Preturn information

[General_W]

of course! I didn't think about switching the prebuild! oops!

Better station 3 workers on the aluminum hill!

I also support Paul's suggestion of bleeding our coastal cities as much as possible... since it's likely we'll be disbanding many of them here soon.
It's all about holding on just long enough to get out of this world, now!

 

[Paul#42]

Let's play the guerrilla game.
Just like in Afganistan these days and according to an ancient Iron Maiden song. Run to the hills!
(Anybody remember that video featuring Indians attacking on bycicles?)

 

[donsig]

FREE sends furs, spices, silks and 1000g with accept and we will accept. Don't see the iron.
We have a new worker from The Squeeze.
Yeah, we're importing iron. The nuke strike did disconnect our iron. The strike also pushed back our engine completion time in The Gulag to five turns. But no sabotage yet. On a more upbeat note The Silo can complete the engine in two turns! It has 582 shields in the bin (58 short of our goal) and is making 29 per turn after waste. No margin for error there, but we could take the wheat tile from The Gulag and clear/improve two other tiles this turn. We can also set up a WLTCD. We can still see SABER's military in the F3 screen so our spy is there. Time to try to expose their spy this turn. I think we ought to switch The Silo over to the engine this turn. We have only one source of rubber which SABER might target and FREE may not be able to replace. Right now we can only see a couple SABER destroyers off our SE coast. We'll have to run our EWS before playing the turn. I probably won't have time to do that until Tuesday.

Happy Fourth of July!

 

[General_W]

Holy smokes this is coming down to the wire!!

Three Cheers for our FREE allies!

The Silo is 58 short of the Engine... how far short is the Gulag?
We should, as I've advocated before, focus on improving the tiles of both these cities (with The Silo being the priority now).

Also, I'm sure this is obvious, but our EWS should focus on finding the Saber fleet where FREE's intel indicated they might be, and then secondarily, anywhere in potential range of our capital. I might have a psychological break if we lost our capital.


Happy 4th!

 

[Niklas]

Time to expose SABER spies again then?

 

[dl123654]

Time to expose SABER spies again then?

Sounds good.

Remember that the only mission that will autofail after failing is the planting of the spy, so if you fail to expose their spy and are able to replant, expose again.

 

[peter grimes]

Exposing spy, improving as G_W mentioned, and pushing for a WLTKD all sounds good to me.

Perhaps we can use our nuke subs to help spot the missing Saber fleet(s)?

 

[donsig]

Anyone ever notice the pollution/nuke fallout orange is the same color as SABER orange?

Oh, this is turn 301 preturn. I keep forgetting we play first now.

Ok, we have 9 jets and 3 privateers for our EWS. (No nuke subs left.) There are a couple areas of the fog of war that we can see without even doing anything:


We have to give priority to the part of our coast that still has cities. If we let SABER capture one of our coastal cities and unload even one transport we are done for. If SABER is coming for our capitol and decides to land on our southeast coast I'd don't see how we can prevent the landing. SABER has 15 transports left.

EWS moves:

Spoiler :

• Jet in Chamsuris' Cove recons 4E-3SE of Chamsuri's Cove.
• Privateer northeast of Chamsuri's Cove moves 2E-3NW.
• Jet in eastern airfield recons 4N-2NE of Chamsuri's Cove.
• Jet in The Aerie recons 5NE of The Whale Pond.
• Jet in Northern Airfield recons 4N of The Whale Pond.
• Privateer west of The Whale Pond moves N-W-3SW.
• Jet in western airfield recons 8NW of The Red Tape. Finds a FREE stack: cruiser and 2 destroyers.
• Privateer west of The Phoenix moves 4N-1NW.
• Jet in western airfield recons 3SW-2W of The Phoenix.
• Jet in southern airfield recons 5SW-1W of The Nursery.
• Jet in The Treasury recons 5SW of The New Yard.
• Jet in The Treasury recons 5S of The New Yard.

So we only found a few FREE ships. The only coastal city that could be attacked is The Nursery. Enemy transports cannot enter that city though.

I am too tired to do any more, especially in this heat, so I'll just post this. I should be able to pay it out tomorrow night. In the mean time, should we garrison The Nursery at all? Another question is should we draft or build/rush workers/settlers in our coastal cities this turn? Once SABER is set to land they will probably target our eyes (our three privateers and our jets). If we lose our sight we might as well just abandon all our coastal cities. So, before we reach that point do we want to milk them for conscript mech infantry or workers and settlers? All our bombers are in The Treasury. Should I relocate some of them? I think I should station three workers on our iron just in case. Any objections? We have 2227g thanks to the 1000g donation from FREE. I will try to replant our spy if our expose spy mission fails. I also want to switch The Silo over to the engine. Will have to put The Igloo on Battlefield Medicine (no loss - it has exactly 500 shields in the bin!), then put The Gulag on the palace (which will burn 13 shields!) the I can put The Silo on the engine, put The Gulag on Universal Suffrage and then The Igloo back on the palace. Whew. That's it for now.

