Price transparency

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Ziggy Stardust, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    24,849
    Location:
    High above the ice
    So, smoking got more expensive for me lately. Normally my favourite brand of tobacco and a package of papers set me back 8 Euros, a few weeks ago it went up to 9. Now I assume this is because of increased taxes. And that got me thinking. How much does it cost to manufacture my tobacco. Which part of those 9 Euros is just the costs from raw resource to the vendor. How much is the margin the company put on it. And how much is tax? Then I thought about other products. How much is the cost, how much is the margin?

    Is the value of a product whatever a fool is willing to pay for them? Is that a fair price? Do the laws of supply and demand used to create the largest profit for a company determine a fair price? And if this is the case, is it so strange of me to ask the producer what kind of margin he gets from the product I'm buying? After all, if a company can probe it's consumers and tweak their prices for an optimum profit margin, and we agree that's a fair deal since companies are supposed to create that optimum to guarantee continuity, should I not be able to make my decision on which product to buy, be just as informed to make the best decision?

    Of course I realise this creates margin buying where people shop for products which price is closest to the cost price so that they have to pay as little as possible extra, but I'm not asking for practical issues, I'm wondering: what's a fair deal? I can imagine the answer to the practical point of view could be: (No, it's not fair, but the fair way/Yes of course it's fair and your system) would spell disaster for companies.

    Just: Do I have the theoretical right to be informed of the way the price of the product I am buying came to be? Just as I have the practical right to be informed about the ingredients of a tin of food, or the BHP a car produces. The question is puzzling to me, so, do I?
     
  2. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    26,698
    I'm puzzled. Why would it matter to you?
     
  3. rugbyLEAGUEfan

    rugbyLEAGUEfan Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2010
    Messages:
    5,290
    Location:
    sydney australia
    No you don't have the right to know the vendors cost. I'd say your rights extend to whatever is being sold doing/consisting of etc what the seller says it does.

    However, you have the right to negotiate every time you spend you money. If you wish to include transparency in the vendors costs as part of the negotiation process then feel free (though I think it's pointless).

    But no, it's not an obligation on the sellers part.
     
  4. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2005
    Messages:
    24,849
    Location:
    High above the ice
    And what about the tax part? Do I have the right to know what % of the product is tax?
     
  5. TomYo689

    TomYo689 Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,382
    Location:
    Connecticut
    In the modern retail of our industrialized world the market value of the commodity in question is never over 30% of your retail price. For something with taxes on it like tobacco you're probably getting 10 cents worth for your 9 euro pack
     
  6. TomYo689

    TomYo689 Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,382
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Not sure if the guy at the counter will know but the people in distribution can probably give you a good idea of the exact numbers for price. It's not hidden information it's just not broadcasted to the consumer so they get mad omg ur marking it up by doubl
     
  7. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2001
    Messages:
    20,544
    Of course you do. And it probably isn't that hard to find out.

    As for the margin, no you don't. And it would be highly impractical to make that demand, as each batch of cigarette boxes has a different profit margin.
     
  8. Terxpahseyton

    Terxpahseyton One. And many.

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2006
    Messages:
    10,463
    Gender:
    Male
    A fair price is in my opinion a price which enables me to purchase goods and services which require the same investment of time and energy as I had to invest to obtain the money to pay a price.
    So no I don't think the price mechanism determines a fair price. Nature isn't fair, it is a jungle, and this barbaric ideal is what the price mechanism is based on.
     
  9. AlpsStranger

    AlpsStranger Jump jump on the tiger!

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    5,820
    Man, every country is just a massive dick to smokers.

    It's bad for you and it's fine to ban it in hospitals, schools and workplaces. I get that. I'm not sure it's really right to slap a 950% tax or whatever the hell on it, though.

