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Pre-SprylliNES V: The Peloponnesian War

Discussion in 'Never Ending Stories' started by spryllino, May 26, 2011.

  1. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    England
    I have half a draft, unproofread, in-need-of-simplification ruleset that I'm not sure I want to share with you. :p
     
  2. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

    Joined:
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    Sorry for being slow; I thought my life had stopped being hectic for a few weeks and it immediately started being hectic again. Don't expect a ruleset or the main thread for a while, and meanwhile blame a combination of ImmacuNES, Sicily, and exams. :p
     
  3. Immaculate

    Immaculate unerring

    Joined:
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    7,529
    Saddies
     
  4. Immaculate

    Immaculate unerring

    Joined:
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    7,529
    Bump?
     
  5. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

    Joined:
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    I think you can blame your own NES. :p
     
  6. Immaculate

    Immaculate unerring

    Joined:
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    7,529
    still true :cry:
     
  7. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    Rules are here! No promises that this will start soon, but I'd still like comments, as I don't want to find myself starting the NES with a ruleset people don't like.

    Rules for SprylliNES V: The Peloponnesian War

    Each player represents a single political entity and its dependencies, represented in a single colour on the map. Certain players represent the most important politicians and generals in Athens instead.

    Each player has simple stats. For example;

    Mantinea/NPC
    Democracy
    Member of the Peloponnesian League with numerous other members of the League subject to it
    2600 Mantineans (Unquestioning)
    2000 Parrhasians (Resentful; controlled by the fort at Cypsela)

    or

    Alcibiades/Thlayli
    Reputation among the rich: low
    Reputation among the poor: low
    Personal wealth: high (this will deplete when spent lavishly and refill when not spent much)
    Military skill: high, inexperienced

    Basic Order Information:

    Each turn, players all send in orders. You may well not actually need to do something every turn, but in this case I still require orders to this effect. Your state will follow your orders, unless I receive contradictory orders, or conditional orders.

    In Athens, all the politicians will send orders for what they would like Athens to do that turn, and the Assembly will pick and choose parts of the different plans. Politicians are expected to take responsibility for their own proposals, and are subject to the consequences if they go wrong. Politicians are also normally required to send in military orders for their own measures, unless they have already agreed with another politician that this other politician will conduct the military operation for them.

    If a major battle happens, or some sticky contradiction in orders turns up, I fully intend to communicate with the players in question to resolve the conflict or clarify the issue, so I would appreciate it if players could be prepared to reply to their PMs as quickly as possible during the time between the deadline and the update.

    Taxation is very much ad hoc. If you need to do something that requires paying someone to do it, or paying for materials, your state will tax the people and trade subject to you. If you suddenly do a useless project, or your tax rate suddenly increases for no apparent reason because you have tried to do too much, you will suffer, and so you will need to make a judgement as to what is too much, or you will need to put in your orders an order saying that your project should only proceed up to a certain amount of expenditure.

    In Athens, it is very much the case that funds are limited by preset tax rates, etc. . The Assembly will take due account of the expense of each plan when considering which politician's plan to follow.

    War:

    The only definite numbers in your stats are those of troop numbers, which often also represent factions within the state, and their loyalty to you is listed after them. You can command these troops to go where you like and fight where you like.

    You should take loyalty levels carefully into account. If you call up soldiers from a disloyal ally, you can't expect them to fight too well or necessarily for them all to turn up to fight at all.

    Rebelling - Disloyal - Resentful - Apathetic - Sympathetic - Loyal - Grateful - Unquestioning

    Each force of soldiers, unless otherwise specified, is the number of hoplites (or other suitable heavy infantry) of that type; you may expect to have, for each of those men, another light infantryman (psilos).

    For all military campaigns, I require detail. I need to know any extra equipment you want to leave your city with. I want to know what you're going to say to your troops before the campaign or before the crucial battle. I require the precise route of march of any army, or your army will get lost, easily tired, and probably ambushed if I'm in a bad mood. I require orders for what to do in each location along the campaign. Do you intend to plunder the area? If not, where are you going to get food from? Are you going to offer battle to an enemy if they come nearby?

