pre-MjMNES4: A Fresh Start

MjM

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Jun 12, 2004
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Introduction

Hi everyone.

A lot of you know me, a lot of you don't. To those that do, I'm glad to be back and it's good to see you. To those who don't, I am glad you are taking the time to read this and would hope you would like to give my NES a chance. I've been gone for a few years, and NESing has changed quite a bit since then, but it is still here and I am glad it has not died. A lot of things have changed, however.

I wanted to mod another NES a few weeks after returning, because I saw that the forum is practically absent of fresh starts. It seems they have fallen out of favor. This may be due to them being inaccurate, and not making much sense in a historical way. However, I had always thought of fresh starts as the ultimate creative venture, guiding your nation from it's early beginnings (around 2000 BCE) to the modern eras. That's something that has still not changed about NESing it seems, creativity and the desire to have fun. That said, it is still a strategic game, with stories and descriptions required. That was is what drew me to NESing, to have fun guiding your nation down it's strategic path of your choice, and engaging in various forms of diplomacy, war, national development, and of course, story writing.

I hope to bring back a fresh start NES we can all play, hence the title of my NES. I realize some of you don't like them, that is fine. I am trying to appeal to those who do, and I hope you will read through this and give it a chance. My other NESes were popular, but were modkilled by myself. I blame being young, inconsistent, and not having enough time. All these things, I hope, have been alleviated by age, taking a look at what I did wrong, and moving away from all my friends and having way too much free time :p.

Ruleset

One of my dilemmas was a ruleset, as there haven't really been any recent fresh starts to reference. So, when some of you look at my preliminary one, it may seem foreign, or extremely old. It is a slight alteration of an old das ruleset used many years ago. I am looking for feedback on what needs to change, what is old and archaic, and what people still want to see. Any and all criticism is welcome, I just ask you keep it civil. I realize I am a bit out of touch with this newer generation, so I am not doubting that the ruleset I will post will need some alteration.

I want one we can all enjoy and find balanced.

Please don't post after this post, as I am going to need a couple more.
 
Civilized Zones:

At the beginning of the NES, and then at the beginning and the end of each IT, I will post a Civilized Zones map. As you could see on a CZ map, there are red zones, green zones and white "zones". Red is Primary CZ. Green is Secondary CZ. White is no CZ at all. You could start in either of the first two; in red, however, you will start out more developed and built-up and usually less threatened by barbarians... and more surrounded by NPCs. However, nations in these regions will all have to face major existing problems from the start - like corruption, overpopulation and stagnation. In green, you will be less developed, maybe even more backwards, and menaced by barbarians. HOWEVER - people in "green" countries are more ferocious, more warlike. It is easier to lead them to conquer and plunder the richer, but more stagnant, more lazy red countries then vice versa. Also, you COULD start in a white area if you could give a very good explanation as to why do you think you could do that.

Interesting Times (IT)

This is, basically, the same as what happens in most NESes. You know, the usual thing with updates, orders, etc. The main difference from your average fresh start is that turns will take more like 5 years, or eventually even less. Oh, and it only goes on for a certain amount of turns - either until the loss of interest, either until the end of all major wars if the IT was on for over five turns.

Boring Times (BT)

In between of the ITs, there are the BTs. While ITs are the shorter, yet more interesting and exciting periods of history, the BTs are the (probably) longer periods of quiet growth and expansion, slow progress and (mostly) minor wars. Unlike with IT, you don't have any direct control over what happens to your country during that time. HOWEVER, a) its development will be based to some degree on what happened in the last IT and b) you could leave something of a development plan, parts of which might be followed, at least in the beginning. Oh, and some nasty things could happen to some of your countries during the BT - know that it will only happen if I think there are good reasons for it. But if after a BT you decide that you are completely disillusioned with your nation/the way it developped, you probably should try and find another nation for yourself.

So:

You should at first create a nation. To do that... no, don't fill out any templates, but simply write down a description of your nation (you know - the ruler, the government, the centralization, the capital, oh, and starting location) and its culture. And maybe some sort of a development plan for the first BT.

