-Prethread- NCNESIOT: Blackened Skies

[Crezth]

I'm thoroughly delighted to see that you think so! I must repeat that I don't want players to get too hung up on economic details, but I want the information to be there if they want it. Hence we are 100% tolerant of players who simplify down to like "spend 50% of the budget on education and 50% on killing rebels." Your role is as policy-maker and chief diplomat, not comptroller!

 

[Decamper]

Would anyone be interested in potentially making an update banner for the new decade?

Awful slapdash job, but maybe it will give other people ideas.

 

[Ahigin]

Thanks, Crezth. That's super-neat, actually.

GDP then is the final value of all goods produced and services rendered in the nation in a year. It's calculated from your total EP. GDP (PP) is the same as GDP, but normalized to the global marketplace. Both are good but different illustrations of how the nation "stacks up" to others in the world.

So, when GDP == GDP (PP) (like in the case of the United States), it means their economy is very open and integrated into pretty much every market. And when GDP > GDP (PP) (like in my case), it signifies relative isolation of the economy (typical for Socintern countries). Is that correct?

Manufacturing Sector is a quick 'n' dirty stat indicating the relative strength of manufacturing. It's, uh, not normalized in any way whatsoever, so I can't vouch for scale or what the number even means except that higher means that a larger portion of the entire national economy consists of manufacturing. I'm trying to make it a proper percentage but I was tired when I hacked it in and just gave up, so, maybe later.

So, economies based on resource export, banking, tourism, and other services would have smaller Manufacturing Sector, while industrialized economies will have a high Manufacturing Sector values, correct?

Also, is it correct to assume that if a country has EP >> IC (for example, the Zhao) then that signifies inflation? Basically, the nation has more currency than it can spend. (No, I'm not encouraging you to create another stat. Just wonder if that's a correct interpretation. )

 

[Crezth]

Thanks, Crezth. That's super-neat, actually.So, when GDP == GDP (PP) (like in the case of the United States), it means their economy is very open and integrated into pretty much every market. And when GDP > GDP (PP) (like in my case), it signifies relative isolation of the economy (typical for Socintern countries). Is that correct?So, economies based on resource export, banking, tourism, and other services would have smaller Manufacturing Sector, while industrialized economies will have a high Manufacturing Sector values, correct?

Also, is it correct to assume that if a country has EP >> IC (for example, the Zhao) then that signifies inflation? Basically, the nation has more currency than it can spend. (No, I'm not encouraging you to create another stat. Just wonder if that's a correct interpretation. )

Boy, some good questions. I'd say your assessment of GDP ~ GDP(PP) is on the right track, but the true nature of good PP in this game comes from low Base Cost, which is mostly an inverse-scaling measure of productivity. So overall it's a very ass-backwards way to get to GDP(PP).

That is the idea of the Manufacturing Stat, although it's sooort of a false dichotomy, because IC realistically involves more than just manufacturing and I have made some efforts to model that as well. Still, it's helpful to have an at-a-glance gauge for how many nuts and bolts you can assemble on a moment's notice, especially as the age of total war is upon us.

If EP >> IC, it signifies a very, very large population. IC essentially increases the productivity of the population, and we use gross output to measure the total "capacity" for industrial production in that population. The more, the more. But people don't need factories to make rugs. They've been doing that for like... ever.

 

[Masada]

Can you write some spending examples, because I don't really understand how it all goes together. I also can't get my head around the US which economic numbers seem strange. Can we also get a growth figure back?

 

[JohannaK]

I second the motion requesting examples.

 

[Double A]

Spoiler :

 

[Nuka-sama]

Man this IOT/NES seems really cool and I'd love to join... What are some of the nations available? If the list provided to talon is the only nations included, then I'd try as Persia, but I'd also be interested in seeing a bigger list.

Also though I'm not sure if I'm ready for a game of such complexity, although this new explanatory post of the economic system is exceedingly helpful.

Glad you think it's great! The list I mentioned was just full of nations not at/not near war. In addition to those nations, Portugal and the Maya Kingdom are also available. Ethiopia is not near war and I forgot to mention them as well.

If you're also interested, we do have a few rebel movements. Vietnam, Poland, Prussia, Hungary, and Romania are all in open revolt, and a player there could get straight into the war fighting

 

[Ahigin]

If you're also interested, we do have a few rebel movements. Vietnam, Poland, Prussia, Hungary, and Romania are all in open revolt, and a player there could get straight into the war fighting

And by Prussia he means the Prussian Legion, a rebel movement in current Russian Empire-controlled West Prussia. The German Federalist Alliance is also often informally called Prussia, and of all Prussias the GFA is the most Prussian.

Meanwhile, here's a banner for 1940s I propose:

Spoiler :

 

[Double A]

is it late enough for conga lines

 

[Ahigin]

is it late enough for conga lines

It's never too late for conga lines!

Spoiler :

 

[Masada]

Conga is as American as apple pie in this timeline.

 

[Crezth]

Can you write some spending examples, because I don't really understand how it all goes together. I also can't get my head around the US which economic numbers seem strange. Can we also get a growth figure back?

Be glad to. US' economic numbers should seem very strange while the country is in civil war.