    I also need to know what you are going to do if you do battle. You may not offer battle to any enemy if you do not give me a plan of how to do it, and I will be quite firm here. Equally, if the enemy attacks you and you do not have an emergency battle plan to determine what you will do in such an emergency, you will fight the battle on your enemy's terms. I do not require detail, but I would like, at very least, to know what order, from left to right, the listed components of your army will line up for battle in. If you have no idea, any order is better than no order. I know this demand of mine may meet with some scepticism from some people, but I don't mind; in my opinion, this (unlike a detailed domestic policy of any kind) is a central part of leading any faction of any sort in Classical Greece, and, accordingly, I require that all players take it into account to some extent.

    I welcome sneaky ideas, treachery, espionage, etc. . The Classical Greeks seem to have liked it, so I do too.

    Anything major battles will be adjudicated on #nes or MSN if the participants and I wish to do that.

    Example Orders:

    Orders for Mantinea, 422:

    Build a new temple in Mantinea to Parrhasian Apollo. It should be fairly small and inexpensive, but modelled on the existing temple to Parrhasian Apollo at Bassae in Phigalean territory. This is intended to make the Parrhasians seem more part of the Mantinean alliance. The money for this should be taken from Parrhasia.

    Send the whole army to Orchomenos and ravage the territory. Avoid battle with the Orchomenians, but if they come out to meet us before we have ravaged a substantial amount of our territory, do battle with them as follows. Try to offer battle in an even plain with plenty of room for our larger army to outflank their smaller one, and place our best troops on the flanks (that is, the native Mantineans) with the Parrhasians and mercenaries in the centre, drawn up six men deep rather than four men deep to compensate for the increased likelihood of them running away. Place the mercenaries in the front and back ranks, both to take the brunt of the fighting and to prevent the others running away. Try to outflank the enemy on both sides with our native Mantinean troops.

    If we are forced to do battle in a pass or some other place where our numbers cannot be deployed adequately, the Parrhasians will be drawn up against the enemy, again with the mercenaries at the front and back, and the Mantineans will be kept in reserve and will reinforce the line as necessary during the battle.

    Religion:

    If you act on the assumption that the gods are real and can help you, they may well do so. :p

    Map:

    White boundaries represent the states of a koinon (federal state) in most cases; in these cases, I only expect to have one player per koinon, who will take a city, probably the most powerful one, but they should choose, within that koinon. A few white borders represent occupied territory (Leontini and Panactum). Black borders between states of the same colour represent wholly independent states that might reasonably be categorised together, purely to make it easier for me and you to identify which states are which (all states called "Locris" are light green, for example).

    Spoiler key :
    List of Playable Entities:

    Nicias
    Alcibiades
    Demosthenes
    Hyperbolus
    Lamachus


    Sparta
    Mantinea
    Elis
    Corinth
    Argos
    Phocis
    Locris
    Aetolia
    Macedonia
    Lyncus
    Orestis
    Elimea

    Parauaea
    Tymphaea
    Athamania
    Molossis
    Thesprotis
    Chaonia


    Hellespontine Phrygia
    Caria

    Syracuse
    Gela
    Camarina
    Acragas
    Selinus
    Egesta
    Himera

    Croton
    Thurii
    Taras
    Metapontium
    Posidonia
    Elea
    Cumae

    Lucanians
    Samnites
    Volscians
    Latins
    Veii

    List of Koina (Leagues):

    Achaean League
    Thessalian League
    Boeotian League
    Chalcidian League in Thrace
    Chalcidian League in Sicily


    Spoiler map :
     
  8. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Stats:

    Spoiler Athens :

    The Athenian People/Permanent NPC
    Democracy, governed by the Assembly and Council
    1000 TALENTS banked for dire emergencies
    800 TALENTS otherwise banked (A surplus is required here if the Athenian state intends a very expensive undertaking. Such a surplus will amass every turn if the Athenian state does not undertake anything sizeable.)