Expansion

Its pretty much a given that you will try to expand your empire. Yes, you still could send your legions to conquer the nearby unclaimed lands, and, if that works, you could try to make your people go there. But you will probably have to drag them there unless they want to go there all by themselves, and for that they need to have a really good reason to do it. Military occupation does not yet mean settlement. Meanwhile, if your city is overpopulated and there is an almost-free valley just across the border which you for whichever reason didn't take it, then the settlers will go there, kill or enslave the natives, and settle there all by themselves. Mere occupation without settlement will be "outside" of your borders, but settlement will bring lands within them. Lands without your settlements... you could control them, as protectorates or as mere occupied territories, but these will be much harder to control. Ofcourse, if you don't try to control your "automatic" expansion (or, rather, don't garrison what is gained and don't make a true effort at paying attention to it), you might slowly lose control over your new territories to those settlers...

Players, stories, orders, NPCs, barbarians, updates, map, countries.

Players

No limit, no constraints.

Stories

Not necessary, but very encouraged. There WILL be story bonuses, although what defines a story is up to my decision. Anything creative, such as conventional narratives, poems, graphs, graphics, etc. may count as a story. You are of course welcome to ask me what constitutes a story.

Orders

Orders are to be PMed, prefferably in list format but really its quite arbitrary. I would like to particularily emphasize that you should add all treaties and diplomatic agreements signed by you this turn to the orders, and also make sure to say where exactly your troops are located. Giving some explanations of your motives would also be helpful (especially if you have a "parliamentary" government form, for obvious reasons), and also, when you start a war, a casus belli should be stated to avoid damage to confidence. Maps are unecessary, but useful for military campaigns. In general, I don't require long orders - but I do encourage you to give me all the information necessary (as defined by the rules, by the mod and by yourself). If you don't... then don't complain.

I limit to 2 PMs. I would love to do just 1 PM, but well, sometimes 2 may be needed.

NPCs

As they're NPCs, I'll play them, to a certain extent. Won't give you any warnings here...

Barbarians

The usual - these barbarians occupy wide areas all over the world, and are light gray on the map. They have no stats, and are chiefly divided into a million of tiny tribes (however, I will mostly give you the names of the main ethnic groups, in most cases), though short-term tribal leagues are possible (also, some of those might evolve into civilized states...). It is possible to try and communicate with them, but that's rather unlikely to work, due to the aforementioned decentralization; so its probably better to order the diplomats to try and influence the barbarians to do one thing or another. Note that success isn't at all guaranteed... Also, there will be dark gray barbarians. These are more organized and civilized, they represent the more coherent tribal federations or even protostates, and its easier to communicate with them; often these will break up after a while, but it is also possible for them to suddenly become civilized without any warnings. Barbarians are sneaky like that.

Updates

For me, a reason why my past NESes have failed, is because of a not strict update policiy.I hope I can change that. I won't specify a specific day for it every week, but it WILL be well advertised, and WILL change from update to update, ex: it wont be on Wednesday every week. There may be more than one a week, etc.

Map

I will use fc's new World Map with terrain. I will put in cities (black circles), fortifications (line of black squares) and rebellion areas (white area within nations). A capital is a city with white borders; a trade center is a city with red borders (a capital trade center will have a combination of the two). Also, there will be (vague geographically, rounded numerically) army positions on the map for the larger armies, these will be represented by a simple number that represents the approximate amount of units (thousands) present (NOTE: the armies will be deployed in the first update). Thick borders are normal borders, thin borders are borders of autonomous regions or between "semi-integrated" nations (puppets or members of a particularily tight alliance).
If you have an army, but there is no number, assume they are spread roughly equally throughout a given area. Or, are not in service.

Countries

Pick a NPC, create your own (but first, give me some vital info so that I can give you stats; also, it will be preffered if you start countries in dark gray barbarian areas, as these areas have higher nation-forming potential) or start a rebellion (though I'd advise you to consult me about these first, to avoid people starting unviable, doomed uprisings as they tend to do). Also, if you want to take an existing country, please read your nation background, and try to avoid acting uncharacteristically. Note, once more, that certain nations will be considered "reserved" for the first day or so for the players that had them at the end of IT III, everything else is free game and so are those reserved nations that remain unclaimed. Another note: rebel movements don't have stats before they take over some territory.

NATIONAL TEMPLATE
Nation Name
Capital:
Ruler:
Government:
Culture:
Technology:
Army:
Army Description:
Navy:
Navy Description:
Economy (Base/Manufacturing/Trade):
Area:
Infrastructure:
Population:
Education:
Confidence:
Projects:
Nation Background:

Government

This your form of government, in some detail (like "Decentralized Feudal Parliamentary Theocratic Monarchy", though I hope to make it shorter).

