late Modern)
    Counter-Animal Units
    • Big Game Hunter (It's a crying shame neither this guy nor the Master version looks like the classic yellow-tan jacketed, pith helmet wearing, moustachioed archetype)
    • Master Big Game Hunter

    Scout Units
    • War Wheel (This unit has long reminded me of General Grievous' bike from Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith. Which I'll be seeing sometime soon, in preparation for watching Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi.)
    Naval Units
    • Paddle Steamer
    • Pre-Dreadnought
    • Iron Frigate, Ironclad
    • Advanced Ironclad (I'm not quite sure what this unit is meant to be; if it's meant to be WWI era ironclads, it'd go in the next era instead)
    • Torpedo Boat
    • Nautilus

    Law Enforcement Units
    • Crowbar Guard (See Wrench Warrior entry)
    • Sheriff
    • Police Squad (Seems to represent something that would date back here. Perhaps this could be urban and sheriff more rural (smaller cities and non-city tiles?) Although even the contemporary United States has sheriffs, though they often do deal with intercity/rural crime...)

    Criminal Units
    • Partisan (The concept seems to date here, although prototypical forms of it can be seen in things like the American Revolution)
    • Gunfighter
    • Outlaw
    • Thug (Not entirely sure. Could be later)

    Espionage Units
    • Agent (Could be the next era, or the one after that, or even the one after that)

    Cavalry Units
    • Urban Horseman (See Wrench Warrior entry above)
    • Cavalry
    • Camel Cavalry
    • Zebra Cavalry
    • Camel Gunner (I think Gunners are supposed to be from this era. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)
    • Elephant Gunner (Ditto)
    • Giraffe Cavalry

    Siege Units
    • Light Artillery (The Civil War had howitzers, so...)
    • Railroad Artillery (Ditto. And this era certainly had railroads)
    • Artillery (See Light Artillery entry above)
    Land Vehicles
    • Steam Tank

    Healer Units

    • Field Veterinarian (Not entirely sure; placement is partly due to requirements and upgrade tree placement)
    • Medic (Ditto)
    • Medical Veterinarian (Ditto)
    • Machinist (Ditto)

    Feline Units

    • Police Cat (Though prototypical forms could easily go back much further)

    Canine Units

    • Police Dog (Ditto)

    Other Units

    • Diplomat- Industrial Era (Would be Diplomat- Late Modern Era)
    • Celebrity (Prototypical forms go back further, though. You could make a case for this being in the next era or the one after that)
    The Pre-Contemporary Era
    1900 AD-1925 AD

    Note: I can definitely see a case for merging this era (and at least some of its units) with the prior era or the one following.

    Ranged Ground Units

    • Trench Infantry
    • Modern Grenadier (Despite it being engrained in my conscioussness from Command & Conquer: Red Alert, I find this unit a big confusing. Aren't grenades basically used by standard infantry, rather than a specialized type of unit in their own right?
    • Anti-Tank
    • Trench Machine Gun
    • Flamethrower
    • Modern Imperial Guard (You could easily argue this is Late Modern)
    Great General/Warlord Units
    • Great Commander (That's the last of these. Still not sure what the story is with them, but the second largest conflict in human history and the time of the birth of the modern democratic world seems a good place to put them)
    • Warlord Commander (Ditto, although warlords would probably be rare in our worlds version of this era)
    Settler Unit: Pioneer

    Merchant Units

    • Freight (See notes on Postclassical Era units Supply Train and Food Supply Train)
    • Food Freight (Ditto)

    Scout Units

    • Motorcycle (Could be earlier for all I know. I initially would have guessed the next era for this one)
    Naval Units
    • Dreadnought
    • Battlecruiser (They seem to date from this era)
    • UBoat
    • Submarine,
    • QShip
    • Coast Guard Cutter (Not quite sure about this one; the concept is at least Early Modern, but the modern US Coast Guard was established in its current form in 1915, and this unit seems to be in the ballpark with that era)
    Law Enforcement Units
    • Police Car (I'm thinking of motorized wagons here, though you could argue those should come in near the tail end of the previous era, and you could also argue this should be in the next era or the one after that)
    Criminal Units
    • Assault Ship (Not quite sure about this one; it seems to be in the technological ballpark with this era)

    Cavalry Units

    • Trench Cavalry
    • Camel Trench Cavalry
    • Giraffe Trench Cavalry (How you'd fit a giraffe in a trench, I haven't the foggiest)
    Siege Units
    • Mortar (Could be earlier)
    • Big Bertha
    Land Vehicles
    • Armored Car
    • Early Tank
    • Anti Air Halftrack (There wouldn't be planes to shoot down before this, and besides, armoured motorized vehicles seem to date to this era)
    • Light Anti-Air Gun (Ditto)
    Air Support
    • Blimp
    • Early Fighter
    • Barrage Balloon (I initially thought this was going to be a Hot Air Balloon that dropped bombs on the enemy; perhaps that could be a new unit idea in its own right?)
    • Airship
    • Seaplane (Not entirely sure, could be in the next era)
    Healer Units
    • Ambulance (WWI)
    • Mechanic (Not quite sure, as with the previous era's healers)
    • Aviation Technician
    • Motor Pool (Could be later and perhaps even earlier)
    • Hospital Ship (Seems to be intended to be the ship equivalent of the Ambulance (WWI).)
    Other Units
    • Park Ranger (What with Teddy Roosevelt and all)
    The Early Contemporary Era
    1925 AD-1950 AD

    Ranged Ground Units
    • Infantry
    • Molotov Cocktail Thrower
    • Bazooka
    • Paratrooper
    • Machine Gun

    Settler Unit:
    Pioneer

    Worker Units

    • Modern Era Worker (Maybe should be renamed Contemporary Era Worker?)
    Merchant Units
    • Liberty Merchant (Although the concept of an ironclad merchant needs to be represented...)
    Counter-Animal Units
    • Jeep (Prototypical forms might go back at least to the previous era, though)
    Naval Units
    • Transport (There needs to be an earlier version of this, at least as far back as the previous era)
    • Landing Ship Tank (I don't believe WWI tanks ever got used this way, feel free to correct me as always)
    • Battleship
    • Destroyer
    • Heavy Cruiser (Not sure about this one)
    • Cruiser
    • Early Carrier
    Criminal Units
    • Mobster Car
    Siege Units

    • Mobile Artillery (Unsure, could be earlier)
    • Rocket Artillery (Ditto. Seems to represent things like the Katyusha)

    Land Vehicles

    • Amphibious APC (I think APCs date to this era?)
    • Medium Tank
    • Light Tank
    • Heavy Tank