    22000 Citizen hoplites
    1000 Citizen hoplites garrisoning Potidaea and Mecyberna
    500 Plataean exile hoplites

    3000 Acarnanian infantry
    1000 Amphilochian infantry

    100 Athenian ships
    30 Chian ships
    10 Methymnan ships
    30 Corcyran ships

    Each turn, the players representing the politicians should send in orders stating what policies they wish to carry out in the Athenian Assembly. If they are elected to a military command, then they must also determine the strategy for that expedition. They may also use their own disposable income to influence events; if unused, future income will be slightly higher, and if used, future income may be lower. Politicians may also have political allies, who are NPC, but, as they are friends and allies of the players, the players can expect to be able to use their services to do things/propose legislation for them. Please note that I will not put up with the use of NPC political allies to evade the need to carry out actions for yourself: if Laches, as an ally of Nicias, undertakes a military campaign, Nicias must still devise the strategy. On the other hand, it may be that Laches turns out to be a better or worse general than Nicias would have been; to determine such things, refer to historical sources.

    Nicias/Shadowbound
    Reputation among the rich: very high
    Reputation among the poor: moderate
    Personal wealth: very high
    Military skill: moderate

    Alcibiades/Thlayli
    Reputation among the rich: low
    Reputation among the poor: low
    Personal wealth: high
    Military skill: high, inexperienced

    Hyperbolus/?
    Reputation among the rich: very low
    Reputation among the poor: high
    Personal wealth: low
    Military skill: low, inexperienced

    Demosthenes/Yui108
    Reputation among the rich: moderate
    Reputation among the poor: moderate
    Personal wealth: moderate
    Military skill: high

    Lamachus/Dachs
    Reputation among the rich: low
    Reputation among the poor: low
    Personal wealth: low
    Military skill: high


    Spoiler Playable Southern Greek States :

    Sparta/?
    Broad Oligarchy; governed by two Kings, five Ephors, the Gerousia and the Apella
    Leader of the Peloponnesian League
    1700 Spartiates
    2300 Perioeci
    2000 Tegeates (Loyal)
    1000 Neodamodeis
    1000 Lepreans (Sympathetic)
    600 Sciritae
    500 Aegytians (Resentful)

    800 Heraclean hoplites
    2000 Dorian and Trachinian peltasts

    700 Spartiates garrisoning Amphipolis

    [100 Spartiates imprisoned in Athens]
    [200 Perioeci imprisoned in Athens]

    Sparta, or Lacedaemon, is easily the most powerful state in the Peloponnese, best known for the fierce reputation (albeit marred by recent events) of its citizen soldiers, who all pass through the rigorous Agoge instated by the semi-mythical lawmaker Lycurgus. Dominating Laconia from the 8th century BC, Sparta at first joined the towns it conquered on to the Spartan state as perioecic communities, whose men served in the army but did not participate in Lacedaemonian politics, but soon began to turn the people it conquered into helot serfs who worked the land on behalf of Spartan aristocratic masters. Continued expansion resulted in the conquest of Messenia by 715. Sparta grew to rival Argos, but Argos defeated Sparta at Hysiae in 669, prompting the Messenians to rebel. The struggle with Argos intermittently continued throughout the next century until the Argive and Tegean defeat in the middle of the 6th century, resulting in Sparta controlling the eastern coastline of Laconia as well as securing Tegea as loyal allies. In the Persian Wars, Sparta took a leading role in defending Greece against King Xerxes, but Athens took over the leadership of the coalition after the Persians had withdrawn from Greece. Spartan hegemony soon came under threat from a coalition of Argos, Elis, and Mantinea, and as soon as the allies had been defeated at Dipaea (465) there was an earthquake and the helots rebelled again but were defeated and settled at Naupactus in Locris by the Athenians. However, with its allies peaceable and with a peace treaty in operation with Argos running for thirty years (451-421), Sparta was in a powerful position when the war with Athens began (following the incidents at Epidamnus, Corcyra, Potidaea and Plataea) in 431. Spartan arms invaded Attica frequently during the war, but Sparta's position was seriously compromised when 300 Spartiates were captured (a unique event) upon the Athenian capture of Pylos in 425. The Spartan position was made even worse when the Athenians captured Nisaea, and only recently did events take a turn for the better with the numerous successes of Brasidas in Thrace. Brasidas's death (along with Cleon's) paved the way for the peace between Athens and Sparta which has just been solemnised.