Let's take an example. First I will illustrate a case and go over explicitly what the interactions are, and then I will give an example of orders.Assume two nations:

Japan
EP: 100
IC: 5 Pub/20 Prv
BC: 5 EP

USA
EP: 200
IC: 30 Pub/100 Prv
BC: 1 EP

Japan and the USA are in a trade group together, meaning they can buy the other's IC freely.

Japan wants to build 1 Modern Armor Division. It costs 10 IC. So, Japan will need to get 10 IC. The cost of Japan's IC is equal to its Base Cost, which is 5 EP.

Japan NEEDS: 10 IC
Japan buys 5 Public IC from itself at 5 EP/IC. (-25 EP, +5 IC) {5 IC needed}
Japan buys 5 Private IC from itself. (-25 EP, +5 IC) {0 IC needed}
Total Cost: 50 EP, 1 Reserve Division, 5 Public IC, 5 Private IC
Yield: 1 Modern Armor Division, 10-IC usage boost to Japan

If Japan wanted a cheaper Modern Armor Division, it could import America's Private IC. Let's look at that:

Japan NEEDS: 10 IC
Japan buys 10 Private IC from the USA at 1 EP/IC. (-10 EP, +10 IC) {0 IC needeD}
Total Cost: 10 EP, 1 Reserve Division, 10 of the USA's Private IC
Yield: 1 Modern Armor Division, 10-IC usage boost to USA

Now since America's IC has been ordered by Japan, there is demand for America's IC, meaning some of that IC may go somewhere else. As it happens, America wants to build 13 Modern Armor Divisions.

America NEEDS: 130 IC
USA buys 30 Public IC from itself at 1 EP/IC. (-30 EP, +30 IC) {100 IC needed}
USA buys 100 Private IC from itself. (-100 EP, +100 IC) {0 IC needed}
Total Cost: 130 EP, 30 of Public IC, 100 of Private IC
Yield: 13 Modern Armor Divisions, 130-IC usage boost to USA

Now there is more demand than America's IC pool can supply. So the conflict is resolved (by us; don't worry about handling this) based on the relative economic power of those contesting. So we take the total Supply minus the Demand and find the Conflicted Amount. Share of the conflicted amount (which is negative) is based on the inverse ratio of your EP to the total EP of all contesting the resource. Since Japan has 100 EP to America's 200, its share of the conflicted amount is equal to 2 times that of America's. Japan gets -6 IC, and the USA gets -3 IC. This leaves 1 IC that is "split" between them, and will go to the highest EP in the group. Hence Japan still needs 6 IC at this point, and America needs 2.

Automatically, when this situation occurs, we will get you your cheapest IC based on the policy you executed. Either you can choose to automatically import the cheapest IC, or you can choose to fall-back on your own IC. Note that if you are in a case where your own IC is completely used-up, you will automatically start importing until you no longer need to supply those goods.

So, some acceptable order sets, for the above scenario, might be:

Japan Orders

A. Buy 1 Modern Armor Division using IC from the Americans. If that doesn't work, use our native industry.

B. Buy 1 Modern Armor Division using USA's IC: 10 EP.

C. Buy 1 Modern Armor Division using the cheapest IC on the market.

D. Buy 1 Modern Armor Division using domestic IC.

E. Buy 1 Modern Armor Division using domestic IC for 50 EP.

F. Buy 1 Modern Armor Divisions using 8 domestic Public IC and 1 Private IC from the Americans and 1 Public IC that Poland is letting me use.

G. Buy 1 Modern Armor Division (by default, will use domestic).

 

[gay_Aleks]

Can we use other nation's private EP/ICs to build projects?

 

[Ahigin]

Do policies and administrative actions (such as financing a counter-intelligence agency or reforming some laws) require any IC? Or are they purely EP-dependent?

For instance, if I want to provide life-time pension to all war veterans, do I need to "buy IC" for that, or am I using pure EP?

 

[Masada]

Same concern re recurrent spending.

I'm concerned about the fact that various parties GNP/GDP is as high as mine... I just don't get how that works.

 

[Crezth]

Can we use other nation's private EP/ICs to build projects?

Yes. You can use them to build anything. However, the source of the IC will have an effect on the outcome of the project.

Do policies and administrative actions (such as financing a counter-intelligence agency or reforming some laws) require any IC? Or are they purely EP-dependent?

For instance, if I want to provide life-time pension to all war veterans, do I need to "buy IC" for that, or am I using pure EP?

This is what we are addressing in the new social policies feature. We will include templates for custom projects. They will require a mixture; some will take IC, others EP.

Same concern re recurrent spending.

I'm concerned about the fact that various parties GNP/GDP is as high as mine... I just don't get how that works.

Cute. You're in a civil war. Not all of your territories are under your control.

 

[Masada]

Stop being so stand-offish. I'm well aware that the numbers don't matter in a game sense. They're just there to give the players some additional background info. But how can the players trust those numbers if some of them seem off? It's not a big ask and probably involves a one sentence response, with example, along the lines of: industry is a component of GDP, so states with high industry have higher GDP, however I take into account base cost in this way and here's a worked out example.

 

[Ahigin]

I'm not Crezth and can't claim to be correct, but I see that even in the state of civil war America is the 2nd economy on the world market by GDP (PP). There are economies bigger than the American (isolated as they are), but only the British goods are more competitive than the American ones. (All of that is true if my understanding of GDP (PP) in-game is correct.)

 

[Double A]

hello I am china I have money buy my rice