    Air Support

    • Autogyro
    • Goliath Airship (Not entirely sure on this one)
    • Drache Helicopter
    • Propeller Fighter
    • Propeller Naval Fighter
    • Early Jet Fighter (I assume this represents German attempts at building jet aircraft?)
    • Propeller Bomber
    • Propeller Tactical Bomber
    • V1 Missile
    Healer Units
    • Ambulance (WWII)
    • Flight Technician (Placed here partly because of requirements and place in unit upgrade tree)
    • Auto Electrician (Ditto)
    • Hospital Ship II (Ditto, plus see Hospital Ship entry above)
    Other Units
    • Diplomat- Modern Era (This could easily be argued to be in the previous era or the one following this, what with the foundation of modern international diplomacy and all)
    The Middle Contemporary Era
    1950 AD-1990 AD

    Ranged Ground Units
    • Modern Infantry (A fair number of placements in this era are guesses based on requirements and placement in the unit upgrade tree)
    • Modern Marine
    • Modern Sniper
    • Modern Paratrooper
    • SAM Infantry
    • Modern Machine Gun
    • Modern Flamethrower
    • Militia (Modern) (Could be Militia (Contemporary)? Placed here as the successor to Partisans in the wake of Guerrilla Warfare)
    Settler Unit: Aircraft Settler (I wonder how often this unit has been used in our world? Scientology aside...)

    Merchant Units
    • Cargo Ship Merchant (Not entirely sure where this unit dates to)

    Counter-Animal Units

    There ought to be a helicopter-based hunter unit, IMO.

    Scout Units
    • Recon Plane (There seems to be prototypical forms of this in both World Wars, but planes specially built for this purpose seem to largely date to this era onward.)
    Naval Units
    • Modern Battleship
    • Modern Destroyer
    • Modern Frigate
    • Missile Cruiser (Given missiles seem to date to this era and all, excepting the V series)
    • Aegis Cruiser (I had this unit confused with a particular Digital epoch technology from Empire Earth)
    • Attack Submarine (Ditto)
    • Nuclear Submarine
    • Carrier
    • Hovercraft
    Law Enforcement Units
    • Police APC (Non-military APCs seem to date to the latter parts of this era)
    • SWAT Team (Seems to date to around the 60s or 70s)
    • Police Helicopter
    Criminal Units
    • Guerrilla
    • Biker Gang (Seems to be heavily intertwined with the culture of post-war homosexual former servicemen, not to mention civilian motorcycle ownership seems to be at least partly a product of the prosperity of the 1950s)
    • Street Gang (Seems to date to around the 70s or so)
    • Robber (Could be at least one era earlier. Seems to be have partial elements of the "armed blag")
    Espionage Units
    • Special Forces (Wasn't sure where to put these guys. Modern Special Forces seem to have developed in the wake of the Waffen SS, although you can can certainly make an argument for this unit or a new predecessor going back a lot further)
    • Special Agent (Seems to date from around this era, although prototypical forms likely existed prior)
    Cavalry Units
    • Attack Helicopter
    • Helicopter Gunship
    Land Vehicles
    • Modern APC
    • Main Battle Tank
    • Mobile SAM
    Air Support
    • Jet Fighter
    • Jet Naval Fighter
    • F14 Tomcat
    • Jet Interceptor
    • Jet Bomber
    • Supersonic Bomber (Placed here based on the Concord)
    • Early Stealth Bomber
    • Jet Tactical Bomber
    • Guided Missile

    Healer Units
    • Medevac Helicopter
    • Jet Technician
    Other Units
    • Ecologist (Conservationism seems to date at least this far back)
    • Space Shuttle
    The Late Contemporary Era
    1990 AD-2050 AD


    Ranged Ground Units

    • Powered Exoskeleton Infantry
    • Hi-Tech Marine
    • Unmanned Machine Gun
    • EMP SAM Infantry
    Settler Unit: Aircraft Settler

    Scout Units

    • Humvee
    • Hypersonic Recon Plane (A borderline case with this era and the next)
    • Recon Drone
    Naval Units
    • Stiletto Boat
    • Stealth Destroyer (These placements are largely based on stealth technology seeming a late 80s/early 90s thing to me)
    • Littoral Combat Ship
    • Stealth Submarine (Ditto)
    • Modern Carrier
    • Modern Hovercraft
    Espionage Units
    • Hacker (Although you can make an argument prototypical forms of this unit date back to the previous era)
    Cavalry Units
    • Stealth Gunship (See entry for Stealth Destroyer above)
    • Hybrid Gunship (Placed partly because of requirements+place in upgrade tree, partly because I'm assuming this is running partly off biofuel)
    • Drone Helicopter
    Siege Units
    • NLOS Cannon (Although the concept certainly dates back earlier)
    Land Vehicles
    • Hi-Tech APC (The Hi-Tech (with the hyphen) units seem to be in this eras vein)
    • ACV
    • Modern Armor (I'm guessing this represents things like the M1 Abrams? If so, this might fit better near the end of the previous era)
    • ACV SAM
    Air Support
    • Modern Fighter
    • Modern Naval Fighter
    • Modern Interceptor
    • Stealth Fighter (See the entry for Stealth Destroyer above)
    • Stealth Interceptor (Ditto)
    • Hypersonic Fighter (See the Hypersonic Recon Plane entry above)
    • Stealth Bomber (This one seems to be along the lines of the B2, quite an icon of this era's military technology)
    • Drone Tactical Bomber
    • Precision Attack Missile (I think these date to either the 80s or 90s, and should be placed accordingly)
    Healer Units
    • Programmer
    • Software Developer
    • Medical Lab Technician (Could be earlier or later, depending on how it is edited and conceived)
    • Modern Medevac Helicopter
    The Near Future Era
    2050 AD-2200 AD

    Note: As stated, my approach and pepper2000's diverge at this point. Placement here should, for main C2C purposes, be taken solely to say that these units (at least most of them) belong in this era and that I anticipate them being developed in some form during this timespan.
    Ranged Ground Units
    • Automated Infantry (These units seem a real mess with a lot of overlap, both in terms of form (Warbot Infantry vs Droid Infantry vs Automatons vs Android Infantry vs Sentroid Infantry) and function. I hope this mess will be cleared once we come to refining the future eras)
    • Chrome Infantry
    • Warbot Infantry
    • Tesla Infantry
    • Clone Infantry
    • Droid Infantry
    • Automatons
    • Power Armored Infantry
    • Android Infantry
    • Cyborg
    • Sentroid Infantry
    • Organic Infantry
    • Genetic Soldier
    • Special Infantry
    • Anthroid Infantry
    • High Tech Sniper
    • Super Soldier
    • Plasmathrower
    • Robotic Imperial Guard