    Corinth/?
    Broad Oligarchy, governed by an annually elected Prytanis, Polemarch and Council
    Member of the Peloponnesian League
    Mother city to Leucas, Ambracia, and Syracuse
    4000 Citizen hoplites
    500 hoplites garrisoning Leucas and Ambracia
    1000 Leucadian hoplites (Loyal)
    1500 Ambraciot hoplites (Loyal, at peace by separate treaty with Athens and Acarnania)

    Corinth is one of the most important and strategically located Greek cities, and this, indeed, led to it being one of the most prosperous of the cities, with the largest navy outside Athens and numerous colonies. Its rivalry with Athens was a major cause of the last war, because Athens excluded Corinth from gaining control over Corcyra and Potidaea, both Corinthian colonies. Defeats in naval battles meant that most of the navy was sunk, and the Leucadians and Ambraciots were decisively defeated at Idomene by the Acarnanians. Corinth's position is weak, although it still retains experienced sailors and a better maritime position than any of its allies, as well as retaining claims to intervention in numerous cities that it founded, including Syracuse in Sicily.

    Elis/?
    Democracy, governed by the Assembly, the Council of 600, the Demiurgi, and the Thesmophylaces
    Member of the Peloponnesian League
    3500 Citizen hoplites
    800 Triphylian hoplites (Apathetic)
    400 Marganian, Amphidolian and Letrinian slingers (Apathetic)

    Elis is a relatively small state on the west coast of the Peloponnese, most significant because of its role in hosting the Olympic Games every four years. It has various subject states to the south, in the Triphylian and other dependent cities.

    Mantinea/?
    Democracy, governed by the Assembly, the Council, and the Demiurgi
    Member of the Peloponnesian League with numerous other members of the League subject to it
    2600 Mantinean hoplites
    2000 Parrhasian hoplites (Some loyal; most disloyal but intimidated by the fort of Cypsela)

    Mantinea has profited from the recent years of war to gain a hegemony in Arcadia (the central Peloponnese), and currently fears that Sparta may try to restore its own hegemony and restore the Arcadian cities to an equal position.


    Argos/?
    Democracy, governed by the Assembly, the Council, the Eighty, and the Artynae
    No alliance
    1000 Epilektoi
    3000 Argive hoplites
    500 Cleonaean hoplites (Loyal)
    500 Orneaean hoplites (Loyal)

    Long neutral, Argos was a rival to Sparta for the Peloponnese until about 470, when it concluded a peace treaty that expires in 420.


    Achaean League/NPC
    Very decentralised league of Democracies and Oligarchies
    No alliance

    Hoplites:
    Pellene 800
    Aegira 300
    Aegae 300
    Bura 200
    Cerynia 200
    Helice 400
    Aegium 500
    Patrae 500
    Dyme 400
    Pharae 300
    Tritaea 300

    The Achaean League is more an ethnic and cultural than a political or military organisation. Until peace, some cities, notably Pellene, were in alliance with Sparta as well as belonging to the League.


    League of Acte/NPC
    Decentralised Alliance of Oligarchies
    Allied to Sparta
    1200 Epidaurian hoplites
    800 Troezenian hoplites
    800 Hermionian hoplites
    500 Halieian hoplites

    These small states in the peninsula of Acte have long been allied with Sparta, mainly to defend themselves against Argos.