 

[Paul#42]

No garrisson in The Nursery.
Draft and disband-rush (conscript Mech-Inf + 12g = settler) settlers in coastal cities.
conscript Mech Infs are almost useless imo.

Secure Iron, Uranium and crucial roads with 1.5- and 3-worker-combos.

 

[General_W]

Regarding switching the Silo to the Engine this turn... I'm a little concerned about the plan. If we fail to expose Saber's spy (or if they get lucky and replant right away) they're going to notice that we moved the Engine away from the Gulag, and will certainly find it in the Silo and nuke it.

My preference would be to secure our aluminum with enough workers to clear/re-mine/re-road that hill in case we lose it to a nuke, and then not switch till the very last moment. Saber still gets one crack at it, but at least we'll have the max number of shields in the bin when that happens.

Unless we don't have enough workers for that, or if there's a possibility we could lose our aluminum so thoroughly we couldn't re-connect in one turn? Alternately, if we get a battle log from Saber with a nuke strike near our aluminum, perhaps we could ask FREE to supply us with theirs for a turn?

Re: Mech Inf vs. Settlers
I think Paul has a good point/idea with using drafted mechs to rush build some settlers - but I would only do this for 2 or 3 cities max. We only need to bulk up population in The Silo if it gets nuked - and while drafted Mechs are unlikely to win any combats against Saber's army, they will slow them down / soak up attacks. If (when?) Saber invades, it's going to be a race between their army to our capital and our engine to outerspace. If we can put enough drafted mechs (read: fodder) between them and our capital, we'll buy ourselves a critical turn or two.

I don't know why we need to use any workers to secure iron? Ditto uranium - the SS Engine only seems to require aluminum (and mechs just need oil and rubber). At this point I think we just need to focus on the few things we desperately we need - we don't have the resources for anything that's not desperate.

 

[donsig]

Ok, it is 90 degrees up in my apartment and I do not have the stamina to play our turn tonight. Can't do 2+ hours in front if this computer. Might be able to play Friday or Saturday.

So I've been thinking. Not sure how much settlers will help. If The Silo gets nuked we will have to clean and re-improve tiles before any added pop will be helpful. I prefer some conscript mech infantry. If they're really useless we can station them on the east coast. The would not prevent a SABER landing but we'd get a battle log if SABER has to force they way onto the beaches. I'm attaching a screenie of the tiles they could land on and still be able to reach The Chamber the next turn with armor. (The tiles outlined in orange.)

If we are to attempt any sort of defense of The Chamber we need to be able to get our units into the area. To do that we need roads. We can expect SABER to nuke and or bomb our road system prior to their invasion. To counter this I propose we use a string of our nuke/bomb proof workers and slaves to form a chain leading from The Chamber to The Silo. (See blue lines in the screenis.)This worker/slave chain could then rebuild the vital road link into both The Silo and The Chamber in one turn allowing our forces to enter the area of our capital city to put up whatever defense we are capable of.

So, if we get lucky and SABER does not sabotage The Silo on either of the next two turns we'll have more than enough shields to complete the engine in two turns. (Oh, I have no objections to switching over to the engine next turn as the General suggested.) If SABER nukes The Silo we'd lose six improved tiles that give us 16 raw spt (half our production). We have 582 shields and would have 16spt (raw) left if we have enough pop left to work those tiles. We might as well steal the wheat from The Gulag. That would leave us 24 raw spt after a direct nuke strike, though we'd need 8 pop, meaning our pre-nuke pop would have to be 16. (It is now 13). My guess is we'd have 21 good spt (if we manage the 8 post strike pop). We have 582 shields in the bin. That puts us 16 shields short of finishing the engine if they nuke us once. Should I go ahead and join three workers to The Silo to ensure a pop of 8 if we get nuked? We'd have just enough food but I don't know if we could then still get a WLTCD. We would not have a food surplus. Maybe we should hold off joining until we get some of those settlers next turn. Perhaps just join one worker to give us a pop of 7? (Note: SABER shows 7 tactical nukes and no ICBMs. Tactical nukes have a range of 6 tiles so they could only reach The Silo only from a couple coastal tiles near The Shallows. Should we spend 300 or so gold to rush a sub spotting unit up in that area? Could be cheaper if we use Paul's draft then disband idea.) Of course SABER could be finishing or rushing an ICBM or two.