    Settler Unit:
    Spacecraft Settler (Could easily be argued to be next era)

    Worker Units

    • Clones
    • Android
    • Constructor Ship (Could possibly be argued to be late Late Contemporary)
    Merchant Units
    • Scout Droid
    • Unmanned Trike
    Naval Units
    • Fusion Transport (I figure the discovery of Fusion will come as one of the turning points between Late Contemporary and Near Future)
    • Fusion Battleship
    • Fusion Destroyer
    • Fusion Cruiser
    • Fusion Submarine
    • Fusion Carrier
    • Hi-Tech Hovercraft (Placed here because of requirements+place in upgrade tree+Modern Hovercraft. An exception to the rule of Hi-Tech=Late Contemporary)
    Law Enforcement Units
    • Sentinel
    • Police Mech
    Criminal Units
    • Technarchist (This brings me back to the gem that was Call to Power II. I keep meaning to start a whole new thread dedicated to bringing over ideas from that game.)
    Cavalry Units
    • Droid Helicopter
    Siege Units
    • Assault Droid (The distinction between this and Siege Droid eludes me)
    • Siege Droid
    • Hover Artillery (Likewise, the distinction between this and Levitation Artillery. Is Hover Artillery meant to be like hovercraft? If so, perhaps it should be Late Contemporary instead)
    • Walker Artillery
    • Levitation Artillery
    Land Vehicles
    • Walker Robot (What's the difference between this and Walker Mech?
    • Anti-Personnel Mech
    • Shockwave APC (Not entirely sure if this should be Near Future or late Late Contemporary)
    • Walker Mech
    • Hi-Tech Robot
    • Electric Tank (Fairly tentative, this one)
    • Thermobaric Tank
    • Droid Tank
    • Dreadnought Armor
    • Stealth Armor (I initially took this to be a stealth modern MBT, and thus thought it'd be somewhere in Late Contemporary)
    Air Support
    • Orbital Fighter (To clarify, I think there will be limited lunar and Martian colonization during this era, but not much else)
    • Orbital Bomber
    Healer Units
    • Medevac Dropship
    • Replication Mechanic
    • Astronautic Technician (I considered placing this one in the next era, but see above)
    • Service Droid
    • Nanite Repair Cloud
    • Anima Repair Cloud
    Feline Units
    • Felis Superior
    Canine Units
    • Canis Superior
    Other Units
    • Nanite Swarm​
    • Nanite Cloud​
    • Heavy Rocket (I assume this is meant to represent the next step beyond the Space Shuttle? If so, I'd put it in this era)​
    The Far Future Era
    2200 AD-3000 AD

    Note: To clarify, my own vision for this era has it starting at a Firefly level of technology, going through a Mass Effect level, then ending at around a Freelancer level of technology. This will only be present in my modmod, of course.

    Also, this era is sparse in units, due to the fact a starfleet hasn't been developed much, even (to my knowledge) by pepper2000.
    Settler Unit: Seedship
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  4. Praetyre

    Praetyre King

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Almanac Guide to the Long Chronology (WIP)
    Spoiler :

    Paleolithic Era
    Beginning Date: 200,000 or 50,000 BC
    Beginning Events: For the 200,000 BC date, the emergence of Homo sapiens sapiens. For the 50,000 BC date, the first undisputed evidence of human behavioural modernity and the beginning of the Upper Paleolithic.
    Notable Events: Early Homo sapiens sapiens migrations (dates uncertain, but prior to 50,000 BC), last glacial period (the period most commonly referred to as the "ice age") (c.110,000-c.11,700 BC).
    Notable Civilizations: With very few exceptions, there are no recorded human cultures which exist or have existed at this level; among those very few exceptions are some Australian Aborigines, some Papuans, and the Khoisan "bushmen" of South Africa (who from what I've read deliberately keep to a hunter-gatherer lifestyle for practical reasons; they could go Neolithic if they wanted to but don't). As such, while music did exist in the latter parts of this era, we don't really have much of an idea as to what it sounded like.
    Gameplay: In many ways I see this period as being akin to an earlier "stage" of the gaming-disappointment-of-the-last-decade that was Spore; your goal is to survive until your human capital increases to the stage that further development becomes possible. In C2C terms, this is when the Nomadic Start mechanics would be active (although I realise some want to retain such options for later eras to represent the likes of the Mongols or the Huns).
    Atmosphere/Music: Partly because of the enigmatic nature of this era, as well as the aforementioned lack of knowledge about its music (we know that music existed in the form of what appears to be musical instruments, but beyond that, virtually nothing), I go primarily for primordial, natural sounds suggestive of virgin wilderness untouched by human civilization, of a time before time which may well be alien to our cultural terms (at least in the earlier start dates), and of generically "caveman" type music (such as The Pre-History Channel, my most wildly successful addition to C2C's soundtrack). Music from Paleolithic cultures provides a small supplement as well.
    Neolithic Era
    Beginning Date: 10,000 BC
    Beginning Events: End of last glacial period, Neolithic Revolution (including the development of agriculture and sedentary lifestyles)
    Notable Events: Göbekli Tepe dates to this period (its earliest usage dates before 10,000 BC, but it should be kept in mind the dates are not 100% precise and that outliers do exist), as does Stonehenge. Many Middle Eastern urban communities date to this era, including the likes of Damascus and Jericho. It is likely a vast amount of unknown history occurred during this period, but we can probably be reasonably sure it wasn't on the scale of the empires of antiquity. It is probable the religions referred to in C2C as Druidism, Shamanism, Mesopotamism, Yoruba, Ngaiism, Hinduism, Canaanism, and Kemetism date to this era, and possible that the earliest forms of Tengriism, Shintoism, Andeanism, Rodnovera, Asatru, Hellenism, Naghualism, and Voodoo do as well.
    Notable Civilizations: Entry into the Neolithic was relatively synchronized across the world, likely indicating the end of the last ice age as a major trigger for the Neolithic Revolution. Most of non-Minoan or Greek Europe prior to Classical Antiquity existed at a Neolithic level, as did the Proto-Indo-Europeans (possibly the first link in the Western and/or European chain). The vast majority of indigenous peoples existed and in some cases still exist at this level, ranging from the Native Americans (the Anasazi/Ancestral Puebloans, Mississippians and Mound Builders being particularly late in it) to the Polynesians to much of pre-colonial Africa to most uncontacted peoples (such as the uncontacted Amazonian tribes and the Sentinelese, as well as contacted Negrito peoples of South and Southeast Asia).
    Gameplay: Gameplay and atmosphere is reminiscent of current-C2C's Prehistoric; a sense of gradual snowballing development in a dangerous world that gets smaller and less intimidating as man masters it. There is also the addition of inter-human warfare, allowing players to split their military into anti-animal and anti-human tasks, as well as develop their weapons and armour, the most advanced of which would be the likes of copper or obsidian weapons with leather armour.
    Atmosphere/Music: Music is, as mentioned, tribal and suggestive of village/town pastoral life. It is more culturally recognizable, often having a Native American or other indigenous feel.
    Ancient Era
    Bronze Age
    Early Bronze Age