    Thebes/?
    Hegemon of the Boeotian League (each member of which supplies a quota of 1000 Infantry and 100 Cavalry and 1 Boeotarch); Oligarchy within each city; allies in Megara and Locris whose armies are largely willing to follow Boeotian foreign policy because it normally coincides with their interests
    Member of the Peloponnesian League
    4000 Theban hoplites (4 Boeotarchs)
    500 Theban hoplites to cover the loss of Thespians at Delium
    1500 Thespian hoplites (2 Boeotarchs) (Disloyal but ruled by a puppet oligarchy)
    2000 Orchomenian hoplites (2 Boeotarchs) (Apathetic)
    1000 Tanagran hoplites (1 Boeotarch) (Sympathetic)
    1000 Copaean and Acraephnian hoplites (1 Boeotarch) (Sympathetic)
    1000 Haliartan and Coronean hoplites (1 Boeotarch) (Sympathetic)

    400 Theban cavalry
    200 Thespian cavalry
    200 Orchomenian cavalry
    100 Tanagran cavalry
    100 Copaean and Acraephnian cavalry
    100 Haliartan and Coronean cavalry

    Allies:

    2000 Megarian hoplites
    ? Opuntian Locrian peltasts
    ? Epicnemidian Locrian peltasts

    ? Opuntian Locrian cavalry
    ? Epicnemidian cavalry


    Spoiler Permanently NPC other Southern Greek States :

    Orchomenus 1200
    Psophis 300
    Cynaetha 200
    Lusi 200
    Clitor 500
    The Three Cities 200
    Pheneus 500
    Stymphalus 200

    Sicyon 1500
    Phlius 1000


    Melos 700
    Thera 700



    Spoiler Northern Greek States :

    Thessalian League/?
    League of Sixteen Thessalian Cities, grouped into four Tetrarchies of four cities each, with seven Subject states.

    Infantry (Peltasts and Hoplites)/Cavalry

    Pelasgiotis:
    Larissa 2600/550
    Pherae 2000/400
    Crannon 400/350
    Scotussa 350/350

    Phthiotis:
    Pharsalus 2400/500
    Euhydrium 350/350
    Phyllus 350/350
    Pirasia 350/350

    Thessaliotis:
    Cierium 350/350
    Thetonium 350/350
    Limnaeum 350/350
    Methylium 350/350

    Hestiaeotis:
    Tricca 500/350
    Pharcadum 350/350
    Pellinna 350/350
    Gomphi 500/350

    Subjects and Allies:
    Perrhaebi 2000/0
    Magnetes 1500/0
    Achaei 2000/0
    Aenianes 2000/0
    Dolopes 3500/700
    Paralians 500/0
    Hiereans 500/0

    League of the Chalcidians in Thrace/?
    League of Democracies
    2000 Olynthian hoplites
    800 Bottiaean hoplites
    1000 other Chalcidian hoplites
    500 Amphipolitan hoplites
    300 Argilian hoplites
    1000 Amphipolitan peltasts

    Macedonia/?
    King Perdiccas
    5000 poor-quality infantry
    1500 Greek hoplites living in Macedonia
    3000 "Companion" Cavalry

    Macedonia is a poorly organised and fairly weak state, with its capital at Aegae. It has a loose claim to some sort of rule over Lyncus, Elimea and Orestis.

    Lyncus
    King Arrhabaeus
    4000 poor-quality infantry
    1500 Cavalry

    Lyncus is the largest of the kingdoms that would later become "Upper Macedonia"; the present ruling dynasty controls Lyncus itself as well as the northern district of Pelagonia.