    Smoking is something you should have the right to do. It's not fundamentally different from choking down a dozen Big Macs and then taking a nap. OFC half the posters here are about to tell me we need Big Mac bans too, so I give up :p
     
  10. TomYo689

    TomYo689 Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,382
    Location:
    Connecticut
    I wonder what kind of smoking laws they planned to put in the theoretical libertarian gulag camps
     
  11. RobAnybody

    RobAnybody Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,133
    Frankly I'm surprised cigarette companies (& even places you buy cigarettes) don't post giant signs saying what portion of the price is from taxes. Sort of "hey, we wish we could charge you less, but it's clearly not *our* fault the price is so high" kind of thing.
     
  12. TomYo689

    TomYo689 Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,382
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Then it'd show how much they are making off of you
     
  13. AlpsStranger

    AlpsStranger Jump jump on the tiger!

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    5,820
    Smoking is one of those things where society gets into that collective gang beatdown mode and then everyone feels glowingly self-righteous afterwords. Pats on the back and warm feelings of superiority are exchanged at the after party.
     
  14. RobAnybody

    RobAnybody Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,133
    No it wouldn't - it'd show how much the government is making off of you. Just because the grocery store prints the sales tax at the bottom of your receipt doesn't mean you know their profit margin on milk.
     
  15. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    22,719
    Does it make you froth at the mouth to know that people who ride motorcycles and sports cars pay higher insurance than those who drive minivans because of their added danger to themselves and the people around them?

    You have the right to make your own decisions. You do not have the right to avoid the consequences of your own decisions. Through your actions, you are increasing the risk of injury to you and your immediate surroundings. As such, you bear a heavier financial burden to the state to reflect this.

    Does this bother you? Seems as if it does. Why?
     
  16. AlpsStranger

    AlpsStranger Jump jump on the tiger!

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    5,820
    Higher insurance from additional risk is hardly the same as a sin tax, and comparing the two to make me look bad is bunk.

    One is a logical consequence of the nature of insurance and the risks associated with certain vehicles.

    The other is a self-righteous crusade designed to make the moral guardian caste purr with self-satisfaction.


    Link to video.
     
  17. Arwon

    Arwon

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Messages:
    19,201
    Location:
    Canberra
    Actually if you've a mind to, you can probably find the difference between basic prices and purchaser's prices for tobacco somewhere in the detailed Stats Netherlands economic data.
     
  18. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    22,719
    I tried to make you look bad?

    There is no crusade being done. Please. You insult true oppression. If you don't see the health drawbacks of smoking for both the individual and the individuals in their immediate area, there is no conversation to be had. There is a damn good reason why doctors tell you to stop smoking and why mothers and fathers stop smoking when they have a child. Hint: It's not coincidental timing.
     
  19. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2005
    Messages:
    25,984
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
    I will concede your right to smoke only if you do it in a totally enclosed environment (preferably a sealed goldfish bowl helmet firmly affixed to your head) so you are the only individual to suffer the effects of the carcinogens and other noxious crap you're willingly taking into your body.

    No sympathy whatsoever about the price. If you find it that burdensome, why don't you quit?
     
  20. AlpsStranger

    AlpsStranger Jump jump on the tiger!

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2009
    Messages:
    5,820
    1) There is no such line as True Oppression. There's petty oppression and grand oppression, but unjustified intrusion on people's lives is the same. I admit that not all oppression is equally severe, but I don't think you have to solve world hunger before you can complain about smaller issues.

    2) You shouldn't smoke around kids and I could understand rules about smoking around kids. Every smoker I knew growing up removed themselves form the house. If their child had asthma or something they usually quit altogether. Perfectly normal and fine.

    3) I am not opposed to restrictions on where and when you can smoke. That is perfectly fair to everyone.

    What I am opposed to is a "sin tax" that sucks up tons of money ( often from low income people ) in what is largely an effort to "fix" them in the eyes of their self-righteous "superiors."

    For the record: I do not smoke and I have never smoked. It wouldn't alter my day-to-day life if they shot every smoker in the face.
     

Share This Page