    Beginning Date: 3000 BC
    Beginning Events: Development of writing (Sumerian cuneiform, c.3300 BC; note that the independent development of writing is a contested topic; it is generally agreed that Olmec pictograms developed seperately from the writing systems of the Old World; other candidates include Egyptian hieroglyphics (the symbolic basis for their language is known to be independent of Sumerian cuneiform), Chinese oracle bone script (it is possible the idea, if not the format of writing was brought to China by traders) and Rongorongo, a still undeciphered series of glyphs which may or may not be writing found on Rapa Nui (Easter Island). and bronze metallurgy.
    Notable Events: Construction of the Giza necropolis (c. 2500 BC); it should be noted that the Sphinx may date back even earlier than this era. The oldest surviving copies of The Epic of Gilgamesh, history's oldest known great literary work, date to this period (c. 2100 BC)
    Notable Civilizations: Sumer (Jemdet Nasr period, Early Dynastic Period, then the Gutian Dynasty after Akkadian rule, then the Third Dynasty of Ur (AKA the Neo-Sumerian Empire).), Egypt (Early Dynastic, Old Kingdom), Minoans, Proto-Elamites and Elamites in what is now Iran, Harappans (Indus Valley Civilization), the Akkadian Empire would arise as history's first known empire towards the latter half of this era, under Sargon of Akkad, Assyria (Early Period)
    Gameplay: The emergence of civilization as we know it, with a particular focus on empire-building, developments of formal religious structures in relation to empire-building, and monument construction.
    Atmosphere/Music: Something of a throwback to the Paleolithic Era; even the civilized tracks have a kind of primordial feel to them, representing the dawning of great civilizations. Predominantly Egyptian, Mesopotamian and Ancient Near Eastern, as with the rest of the Bronze Age.
    Middle Bronze Age
    Beginning Date: 2000 BC
    Beginning Events: ???
    Notable Events: Promulgation of the Code of Hammurabi, one of the first legal codes in the world (date uncertain, it depends a lot on what chronology you use). Founding of Judaism through Abraham (c. 1900 BC), as well as the Exodus (c. 1447 BC).
    Notable Civilizations: Egypt (First Intermediate Period, Middle Kingdom, Second Intermediate Period), Minoans, Elam, Harappans, Assyria (Old Assyrian Empire) would continue to be major players, new players would include the likes of Babylon (First Babylonian Dynasty AKA the Paleo-Babylonian Empire, which would include the reign of Hammurabi), China (Xia Dynasty, Shang Dynasty), Olmecs, Phoenicians, Hittites (whose number may have included Homeric Troy). The Harappans would eventually decline and be replaced by the Vedic civilization, ruled over by invading Indo-Aryans, and the Minoans would exist contemporaneously with and eventually be supplanted by the Mycenean Greeks. Sumer would see its last gasp in the form of the Dynasty of Isin.
    Gameplay: Basically like current-C2C's Classical; big empires, with something of a focus on internal development. Hints of the contemplative Classical Antiquity begin to emerge, manifesting in developments in religion and religion-as-science.
    Atmosphere/Music: A balance of primality and refinement, reflecting a stable and continuously developing network of civilizations. Hints of development in other parts of the world, particularly the Far East.
    Late Bronze Age
    Beginning Date: 1200 BC
    Beginning Events: ???
    Notable Events: The enigmatic Sea Peoples would menace Egypt and much of the Mediterranean during this period, possibly originating somewhere from the Caucuses. The Kingdom of Israel seems to date to this period, including the luxuriant reign of Solomon.
    Notable Civilizations: Egypt (New Kingdom, Third Intermediate Period), Minoans, Elam, India (Vedic period), Assyria (Old Assyrian Empire, Middle Assyrian Empire), Babylon (Kassite dynasty) China (Zhou Dynasty), Olmecs, Phoenicians, Hittites, Myceneans.
    Gameplay: Big, decadent empires thriving off interconnected trade networks; probably a time a player will want to offload some cash by setting up colonies in less-travelled parts of the world. With big money comes political intrigue, and the player may end up having to face threats from within (such as Revolution problems or crime, for starters) as well as threats from without.
    Atmosphere/Music: Music suggestive of a refined yet decadent network of empires at the peak of its power, but with trouble and strife ahead.
    Classical Antiquity (reduced to a more lime shade of green to make it legible on Civfanatics; will remain yellow ingame)
    Archaic Period
    Beginning Date: 800 BC
    Beginning Events: The Late Bronze Age collapse, fittingly enough, marks the end of the Bronze Age. Troy falls to the might of the Achaean Greeks, the economies of the major trading empires collapse, and disease and barbarians ravage the numerous links in the Late Bronze Age trading chain. The beginning of this era, and of Classical Antiquity generally, is marked by the rise of the Greek city-states, the First Olympiad, the invention of the Greek alphabet (likely inspired by the Phoenician), the first known non-Judaic author in the Western canon in the form of Homer, and of course, the founding of Rome, likely by Trojan refugees.
    Notable Events: This period overlaps with part of the Axial Age, which saw simultaneous and seemingly independent developments in Persia (possibly including the life of the Prophet Zoroaster and/or the founding/reformation of Zoroastrianism), India (including the life of Buddha and the founding of Buddhism), China (including the life of Confucius and the subsequent founding of Confucianism, as well as the life of Laozi, founder of Taoism; both figures lived during the Spring and Autumn Period, a time roughly corresponding to the first half of the Eastern Zhou Dynasty), and the Greco-Roman world (including the time of the pre-Socratics). This period would also see the end of the Old Testament era (in the form of the Book of Malachi exhorting the Jews to keep the faith in the wake of the Babylonian Captivity)
    Notable Civilizations: Egypt (Late Period), Elam and Achamaenid Empire, India (Vedic period), Assyria (Neo-Assyrian Empire), Babylon (Neo-Babylonian Empire), China (Eastern Zhou), Olmecs, Phoenicians, Etruscans, Rome (Roman Kingdom), Carthage (an offshoot of the Phoenicians, ironically founded roughly around the same time as what would become its most hated rival, Rome), Medes
    Gameplay: Overall, this is a time of quiet development and philosophical emergence, with a great deal of political decentralization.
    Atmosphere/Music: Music is something of a throwback to the Neolithic, reflecting the more tribal underpinnings of this era, but with definite elements characterizing the music of Classical Antiquity, such as harps, lyres, and trumpets. This era has been partially inspired (both in terms of aesthetics and more concrete matters) by the first era in Age of Mythology, as well as the intros and early stages of Caesar III and CivCity: Rome.
    High Classical Period

