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Preferred Ottoman leader?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by MantaRevan, Jun 28, 2013.

  1. Quibblesome

    Quibblesome Warlord

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    Why don't you guys just choose a map/save and have a "game off"?

    One is Sully the other is Mehmed, fastest victory wins. It would save all this typing bollocks.
     
  2. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    Why, there's nothing to show here ;)
    His flight already took off when Izuul showed his wrongs, much better than i could cos i'm too lazy to look for other posts where they say different stuff, depending on how they feel on that day.
     
  3. Tall German Joe

    Tall German Joe Prince

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    unrelated to this discussion, another forum I post on (the one I did that Ramses game for) asked me to do an LP of a diety Engineering Rush, and I've chosen to do it with Suleiman. so, I've decided to go with Suleiman, and I'll post it here too, I guess in its own thread, so we will all see the power of Phi/Imp!! (no offense to Org/Exp of course, a fine set of traits for an Engineering rush in their own right, just not quite as powerful for this strategy IMO)
     
  4. Strickl3r

    Strickl3r Prince

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    Go beat Shakabrade's 1240(wasn't engineering bulb though i think):

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=498476&page=4
     
  5. Tall German Joe

    Tall German Joe Prince

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    that seems pretty tough to beat, though I'll do my best!!! :lol:
     
  6. Hanlin20

    Hanlin20 Chieftain

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    Mehmed because his traits have better synergy.
     
  7. ben-jammin

    ben-jammin Emperor

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    It wouldn't really prove anything. Though I have a hard time seeing how expansive/organized would do better than philosophical/anything on Deity. Exactly how many cities are you going to have in the first half of the game? How many courthouses are you really going to build? These traits would be almost useless on Deity unless you're isolated on a large landmass.

    Expansive/organized SEEMS like a good combo superficially. But organized actually sucks, and you have even less need for courthouses with lower civic maintenance. And expansive is giving you a health bonus (when is health ever really a problem?) for a Civ that has a (in my opinion) pretty strong aqueduct UB.
     
  8. drewisfat

    drewisfat Prince

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    "Mehmed because his traits have better synergy."

    So synergy isn't about one trait's abilities making the other better, it's about having good economic and good growth. That's fine I can work with that.

    PHI = great economic trait
    IMP = good growth trait

    ORG = bad economic trait
    EXP = great growth trait

    Suleiman wins. ORG is bad. I will qualify this with ORG is bad in deity, pangea, standard size. On settler difficulty, or on giant waterpalooza maps where you get 20 cities size 20 each, ORG is the best!

    But if you play a normal game with 6-9 cities closely packed ORG is going to have a very small economic benefit in the early and mid game. This is going to be much smaller than PHI, IND, FIN. The hammers you save on buildings you should rarely build isn't going to save it. It's the most overrated trait, heavily promoted by HoFers looking for high scores, but terrible in the lens of what helps you consistently win difficult games.

    Edit* Cheer cheer to Ben-jammin :goodjob: who summed it up more succinctly than I :)
     
  9. qazq2

    qazq2 Warmonger

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    I prefer Mehmed, the cheap granaries/workers are great and organized fits my play style. Suleiman is a good leader too, but I prefer Mehmed.
     
  10. qazq2

    qazq2 Warmonger

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    Of course, I tend to have a large empire and am only a monarch player so I must say that Benjamin probably more experienced and correct.
     
  11. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    I think it's easy, ORG can be solid but will do no wonders for you like Phi or Ind can.
    If you have space to expand, or can do an early rush, the map is most likely not too hard and special goodies are not that much needed.

    "Synergy" is a bit of an anti-word like "economy".
    Phi/Ind would be one of the few that would really qualify, so i guess that's why it's not here :)
    Exp and Org? These are not a duo worth remembering..you can read something into most combos, but it's more wishful thinking.

    Phi works well together with some other traits and so does Ind, but that's cos they are special on their own already, and others buff them up a little more.
    Cre with Phi? Great, quick Libs..
    Exp with Phi? Great, bigger cities can run more..
    Spi? Awesome, i can switch into Caste when i want..
    So most good traits always work well together, simply cos they are..good? :D
     
  12. Tall German Joe

    Tall German Joe Prince

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    you know where expansive/organized would be really nice? the current NC hannibal game. mehmed of carthage would be completely INSANE on that map !!!!
     
  13. ben-jammin

    ben-jammin Emperor

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    I take it there are more islands you can reach with border pops? I haven't played that far into it.
     
  14. Tall German Joe

    Tall German Joe Prince

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    Spoiler :

    no, but there ARE more islands you can reach with great scientist pops... :crazyeye:

    even for your starting archipeligo though, think about how much faster all those little 1 tile islands would come online if you can 1 pop whip both your granary AND your lighthouse! you'd probably speed up your cothons by like 20 turns!
     
  15. yturk39

    yturk39 Warlord

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    ...or is this such a minor thing to most players that it isn't even worth mentioning?

    I think Great Generals are my favorite units in the game. They're certainly a lot of fun.
     
  16. ben-jammin

    ben-jammin Emperor

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    Under normal circumstances you're only going to have a very small percentage of your combat happening inside your own culture. Unless it's a nonstandard setting like Always War or Aggressive AI or your game has really gotten out of hand.

    I suppose it would give you reason to wait for AI stacks to enter your territory if the situation calls for it. But you would normally want to open a war by taking at least one city on the first turn and then waiting for the stack to show up near there, usually in enemy territory.
     
  17. Tall German Joe

    Tall German Joe Prince

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    I think the Great General bonus for Imperialistic works whether you are within your own culture or not. it's only the Great Wall that requires you to be within your own culture.
     
  18. Fippy

    Fippy Mycro Junkie Queen

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    Yep, no need to be in your own borders with Imp..
    it's mostly an underrated trait, EXP gets respect for it's cheap granaries and faster worker starts, while it's rarely mentioned that faster Settlers and GGs are good too.
    I guess it's because people seem to manage them not optimal, when i read "settle in my future heroic epic city" you know they hugely delay their benefits.
     
  19. RagingHordes

    RagingHordes Wooden Shoeur

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    When you think about the traits, it's important to remember that the early game up to the point where you can get a snowballing advantage is what matters the most.

    Imp is half good, half bad (the GG may end a war faster, but if you declared and are doing well in a war you are already leveraging a snowballing advantage). This suggests it's not as useful as the other traits.

    Edit: Imp to get faster GGs can be really good if you somehow get into an early defensive war that you can turn around.
    AW makes Imp work, as ScorpionK shows in OCC games.
     
  20. Robert FIN

    Robert FIN Monty n' Roll

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    I find IMP-trait very useless but PHI-trait very useful so for me Suleiman is mediorce leader. I find EXP-trait mediorce and I find ORG-trait mediorce so Mehmed II is mediorce leader for me. Pretty hard to compare. Can't say. Playing with Suleiman= Play with one strong trait, playing with Mehmed II= playing with two traits. <- Noob's Opinion.
     

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