    Elimea
    King Derdas
    2000 poor-quality infantry
    800 Cavalry

    Orestis
    King Seleucus
    2500 poor-quality infantry
    1000 Cavalry

    Tymphe
    King [Peucestas]
    1500 poor-quality infantry
    500 Cavalry

    Athamania
    King [Methecon]
    3000 poor-quality infantry
    1500 Cavalry

    Molossis
    King Tharyps
    4000 poor-quality infantry
    1500 Cavalry

    Parauaea
    King Oroedus
    1500 poor-quality infantry
    500 Cavalry

    Chaonia
    Ruled by annually elected prostates
    4000 poor-quality infantry
    1500 Cavalry

    Thesprotis
    Ruled by anually elected prostates
    4000 poor-quality infantry
    1500 Cavalry



    Spoiler Sicily :

    Sicily is ruled by a variety of different Greek states, while parts are ruled by the Carthaginians and by native peoples (the Elymi, the Sicani and the Siculi). The Greek states are divided into two main groups, those founded by the Chalcidians (from Chalcis in Euboea) and those Dorian cities founded by the Corinthians, Rhodians or Cretans. In recent years, Syracuse (a Corinthian colony) has been particularly successful in war, signally worsting native rebels and then Acragas in the 440s. Sicily has spent much of the last decade in a war between the Leontinian alliace supported by Athens and the Syracusan alliance, but finally a compromise was made. Since then, though, the balance in Sicily has been altered again by Syracusan intervention in a civil war in Leontini, resulting in Syracuse annexing the city-state at the behest of the oligarchic party in Leontini, which has now moved to Syracuse and has been granted Syracusan citizenship. Messina has also been disturbed by party strife, with the oligarchic party handing the city over to the Epizephyrian Locrians, but now the Locrians have been expelled and an independent democracy rules Messina.

    Carthage/NPC

    Egesta/?
    Democracy
    Native (Elymic) city
    3000 Elymic hoplites
    800 Elymic cavalry

    Syracuse/?
    Democracy
    Colony of Corinth
    Dorian city
    9000 Syracusan hoplites
    1000 Syracusan cavalry

    35 Syracusan warships
    5 warships from Syracusan colonies

    Chalcidian League in Sicily/?
    Loose alliance of Democracies
    Chalcidian cities
    3000 Messinian hoplites
    3000 Naxian hoplites
    2000 Catanian hoplites
    700 Leontinian hoplites besieged at Bricinniae

    500 Messinian cavalry
    100 Naxian cavalry
    50 Catanian cavalry

    30 Messinian warships
    5 Naxian warships
    5 Catanian warships

    Gela/?
    Dorian City
    6000 Geloan hoplites
    700 Geloan cavalry

    8 Geloan warships

    Camarina/?
    Colony of Syracuse
    Dorian City
    5000 Camarinan hoplites
    600 Camarinan cavalry

    5 Camarinan warships

    Acragas/?
    Colony of Gela
    Dorian City
    7000 Acragantine hoplites
    1000 Acragantine cavalry

    10 Acragantine warships

    Selinus/?
    4500 Selinuntian hoplites
    700 Selinuntian cavalry

    10 Selinuntian warships

    Himera/?
    4500 Himeran hoplites
    500 Himeran cavalry

    7 Himeran warships


    Spoiler States of Southern Italy :

    Rhegium/?
    6000 Rhegian hoplites
    600 Rhegian cavalry

    15 Rhegian warships

    Epizephyrian Locris/?
    4000 Locrian hoplites
    3500 hoplites from colonies

    500 Locrian cavalry
    500 cavalry from colonies

    15 Locrian warships

    Croton/?
    5000 Crotoniate hoplites
    600 Crotoniate cavalry

    10 Crotoniate warships

    Thurii/?
    Colony founded by Athenians and others
    5500 Thurian hoplites
    800 Thurian cavalry

    15 Thurian warships

    Metapontium/?
    3000 Metapontine hoplites
    500 Metapontine cavalry

    5 Metapontine warships

    Taras/?
    Oligarchy of the Spartan type
    Colony founded by Spartan exiles (Parthenidae)
    8000 Tarentine hoplites
    1500 Heraclean hoplites

    1000 Tarentine cavalry
    300 Heraclean cavalry

    20 Tarentine warships
     
  9. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

    Joined:
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    Location:
    England
    Stats are posted! I have every intention of starting this within the next few days. All nations are still open to being applied for until the main thread is posted.