    Beginning Date: 500 BC
    Beginning Events: I see two pivotal events as marking the beginning of this era, both of them Greco-Roman. The first of which is the fall of the Roman Kingdom and the foundation of the Roman Republic, and the second of which is the overthrow of the last Athenian tyrant and emergence of Athenian democracy.
    Notable Events: Most of the non-mythological events and people that most people know about from Ancient Greece date to this two-century period, ranging from the likes of Pericles and Leonidas to Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle. China would see the Warring States period, the first of many periods of strife and disunity in its history.
    Notable Civilizations: Egypt (Late Period), Achamaenid Empire, China (Eastern Zhou), Olmecs, Rome (Roman Republic), Greece (Classical Greece)
    Gameplay: Gameplay is a flowering of the groundwork laid in the Archaic Period, along with rise of new civilizations with some basis in the old empires of the Bronze Age.
    Atmosphere/Music: Music is bright, high Classical Antiquity, with harps, lyres and gentle, soothing tones that lift up the spirit and awaken the mind.

    Hellenistic Period

    Beginning Date: 300 BC
    Beginning Events: Death of Alexander the Great.
    Notable Events: This era was primarily defined by the aftermath of Alexander, with successor states led by his generals, friends and family (collectively referred to as the diadochi) dividing up his empire into smaller empires of their own. This era would also be marked by the height of Greek influence and power, with Koine Greek becoming the de facto lingua franca of the Hellenistic world. This era is also the heyday of the Roman Republic (509 BC-27 BC), which would see its greatest conflict, the Punic Wars (264 BC-146 BC), against its greatest rival, Carthage. Earlier, it would also see conflict with Epirus, one of whose kings, Pyrrhus (318 BC-272 BC), would become one of the Roman Republic's greatest enemies, and who would go on to briefly make his kingdom the greatest Greek polity in the Hellenistic world (280 BC-275 BC). The end of this brief zenith would come partly as a result of several costly victories while on campaign in Italy, for which the term "Pyrrhic victory" would be coined. Elsewhere, the mighty Chinese State of Qin (9th century BC-221 BC) would go on to unify China into the unprecedented Qin Empire (221 BC-206 BC), the very first empire in the Sinic world, which would unify all of said world under one ruler, though the dynasty would prove to be short lived, and would be succeeded by what is perhaps China's most famous imperial dynasty, the Han (206 BC-220 AD).
    Notable Civilizations: Egypt (Ptolemaic Kingdom), Seleucid Empire and Parthian Empire, India (Maurya Empire), China (Eastern Zhou, Qin Dynasty, Eighteen Kingdoms, Han Dynasty), Rome (Roman Republic), Greece (Hellenistic Greece), Epirus, Xiongnu Empire, Korea (Gojoseon, Jin, Proto-Three Kingdoms)
    Gameplay: Application of Axial Age concepts to new empires, allowing the social evolution beyond the pyramidal caste systems of the Bronze Age to spread beyond the homeland.
    Atmosphere/Music: Still civilized and fairly bright, but with a morose and contemplative undertone. My conceptualization of this era has been greatly influenced by the classic (no pun intended) strategy game Rome: Total War, as well as its two most prominent historically-based total conversion mods, Rome: Total Realism and Europa Barbarorum.
    Imperial Period
    Beginning Date: 50 BC
    Beginning Events: Assassination of Julius Caesar, rise of Augustus.
    Notable Events: The entirety of the New Testament dates to this period (c. 6-4 BC-c. 100 AD). In China, the Han Dynasty would be briefly interrupted by the short-lived Xin dynasty (9 AD-23 AD), whose sole Emperor, former Han Dynasty official Wang Mang (c. 45 BC-6 October 23 AD). would prove an ambitious and creative but incompetent ruler, and would be killed in the siege of his capital, the ancient city of Chang'an by peasant rebels. The Han Dynasty would be restored by the descendants of the Han imperial clan, ushering in the Eastern Han Dynasty (5 August 25 AD-220 AD). China would then enter a long period of strife and disunity following the collapse of the Eastern Han Dynasty, the first period following said dynasty being the Three Kingdoms period (220 AD-280 AD), during which China would be divided among three would-be empires, each headed by an Emperor claiming legitimacy and succession from the Han Dynasty, namely the Wei (220 AD-265 AD), the Shu Han (221 AD-263 AD), and the Eastern Wu/Sun Wu (220 AD-280 AD).
    Notable Civilizations: Rome (Roman Empire), Parthian Empire, China (Western Han Dynasty, Xin Dynasty, Eastern Han Dynasty, Three Kingdoms, Jin Dynasty (265-420 AD)), Xiongnu Empire, Korea (Three Kingdoms)
    Gameplay: Empire building on an almost unprecedented scale, rising to encompass all or almost all of the known civilized world. A kind of proto-urbanization, along with both the benefits and corresponding malaise of such.
    Atmosphere/Music: Triumphalist, imperious trumpeting, marching and glory. A time of wealth, prosperity and culture eclipsing even that of the Late Bronze Age, and featuring many advancements in science, the arts, culture, and religion. My conceptualization of this era in secular terms has been influenced primarily by, in no particular order, The Adventures of Asterix, the classic City Building Series entry Caesar III (which would begin a golden age for said series) and its somewhat less successful spiritual successor in CivCity: Rome.