In the brackets, "Efficiency" - or civil leadership - will be given as well. It is a level stat - i.e. it has a definite level system, and you can raise it by one level per eco. point (divided by size stat, ofcourse - sorry about not pointing that out in the initial version of these rules). Anyway, Efficiency signifies the efficiency of your state apparatus (as opposed to the personal qualities of your leader); a high Efficiency will allow you to control your resources and carry out your plans far more efficiently, a low Efficiency will mean that reforms and suchlike will be hard to carry out, corruption will grind away at the economy, funds appropriated for vital stuff will mysteriously disappear and the people will grow angry. In other words, this is a very important stat, which will mean the difference between success and failure.

If the country is parliamentary - or has some other body or person with some control over your actions - there will be a possibility of some or all of your orders being overriden, if they disagree with it. Which is why argumentation for your actions can be quite important; that said, it might be possible to bribe, blackmail or coerce the "controllers", or just kill them at worst. I do hope I don't need to explain why that is in most cases ill-advised... Also ill-advised are sudden, radical changes in governments and various hasty reforms, especially if they do not make sense at all, for instance due to being completely anachronistic. So perhaps its better to think twice, and maybe consult me about the likelihood of this sort of things. Because in real and NESing history, many empires were doomed by overeager reformers out of touch with the real state of affairs...

Also note that if your country is decentralized (it should be easy enough to figure out from the government form), it will be harder to introduce empire-wide reforms; also, there is greater chance of disintegration should things go badly. However, know that the regional political elites tend to defend their freedoms and priveleges fanatically...

Efficiency: None-Imaginary-Corrupt-Incompetent-Blundering-Tolerable-Improving-Competent-Efficient-Great-Brilliant

Culture

This is radically different from the system I had previously used for culture. It will not at all be in levels now; instead, under this stat I will list the major cultures, their "strenght" (as in, unity and fanaticism), the minorities and the foreign cultural influences. Do note that religions are part of this as well.

I don't think there's much of a point listing all the things that this will affect; it should be easy to guess it all by yourself, so I'll just say that yes, this is an important stat. Also, you can't influence it directly, i.e. by investing eco. points, but your actions - and other things - will ofcourse affect this stat's fluctuation.

Technology Level

Will use the age system. It is the same as in other NESes of other people, ofcourse the ages are not identical. They will advance at their own pace, though nations with higher education are likelier to advance to the next age.

Early Bronze Age - Early Bronze spears are used, chariots. Archers aren't profilic yet, slingers are still dominant. Most armies consist of recruited young men from the country side, with very few trained soilders. No towering walls to protect cities.

Middle-Late Bronze Age - Shipping is improved, ships can go father, but still are only rudimentary gallies. Swords are fashioned out of bronze and copper. Cities only spring up aurond centers of trade, or an important place.

Iron Age - Iron has been invented. Swords are now stronger, and so are spears, galley ramheads, armor, farming equipment. Mankind leaps forward. Less people have to farm because of improved techniques, though almost everyone still is. Armies appear to be more than unrecreuited rabble from the countryside. Trade flourishes.

Do note that all this info is chiefly to help you orient here; the actual state of technology is far more complicated than that, and as you'll do that anyway you're invited to ask me about the specifics.

Military

Pretty much the usual number-based military; we have thousands on the land, ships on the sea.

What will you have in it? Anything that makes sense within your tech. level; however, it is assumed that your army is more-or-less regular and standardized (however, inevitably the armies of different countries have different compositions, some are more cavalry-based, others have an emphasis on heavy infantry, and there are other nuisances, which you may or may not cover within your orders). Each “stat-growth” will increase any part of military by 10. But know that if you have too large an army, your economy will probably suffer, as will your confidence; ofcourse, both could be restored by succesful military campaigns...

For more specialized units, you have one UU per nation. These are managed like the other troops, but in the stats they are listed separately, and should have some single particular strenght (like city assaults); technically there can also be others, but one must have a clear priority. Due to its specialization, it will be hard to convert an UU into a regular unit; it will have low morale and quality, at first anyway; and you can't have more than one UU per nation, so you'll have to choose wisely (I know how scary it sounds for some of you...). Please note that it is usually presumed to be an elite unit.