    Everyone is welcome to tell me what they think of the stats.
     
  10. Kraznaya

    Kraznaya Princeps

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2005
    Messages:
    6,822
    Location:
    Land of the Successor
    yay you're back :D

    i'm still interested in the argives, although i could possibly be persuaded to switch sides if the peloponnesian league doesn't have enough players
     
  11. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    32,588
    Location:
    Moscow
    Pending more important comments: what about income?
     
  12. mythmonster2

    mythmonster2 BEC NOIR! RUN!

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2005
    Messages:
    2,873
    Location:
    Houston TX, Yeeeehaw!
    I've tried to figure out Taras' location and neighbors through the powers of Google and Wikipedia and I just want to see if I have it right. From north to south on the west coast of the Gulf of Taranto: Taras, Metapontium, ?Taras again?, Thurii, Croton. Is this right?
     
  13. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    Location:
    Moscow
    Modern Taranto is built in ancient Taras' [Roman Tarentum] necropolis.
     
  14. mythmonster2

    mythmonster2 BEC NOIR! RUN!

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Houston TX, Yeeeehaw!
    Aye, I have found that, so I'm fairly sure of my placement of Taras itself. It's mainly Metapontium and Thurii I fear I have mixed up, as well as what could be another chunk of Taras south of what I think is Metapontium.
     
  15. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    Location:
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  16. Gen.Mannerheim

    Gen.Mannerheim Grand Moff

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2011
    Messages:
    1,131
    Location:
    Whale Tail Island
    Question. You have Posidonia in the key as playable, but I don't see any specs for them in your southern Italy group (unless I'm completely blind).

    (assuming no Posidonia)
    1) Syrákousai
    2) Rhegion
    3) Epizephyrian Locris

    Yes I know I have a thing for Megálē Hellás!:p
     
  17. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

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    Location:
    England
    Dachs: For most states, there will be ad hoc raising of funds as necessary and then immediate spending of them, and consequently no income stat, as I see no reason to believe that most states had any capacity for regular taxation or treasuries worth accounting for in the stats, and even if they did it would encourage the wrong sort of player behaviour; overambitious projects will meet with resistance or failure. For Athens, I don't intend to give it an income stat either. The 1000 banked talents will be more of a political than an economic entity. The thing is, I reckon, there's little point in having an income stat for Athens because the tax and tribute quantities will necessarily be increased by the boule if the demos needs to spend more than it has, and the whole thing is sort of messed up by the presence of liturgies and trierarchs, who, provided the player's proposals to the demos aren't catastrophically ambitious, will make up the shortfall, and if they don't, the demos will likely make a proposal to cut state pay temporarily or something like that, to make up the difference. Ultimately, in my opinion, income levels would be so misleading as to be counter-productive, even in Athens, and, besides, the players have relatively little control over the treasury. I've put a short explanation into the Athenian stats too now.

    Gen. Mannerheim: I have now decided that the west coast of Magna Graecia will not be playable or have stats; the main thread will not have Posidonia and the other cities there on the playable list.

    mythmonster: Yes, Taras is split, because the city of Heraclea (the southern bit) is part of the Tarentine state.
     
  18. das

    das Regeneration In Process

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2001
    Messages:
    19,309
    Location:
    Ekaterinburg (Sverdlovsk), Russia
    No stats for the Persian satrapies yet?

    1. Sparta;
    2. Caria;
    3. Gela.
     
  19. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,162
    Location:
    England
    For the moment at least, they are perma-NPCs without stats, which is contrary to my original plan, but seeing as my stats revolve entirely around available manpower (also contrary to my original plan) I suspect they wouldn't make an enormous amount of sense for the two satrapies.
     
  20. spryllino

    spryllino Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,162
    Location:
    England
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=441426

    The thread is up! Reservations have been transferred and people have been allocated their first or second choices at my discretion. :) Kentharu, I've given you Mantinea, which was what you chose before, and you seemed to be fine with. If anyone wants to change their choice, they may of course do so.
     

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