    Late Antiquity

    Beginning Date: 300 AD
    Beginning Events: Crisis of the Third Century, Constantine issuing the Edict of Milan, which granted legal recognition to Christianity throughout the empire(s).
    Notable Events: Following the deep, profound and long lasting Crisis of the Third Century, Rome would be permanently wounded by strife and discontent, and would never again rise to the heights of its glory it enjoyed under the Emperor Trajan (18 September 83 AD-8 August 117 AD), much less Augustus. Following the aforementioned Crisis, the Emperor Diocletian (c. 22 December 244 AD-3 December 312 AD) would begin (285 AD) the first of many ultimately unsuccesful attempts to divide power (imperium) in the empire, which would ultimately lead to the empire being split in half, one, the old, Western Roman Empire, being based in Rome, the other of which, the Eastern Roman Empire (285 AD-1453 AD), based in the far smaller and more obscure town of Byzantium (founded as a Greek colony c. 657 BC), would go on to outlast its parent by almost a thousand years. In 330 AD, Emperor Constantine would go on to "found" the city of Constantinople (330 AD-1453 AD), which would outlast its sister metropolis in Rome as the European city, and remain a bastion of Christian civilization through much of the Postclassical Era. This time would also see the Migration Period, during which Rome would be challenged by many barbarian invasions, which would lay some of the groundwork for the European Christendom to come, as well as the emergence of the Maya during their Classic period. Mahayana Buddhism would also spread throughout Asia, as would Taoism in China.
    Notable Civilizations: Rome (Western Roman Empire, Eastern Roman Empire), Sasanian Empire, India (Gupta Empire), China (Jin Dynasty (265-420 AD), Northern and Southern dynasties), Xiongnu Empire, Korea (Three Kingdoms), Goths, Vandals, Huns, Maya (Classic Period)
    Gameplay: New religions rise, while aging empires struggle to maintain their hegemony. Power becomes more decentralized, allowing more minor players to play pivotal roles and wield greater influence over regional or even continental affairs.
    Atmosphere/Music: Dark, somber, haunting music, with a religious air. A dying empire no longer at its apex, sinking into the night. My conceptualization of this era in secular terms has been formed by my experience with Rome: Total War's first expansion pack, Rome: Total War: Barbarian Invasion. It is likely that its partial spiritual successor, Total War: Attila will come to influence my conceptualization of this era also. I envision this era as almost a sort of pre-post apocalyptic setting, with the sun setting on Classical civilization and its people cowering in fear at the thought of what will come when said sun finally sets.

    Postclassical Era
    Low Middle Ages


    Beginning Date: 500 AD
    Beginning Events: Death of the last Roman-born Western Roman Emperor, closure of the revived, Neoplatonic academy by Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian I.
    Notable Events: This would be a highly tumultuous time within Europe, as the feudal system (partly inspired by Roman manorialism) would take hold, splitting Europe into thousands of baronies, counties, duchies and kingdoms. The coronation of Charlemagne (800 AD), formerly King Karl of West Francia, appointed Holy Roman Emperor by longtime benefactee Pope St. Leo III, would usher in the Carolingian Renaissance (late 8th century AD-9th century AD), a period during which both the sciences and the humanities would advance among the newly created Holy Roman Empire's elites. To the north, the Vikings would enter their golden age in the form of the Viking Age (late 8th century AD-mid 11th century AD), ravaging much of Northern Europe in the process and settling the northern coast of France, an area that would later become known as the Duchy of Normandy (911 AD-1259 AD). This period would prove a surprisingly bright one in the Middle East, which would see Arabia take its first steps on the world stage in the form of Muhammad (c. 570 AD-8 June, 632 AD), who would prove not only an adept merchant and conqueror, but the prophet of a new faith claiming to restore messages it saw as corrupted through Judaism and Christianity, Islam. Islam would go on to spread not only throughout the Middle East, but to Africa and eventually parts of Spain, South Asia and Southeast Asia as well, becoming one of the largest religions in the world. The Tang Dynasty would briefly be interrupted by the reign of China's only Empress Regnant, Wu Zetian (624 AD-December 16, 705 AD), the sole Empress of the Zhou Dynasty (690 AD-705 AD).
    Notable Civilizations: Eastern Roman Empire, Sasanian Empire, India (Gupta Empire, Medieval Cholas), China (Sui Dynasty, Tang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty (690-705 AD), then Tang Dynasty again, Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Period), Korea (Three Kingdoms, North-South States Period, Later Three Kingdoms) Maya (Classic Period), Franks (incl. Francia and later the Holy Roman Empire), Norse, Arabia (Rashidun Caliphate, Umayyad Caliphate, Abassid Caliphate), Khitan (Liao Empire), Tibet (Tibetan Empire), Indonesia (Srivijaya Empire)
    Gameplay: The new religions and philosophies birthed in Classical Antiquity come to the fore, allowing a higher degree of desire to understand the world, and thus permit an increased scientific base and desire for decentralization; feudalism is birthed in the aftermath of the aging empires of antiquity, with the player contending for control with minor civs, barbarian factions, internal rivals, and treacherous vassals.
    Atmosphere/Music: Dark, rural, with a distinct Eastern European vibe. A time of great decentralization, about which little is known and littler still is understood. A distinct religious air pervades this time also, though not to the same extent as its successor. My conception of this era has been partially influenced by the 2007 Polish action-RPG The Witcher, though I have not yet completed it nor played its sequels.

    High Middle Ages

    Beginning Date: 1000 AD
    Beginning Events: Battle of Hastings and subsequent Norman conquest of England, Viking proto-settlement of the New World.
    Notable Events: While nowhere near as large, zealotry-driven or violent as many mistakenly believe them to be, the Crusades (1096 AD-13th century AD) would nevertheless exert an impact in political, economic, and cultural terms throughout this subera and beyond. One of these more immediate effects would see Richard I, (6 July 1189 AD-6 April 1199 AD) King of England and better known as "Richard the Lionhearted", away on the Third Crusade (1189 AD-1192 AD), leaving his brother, Prince John (24 December 1166 AD-19 October 1216 AD) to rule in his stread. Prince John would prove an unpopular ruler, at least with some factions of the aristocracy, who would force John, now King of England, to sign the Magna Carta Libertatum (15 June 1215 AD), a document which would prove significant in the future development of England's unwritten constitution, and indeed in the future legal and jurisprudential history of the West, especially in England's descendant nations. Neither side would abide by this peace agreement, however, leading to the First Barons' War (1215 AD-1217 AD), during which England would be occupied for 16 months by the forces of Prince Louis (5 September 1187 AD-8 November 1226 AD) of the Kingdom of France, which Prince Louis would later rule as King Louis VIII. This invasion would ultimately be repelled and the political situation returned to status quo ante bellum, albeit with some concessions by King John of England to the barons.
    Notable Civilizations: Mongolia (Mongol Empire, would later fracture into 4 smaller empires,
    the Ilkhanate, the Chagatai Khanate, the Golden Horde, and the Yuan Dynasty) China (Song Dynasty, its first subperiod, the Northern Song Dynasty, would coexist with the Western Xia Empire, led by and the only known political entity associated with the Tangut people, its latter subperiod, the Southern Song Dynasty, would coexist with the Jurchen-led Jin Dynasty (1115-1234 AD), Korea (Goryeo), Maya (Postclassic Period), Holy Roman Empire, Norse, Arabia (Abassid Caliphate), Khitan (Liao Empire), Indonesia (Srivijaya Empire), France (Capetian dynasty) England (House of Normandy, House of Plantagenet)

    Gameplay: As things settle down after the Low Middle Ages, there is more time for contemplation. Religion and science integrate and rise to new heights, allowing the foundations of the modern world to be laid. This is the height of the castle, and siege weaponry correspondingly advances to match.
    Atmosphere/Music: This subera is likely the easiest to identify in terms of musical, stylistic and thematic direction. A mix of bucholicity and religious contemplation. A civilization that looks not only towards the Earth, but Heaven. A land of wonder, where fairy tales are made. (Though in many cases, not set or written).