Logistics are important; you'll probably have to invest at least one eco. point per major campaign, in order to get your troops properly supplied. Without this, they will have to live off the land, a system with too many disadvantages to mention especially if you have a large army in place.

Do note that particularily huge armies will eat into the economy even without active campaigning.

Technically your troops can move quite far - after all, each update is five years. Still, its valuable to take things like infrastructure, geography and starting positions (given as of the end of the last turn) into account... Its quite hard to predict how far you might get, so use your brains for that. Btw, also note that as its hard to control your commanders, your plans might not be carried out; maybe they'll even be radically changed, most often due to a radically altered situation. Consider this a warning.

Irregulars and militias will exist, but not in the stats; usually if they do exist they will be mentioned in the update. As they're virtually impossible to use as regular troops and as they never do have that kind of organization, its a bit pointless to put them up in the stats.

Levies, a.k.a. conscripts, will be in the stats. How many you may raise per turn depends on a variety of factors, so here, again, you'll probably have to ask me... Still, 30 thousands is a pretty good average. Do note that levying too many troops will be detrimental to the economy and the confidence, and that the levies are generally very incompetent, although they're good cannon fodder and can be used for garrisoning. Also note that in invaded provinces and besieged cities, a certain amount will be levied automatically.

Training will be replaced with Quality, which might be defined as a sum of training, experience, military leadership, equipment, organization and so forth. For all the purposes, though, its the same as training. It is raised by eco. points and lowered when you grow your army by too much (so basically its a step back from the NES2 VIb rules). There are separate army and navy Quality stats. A simplification, but its less confusing that way without making any real changes, for the most part.

Mob-Pathetic-Poor-Tolerable-Normal-Better-Good-Great-Mighty-Juggernaut

Economy

The economy system has been reworked once again. The level system is still gone; instead, a one-word appraisal of the economy’s general status (along the lines of Growing, Static or Recessive) is given, followed by brackets in which the income you receive from assorted sectors of economy is listed. Base is the basic income (i.e. from taxation, agriculture and internal commerce), Manufacturing is the income from manufacturing and industry, usually tied to cities and Trade is the income from external commerce. This is somewhat simplified, but not excessively so.

You cannot raise economy as such, but you could do things to the effect of raising it, though probably with other consequences as well. You could invest in the construction of more manufactories, or sign trade agreements, or raise taxes, or really just about anything, though particularily intricate schemes tend to be particularily prone to backfiring. There will often be some kind of bankers from whom you could take loans and suchlike as well. Other factors will influence the fluctuation of stats here as well, obviously.

There is a lot of things you could spend your money on. You could raise most level-based stats (but pay attention to Area or Population!), pay for logistics, invest in all kinds of things (including economy-raising measures; basically, your investments are various schemes to influence one or several stats, especially those that are not level-based), pay for projects and so forth. Finally, you can bank money, but it’s value will gradually degrade due to inflation (i.e. you’ll lose 1 banked eco. point per turn when you have more than 1 banked and unused), and corruption might also prove a problem.

You cannot grow a level-based stat beyond the last level. That’s just silly. If it’s any consolation, they will naturally degrade over time, allowing you to grow them back up again.

Area

Area is a Size stat overhauled. It now means specifically the territory size of the nation in question (NOT including the colonies and the occupied, non-integrated areas) and, apart from other things, is used for calculation of the amount of eco. points needed to raise Infrastructure and Bureaucracy. Now, level-based size stats had a lot of problems with them, so instead it is now number-based, allowing for greater precision. The number is the amount of eco. points you need to pay – simple enough, I believe.

Population

Why, ofcourse the people matter! Where did you think recruits and taxes come from? Fun aside, this is the Population stat, and it is much like the Area stat – it shows the population size of the nation itself (not including non-integrated and colonial territories), it is number-based and is used to calculate the amount of money you spend on Education and Living Standards per the same formula as before. Also, it naturally influences your economy, your military cap and your levying capabilities.

Infrastructure

Roads, bridges, boats - all things used for transportation of goods and men - are listed under infrastructure. The higher is your infrastructure, the easier it is to move your (or enemy) troops across your territory; also, high infrastructure will influence such things as Culture (binding the nation together!), Government Efficiency and Trade.

Infrastructure: None-Dirt Paths-Pathetic-Barely Tolerable-Tolerable-Improving-Good-Efficient-Very Efficient-Great-Excellent

Education

This is just how your people are... educated, I guess. Obvious enough. With a good education, you have better chances of receiving a “miracilous invention”. You could design better walls and siege engines, and ships for that matter, with higher education. It also affects just how advanced are your weapons, and thus the success of your army in a battlefield.

