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Pre-Math chopping

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by rfcfanatic, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. rfcfanatic

    rfcfanatic Mercantilist

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    I recently stumbled on an Immortal gameplay which made me quite confused about chopping forests before Mathematics. In this game the tiles of his capital are heavily forested but he doesn't chop them until he bulbs Mathematics.

    What do you people think? Should I completely avoid chopping forests before Mathematics?
     
  2. klonoklown

    klonoklown Civ Junky

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    If I can wait till Math I will, the 50% definitely makes a difference. Of course this will be very dependent on what I'm doing in the early game and the map itself. But a short answer to your questions: if I can wait to chop till I get Math I will, more hammers equals more power.

    Edit: Also IMO Chris, AbsoluteZero, is one of the best Civ players out there, so I would take his advice. (player in your link) I learned alot from him, definitely helped my game play.
     
  3. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    No, that's completely situational. It's nice if you can save a lot of them until you have Math, but sometimes you just have to do some early chopping.
     
  4. Apricottage

    Apricottage Warlord

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    I chop early to speed out Workers, Settlers, and critical early wonders. There's just no comparing which is more important in that scenario. Jam now is better than 50% more jam later. If it's not one of those things that I'm going for, then I leave the forests for later.
     
  5. landy

    landy Chieftain

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    Chopping a Settler :
    -founding a city 2 turns earlier, at least.
    -something makes the difference between whether you can block off an AI.

    Chopping a Library ~ a first GS 3 turns earlier.

    Chopping a Monument in a new city ~ make use of a resource in the 2nd ring 4 turns earlier.

    Make your choice between those benefits and the 10 hammers for delaying chopping.
     
  6. shulgi

    shulgi Warlord

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    The first expensive tech to research puts alphabet against mathematics. I'm not sure which is the better choice. Thoughts?

    @landy I'd rather whip a monument unless I have a surplus of workers.
     
  7. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    On lower difficulties it's good to self tech Alpha since the AI is slow to get it. On Immortal+ go for Aesthetics (not always, but often the best thing to do) and trade for Alpha and Math. The AI love to research Math really early and will eventually trade it, so unless I'm doing something special where i need early Math (maybe a Construction rush), i just trade for it.

    Generally agree on whipping monuments. That's the better option if you have a good food source, but if your food requires a border pop, it often makes sense to chop to get it online faster.
     
  8. ben-jammin

    ben-jammin Emperor

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    On immortal the only reasons I can see to bulb math with your first GS is because you're rushing wonders (lighthouse and pyramids especially) or fuelling an HA rush. In both cases it makes sense to pre-chop forests to 1 turn and then wait, because that would be the whole point of burning your GS on an otherwise low value bulb.
     
  9. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Deity

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    If you can get the hammers pre Math it is usually better to wait until Math. When I Oracle Construction, or Currency I will always pre chop all of my forests, and wait until I have bulbed Math to get it in 1 turn.
     
  10. Kadazzle

    Kadazzle Emperor

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    I always wait until Math to chop, unless I'm rushing someone or need to rush a Wonder. You can whip Libraries, Settlers, and Monuments, and it's generally much more efficient (no wasted worker turns). The unhappiness cap to whip a quick army would be too high to be practical (not to mention upkeep), and whipping Wonders isn't efficient, and is highly impractical early on as well. I chop for tile improvements if necessary as well pre-math.
     
  11. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    ^^^Who in the world is this guy?
     
  12. Kadazzle

    Kadazzle Emperor

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    I saw you post in another thread recently, it's nice to see you!
     
  13. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Good to see you alive and well! :lol: PR is still going strong
     
  14. rfcfanatic

    rfcfanatic Mercantilist

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    Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I fall behind in tech when I try this strategy. Because I don't chop, I cannot build cottages, since all good cottage sites are forested.
     
  15. NetGear

    NetGear King

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    Just chop a handful of river sites and save the rest including all the dry lands for later. You might be over cottaging if you have no wet and/or cleared spot for you to put cottages in early game.
     
  16. Strickl3r

    Strickl3r Prince

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    I save the chops if I'm about to self tech math. Otherwise i just chop if it makes sense, because the turns at the start count most and saving the hammers up to long can be a huge mistake.
    But its very situational of course.
     
  17. jarhead_leif

    jarhead_leif Civ2ToT Modder

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    You can one-less-turn chop when your worker has nothing to build. You need BULL to do this or you can always micromanage them.

    And when math is in, it's only one turn chop.
     
  18. Gr8scott

    Gr8scott Warlord

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    Question for the pre-choppers: do you normally burn the extra worker turn to drop down a road after pre chopping or not? I realize it is situational, but curious to see if reducing the costs of a road to one worker turn makes people much more likely to build them.
     
  19. Izuul

    Izuul Level 86

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    If all or most of your good tiles are forested, you really have to choice. That basically forces you to go for early BW to chop those forests so you aren't working a bunch of unimproved forest tiles.

    I prefer to so long as i have the free worker turns. There are also some other things that add some extra incentive to build the road.

    If you will eventually need a road going in that direction anyway, it definitely makes sense to go ahead and drop it while you are there. If it's a hill tile you plan to mine later, it often makes sense to drop the road. Otherwise you could potentially be burning one turn to come back to finish chopping, and then another turn later if you have to come back to mine the hill.
     

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