    Late Middle Ages

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    Early Modern Era
    Renaissance


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    Contemporary Era
    Atomic Era


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    Information Era (currently purple in C2C)
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    Last edited: Apr 25, 2018
  5. Praetyre

    Praetyre King

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    Bumping this since I think people might have mistakenly thought this thread was just for me to post my ideas rather than to have discussions regarding these ideas, and because Hydro's been seen around these parts lately.

    I also should note I:
    • Have moved Late Antiquity from 250 AD to 300 AD, and think a case can be made for moving the Imperial Period from 50 BC to 1 BC/1 AD (for one thing, it makes the last two suberas of Classical Antiquity come out even).
    • No longer favour what was formerly Transhuman being split into two eras.
    • Think the middle subera of what was formerly Renaissance should be called the Baroque Period, and the first subera of Industrial (assuming Industrial starts around 1800) should be called the Romantic Period, not the Early Industrial Age.

    Also, I feel I should note that despite my lack of posting, I've been quite busy over the last couple of months working on two C2C-related projects, one being a massive music compilation for my own use (though I'd be happy to release portions of it to the public in some form) which ties in my new eras/suberas, and the other being an almanac outlining my favoured "expansive" plan for eras and suberas.

    As part of writing said almanac (which I'll probably be finished with within 1-3 months), I've decided the Neolithic Era should be given the colour of maroon, which I feel is fitting for an era "in-between" the Paleolithic Era and the Ancient Era. On a thematic level, bright red could represent the "red in tooth and claw" world of the Paleolithic (as well as fire, of course), while maroon is more "earthy", "calm" and "settled", akin to mudbrick, while orange is grander but still mudbrick-esque (though i don't mean that most of Ancient should overlap much with Neolithic, especially if we go with merging Praetyre!Ancient and Classical). Don't know how feasible this is, but it would be my preference (I think I've heard the colours for eras may be hardcoded in a particular way, and there's also BUG to consider).
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
  6. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I'm in favor of a 200k BC start date. The more I review and learn regarding history, I can firmly say I believe Humanity to have begun around this time where we experienced a rapid evolution event that brought us to what we are. If it's a little before 'behavioral' modernity, that's good because those steps into that can be shown on the tech tree.

    For the eventual nomadic start, this makes sense more than any date, and it would be nice to have a more chaotic changing landscape while we wander about the map.


    As for the end date, the date is less relevant. However, I'm pretty enamored of the idea of the 'transhuman age'. So abandoning that term would kinda suck imo. When I began with this mod I didn't realize what a powerful social term Transhumanism actually is, but having done a lot of reading on the subject since, it definitely captures the essence of the era. It may be a bit too long and could be drawn out into an era of full AI sentience afterwards (during which Transhumanism does continue but that starts to become more about Humans trying to keep up and stay relevant in light of the rapid pace of advancements of raw AI neural networks.)
     
  7. GameBoy2000

    GameBoy2000 Warlord

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    Just wondering, but what version of civ would this before? Just curios because if it would be for 5 or 6 I'd be very much interested, other wise I'd have to force myself away from this page and try to forget about it. (I on;y have 5 and 6, I don't need another civ game until 7 comes out.)
     
  8. pepper2000

    pepper2000 King

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    Praetyre: did you see my era split in the space colonization thread? I went for a 15 era system, though two of them would not be applicable in the main mod.
     
  9. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Even once we have multimaps?
     
  10. pepper2000

    pepper2000 King

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    The final two eras, Cosmic Era and Transcendent Era, consist almost entirely of techs that are in the modmod. The eras will be fine for the main mod if those techs are integrated too.
     
  11. Praetyre

    Praetyre King

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    Well, I myself am of the view that behavioral modernity may be synonymous with what under an Aristotelian metaphysics would be considered the creation (by God) of the immaterial, rational human soul, one which does not simply possess vegetative powers of nutrition, growth and reproduction, and animal powers of sentience, appetition and locomotion, but the specifically rational (and, per Aristotelian metaphysics and philosophy of mind vis a vis hylomorphic dualism, immaterial) powers of intellect (the grasping of abstract concepts and logical reasoning) and volition (free will).

    Of course, just because evidence of behavioral modernity shows up around the start of the Upper Paleolithic, that doesn't necessarily mean it started there. For one thing, Neanderthals, who predate Homo sapiens sapiens by 50,000 years, show signs of having rational souls.

    For another thing (and I'll admit I'm heading into quite speculative territory here), I consider it quite possible that Y-chromosomal Adam and Mitochondrial Eve are the same people as the Biblical Adam and Eve. There is a quite interesting series of posts by an Aristotelian-Thomistic/Neo-Scholastic philosopher whose blog I lurk regularly on regarding reconciling biological evidence of all current living human beings descending from a group of no fewer than a couple of thousand individuals. You can check these out if you want to here, here, here, and here.

    The long of short of it is that Feser (the professor in question) and the authors he's quoting draw a distinction between being physically human and being a rational animal, and posits that during man's early history God specifically ensouled two human beings who went on (and/or their descendants went on) to interbreed with physically humans not possessing rational souls, with mixed offspring having souls, and non-rational souled humans eventually dying out.

    Note that a committment to Aristotelianism does not entail any doctrine of original sin by itself; Feser is discussing it specifically from a Catholic perspective, though other Christians could also believe in said hypothesis, even and inclduin those Christians who aren't committed to any form of Aristotelianism).

    My intention in mentioning this is not to proselytize, but to mention that I would have a particular view of my own (though I am obviously far from the only person to have held it) regarding man's origins and the Paleolithic, and that extending the start date far deeper into man's prehistory than it is now would raise these special issues.

    I realise others may not share my views and that the goal here is not necessarily a representation of man's prehistory in accordance with my views, but as you mentioned yours I felt it was only fair for me to add my two cents (one which, despite our disagreements in other areas, I think Joe might echo).