Once someone reaches Enlightenment education, he becomes much more likely to reach the next age as soon as it becomes possible at all. When he does, he loses two education levels.

Education: None-Dumb-Illiterate-Tolerable-Literate-Educated-Well Educated-Perfect-Academic-Enlightenment

Confidence

This is the degree to which the people trust or mistrust, love or hate you and your government. Its effects shouldn't be hard to explain, really - a more loyal people will take up arms in your defense, a less loyal people will take up arms to overthrow you. As not even Fortune is as fickle as public opinion, this will fluctuate wildly depending on your (perceived or real) successes or failures, and on the propaganda as well - both yours and that of your enemies.

It cannot be grown by eco. points directly.

Confidence: Lynching-Hateful-Resentful-Barely Tolerating-Tolerating-Respecting-Admiring-Loving-Nation Personified

Prestige

Much like Confidence, but in the greater world; this is the fame or infamy of a state (and its ruler), as based on its actions (and the actions of its diplomats). It will influence diplomacy, cultural influence and, ofcourse, trade. It might be considered your reputation.

Yes, I know that some of you hate this stat. You might as well ignore it; though many rulers in OTL valued it greatly, there were also many who ignored it. And it didn't always kill them. But it usually did have certain negative consequences, as did ignoring the Confidence stat...

It cannot be grown by eco. points directly neither.

In the early game, this stat will mean virutally nothing.

Prestige: Satanic-Rogue-Scorned-Unpopular-Tolerable-Acceptable-Popular-Admired-Exemplary

Projects

Local equivalent of wonders, but is more often some sort of a particularily large project or program as opposed to some huge building. Basically, you can do almost anything reasonable with this (again, consult me for specifics), but the amount of time it will take depends on just what do you plan to do. You have to pay a certain sum to get the project going (usually 1 eco. point); after that, eco. points can be used to speed the process up (1 eco. point can be used to speed the project up by 1 turn), but not more than 2 per turn.

You can make it secret, but in that case you'll have to remind me about the effects every so often.

Nation Background

To better fit in as the ruler of your country, you will have a brief history of each country. They will be provided by you intially, updated by me periodically.

Intelligence

It works like this: you can PM me questions that I will answer (not necessarily truthfully, and probably in an ambigous way), or add espionage/intelligence orders to your order sets, with the stuff that you want done (both sabotage and other such stuff, and normal information gathering; I will send secret reports after the update, with the results of your operations). Do note that your spies are neither omniscient nor omnipotent, - they aren't even omnipresent, most of the times. The latter can be partially fixed by gradual infiltration and construction of a spy network. Eco. points are not necessary here, but they might be very helpful.
 
YES! I will play this!!! Only because its MJM, and a fresh start, and old school.
 
Corruption IMO is an important stat that is missed?
 
Dibs.

Make a CZ in America somewhere. Support me in this notion, community! Down with our old world fetish!
 
CZ Map done. Added to map post. Also I'll post it here.

Spoiler CZ MAP :


Corruption IMO is an important stat that is missed?

How would that be implemented?


YES! I will play this!!! Only because its MJM, and a fresh start, and old school.

:D

Dibs.

Make a CZ in America somewhere. Support me in this notion, community! Down with our old world fetish!

Done.

[18:32] <+MjM> dont post in it yet

Ass.
 
Haven't done a Fresh start in a while, I'd like the Sardinia area. When do you plan on starting this as I've minimal Internet until next week?
 
Haven't done a Fresh start in a while, I'd like the Sardinia area. When do you plan on starting this as I've minimal Internet until next week?

Well, since everyone so far seems happy with the ruleset, maybe pretty soon here. Probably this weekend, I'm guessing. Either way, I can do that for you if you want to PM me a description and stuff as per indicated in the rules.
 
Well, since everyone so far seems happy with the ruleset, maybe pretty soon here. Probably this weekend, I'm guessing. Either way, I can do that for you if you want to PM me a description and stuff as per indicated in the rules.

Well I should be able to write up a nation just don't expect a story from me for at least a week.
 
Double Dibs on Mexico. All of it. *Eyes Iggy*
 
Egypt plz.
 
chinkfaglandplaz
 
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