Ok, it's too hot. I'm turning this blasted machine off.

 

[Paul#42]

I agree to make the switch depending on the diplomatic success. Rather hide our move one more turn.

I also agree it should be just 3-5 settlers powered by disbanding conscripts. Each of them saves us 27x4=108g for cash-rushing.
we'll need that money for our essential diplomatic actions.

I disagree to put lone conscripts on coastal tiles just to get a battle log.
We'd see any landing anyway and our EWS shows any naval threat, right?

workers are not killed by nukes, right?

 

[donsig]

We'd see any landing anyway and our EWS shows any naval threat, right?

Yes, we'd see a landing once it's our turn. Our EWS is not complete. Not only is there a tile or two threatening The Nursery that we can't unfog, the EWS does not extend to our east/southeast coast. For all we know SABER could land on their next turn. This is the area SABER would land in if they wanted to capture The Chamber and destroy our spaceship.

workers are not killed by nukes, right?

Well, you know I thought they were immune since they don't die when bombed. I tested it in an old game and workers and slaves are not nuke proof. There is nothing to prevent SABER from using their seven tactical nukes (or stealth bombers) to blanket the area around The Chamber and destroying our roads. Without roads I don't see how we can defend The Chamber. Any units we station in the area would just also get nuked. Any thoughts on how to proceed defensively?

 

[Niklas]

Maybe we should put all our eggs in one basket and let The Gulag finish that palace?

 

[donsig]

An interesting idea. I never thought about relocating the capital. Anyone know if that affects building the spaceship? It should make it more difficult for SABER to destroy our spaceship.

My only idea was to fight fire with fire and build a nuke or two. If SABER lands all in one stack we could whack it with a nuke. If we take Niklas's suggestion of putting all our eggs in one basket we could switch The Igloo over to an ICBM which would also finish next turn. We might be able to use Paul's idea of drafting and disbanding mech infantry to help rush a tactical nuke as well.

Does the Council prefer to keep the moral high ground and stay nuke free or should we build one or two to help save our capital city/spaceship? Should be rebuild our palace in The Gulag?

 

[Paul#42]

While I'm against using a nuke, I don't see any harm in building one to threaten any stacked landing force...
To have one nuke in our arsenal would give SABER some more headache about their D-Day...

After all, it's just peaceful policy of deterrence, right?

Relocating our capital would be a real smart move...
Pro!
Anybody test the effect on a spaceship before?

 

[donsig]

I'll see if I can find an old game to test the relocating capital effect on the spaceship.

If we do shift the capital (making it not so close to the coast) then our need for a nuke is lessened and we could leave The Igloo's 500 shields alone for now. We could always turn it in to an ICBM later. The Red Tape has 170 shields stored up. It would cost 520g to rush a tactical nuke (or less if we disband some conscript mech infantry). Tactical nukes have a range of 6. Is it worth spending some gold on this?

 

[dl123654]

Don't move the capital it destroys the spaceship. We figured this out already 9 months ago.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=8580673#post8580673

 

[General_W]

I agree with Paul that we shouldn't deploy mechs on the coast - getting a battle log isn't worth losing a potential extra defender for The Chamber. I wouldn't mind deploying some of those mechs to guard our worker/road lines. It wouldn't help with nukes, but it would give them some cover from Saber's traditional bombers.

It's too bad we can't move the capital - - but I suppose that makes sense.

I seriously don't understand why on earth anyone would even consider NOT using a nuke on Saber?!? I mean, Saber already thinks we broke the treaty (and from their perspective, I suppose we already did) and from our perspective, the treaty is 300% broken... or 400%.... how many times have they nuked us so far? What kind of fools would we have to be to cling to one side of a repeatedly broken treaty?
I mean - if we're going for the "most heroic self sacrifice in the face of brutal ongoing punishment" award... then yeah, we shouldn't nuke them. But I don't see how that award is worth losing the game on purpose. I can't think of a single honor code in the entire world that mandates us to keep one side of a broken agreement.

Seriously people!! If they land on our shores, let's nuke 'em to the stone age!!!

 

[General_W]

Update: Paul's test 9 months ago only tested moving the capital via disbanding. Perhaps the mechanic is different if we actually build the capital elsewhere? This is certainly worth a test if someone can manage it. imo.