    I'm not sure why you think 200,000 BC would make more sense for a nomadic start than 50,000 BC. In both cases, you have a world populated in part by egalitarian hunter-gatherer bands of no more than 30-50 individuals each. Its true that these egalitarian hunter gatherer bands might have spread across more of the globe by the dawn of the Upper Paleolithic, but much of the world would still be uninhabited by Homo sapiens sapiens (and shifting the date this far back might merit adding other hominid species as well). They also may have had concepts like religion, clothing, weaving, ceremonial burial, more advanced tools and so on (I for reasons above am sympathetic to the hypothesis of some early 20th century anthropologists that the original human religion was monotheistic) but that wouldn't really be game-changing to the nomadic start the way, say, agriculture is (I'm of the view agriculture and sedentism are the most significant secular development in man's history, above even the Industrial Revolution)

    Well, as someone committed to a dualist philosophy of mind, I don't think "hard" AI by purely material (physical) means is metaphysically possible. Though the concept of some Catholic equivalent of the Jewish golem whereby a priest ensouls a machine is quite an interesting one. I realise, of course, that may not make for as entertaining a fiction (similar to how I think civics shouldn't be realistic in their effects else you get imbalance and RL arguments). For the same reasons, I think many (though not all) aspects of the transhumanist programme (brain uploading, for example) are similarly dead ends.

    Leaving that aside, though, my changes to the Transhuman Era are mostly cosmetic and aesthetical; I see transhumanism as but one of many paths humanity can take in the next couple centuries, and from the point of view of creating interesting fiction, I think that works too.

    It's interesting you mention that, because I get the feeling (and I know I'm not the only one to think or suggest this) that Caveman2Cosmos, at some point near the end of its development cycle (which could be many years in the future), will transition to an independent project, one that can be custom made to suit the desires of C2C's team, rather than working around a decade-old game engine.

    Most of the suggestions are for my own modmod (whether that'll be for Civ4 C2C or its spinoff is another matter), but some are for C2C itself, including Civ4 C2C.

    I hadn't heard of that one before, thanks for directing me to check it out. Do you have a rough timeframe for when you envision the eras from Modern onwards will be?
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
  12. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    I just wanted to say in my own Rimworld games i have made a set of goals based on history. its over simplified but it differs greatly from the currently prehistoric era. My early eras went as follows ...

    Australopithecus -> Homo Hablisis -> Homo Erectus -> Homo Sapiens / Prehistoric -> Stone Age -> Copper Age -> Bronze Age -> Iron Age ... and so on

    The break down in over simplicifcation was ...

    Australopithecus
    Collecting only plants and making stockpiles

    Homo Hablisis
    Eating meat, butchering, first stone tools, knife and club, can chop trees

    Homo Erectus
    Can Make Fire, Hand Axes, Clothing, Spears, Log Walls

    Homo Sapiens
    Can make graves, make a cult, trade, makes animal hoods, burns corpses, can make sculptures, etc

    Note this is for the Rimworld and not C2C. But as you can see if we compare to the current tech tree in C2C a tech like Gathering would be Australopithecus, Scavenging would be Homo Hablisis and Controlled Fire would be Homo Erectus. All within the first couple columns. But then like Hard-Hammer Percussion, Soft-Hammer Percussion and other Stone tool techs would spread out from Homo Hablisis on forward.

    In short I think sticking with Homo Sapiens as the tarting point is probably best for the tech tree since not much happened before that. Not to warned a new era but just a hand full of small techs at the beginning.

    However spiting up say the Neolithic, Copper Age, Bronze Age and Iron age might be worth doing for the Late Prehistoric, Ancient and Early Classical Era.
     
  13. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Also from my other post, my proposed new eras ...

    - Paleolithic (Previously Prehistoric)
    - Mesolithic (Previously Prehistoric)
    - Neolithic (Previously Prehistoric / Ancient)
    - Chalcolithic / Copper Age (Previously Ancient)
    - Bronze Age (Previously Ancient)
    - Iron Age (Previously Classical)
    - Dark Age (Previously Classical / Medieval)
    - Middle Age (Medieval)
    - Renaissance
    - Imperial / Colonial (Previously Renaissance)
    - Industrial
    - Modern / WWI (Previously Industrial / Modern)
    - Postmodern / Atomic / WWII (Previously Modern)
    - Contemporary [Maybe] (Previously Modern)
    - Digital (Previously Modern / Transhuman)
    - Genetic / Biotech (Previously Transhuman)
    - Cyber (Previously Transhuman)
    - Nano (Previously Transhuman / Galactic)
    - Interstellar (Previously Galactic)
    - Intergalactic (Previously Galactic)
    - Future
     
  14. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    This is for Civ IV Beyond the Sword (BtS). Civ IV Complete has BtS and is very reasonable in price.

    We don't mod CiV nor Civ VI.

    JosEPh
     
  15. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    You all really want to make me sweat to get the Eras and research rates to run relatively smooth for Game Speeds with this many Eras. That list needs parred down a little imho. Only need 1 Galactic as no one ever gets there. Transhuman needs 2 to break up it's 190 Tech glut. But 4 is too much. Again almost no one gets to that point in the mod.

    Right now the late Ancient thru Early Ren Eras need the most attention, reorganization. Too much overlap and Classical contains too many Med techs and Med Era suffers because of it.

    JosEPh
     
  16. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    That's the start date I've had in my modmod for a year or so, my opinion on the matter should be obvious knowing that.
    Imo you are fighting a lost battle trying to make it as accurate as you want it.
    That's why I removed the calendar from the upper right corner in my modmod; to make semi accurate time progression more acceptable to the player as dates are then not as visible in the game.
     
  17. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    It's really more than just the dates, way more. It's balance for the tech research, unit build times, maintenance costs, and era progression to match the many Game speeds we use.

    If it was only keeping the "dates" close for each era's start and end then it would not have been much effort at all. Or even really bothered with. It's balance that I work on.

    JosEPh
     
  18. Toffer90

    Toffer90 C2C Modder

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    Ok, was just reminded about your earlier frustrations regarding date adjustments.
     
  19. pepper2000

    pepper2000 King

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    Obviously one can't know about the future, but I imagine the near-past and future eras arranged like this.

    Industrial Era: 1820-1920
    Atomic Era: 1920-1980
    Information Era: 1980-2050
    Nanotech Era: 2050-2200
    Transhuman Era: 2200-2400
    Galactic Era: 2400 - AD 10000
    Cosmic Era: AD 10000 - AD 100,000,000
    Transcendent Era: Outside of ordinary time
     
  20. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    A lot of good discussion here and I'm running out of time for it today. But wow... some stuff to discuss indeed.
     

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