Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Lemon Merchant, Jul 1, 2019.
Ah yes the poor cis straights, historically under physical threat by the all powerful LGBT community
If your point is that the LGBT community is not much of a physical threat to cis straights, then what is the point of violence against them? To alienate people and piss them off?
I'm a straight guy. Have to admit I'm a bit lost in how violence against me would advance protection of LGBT rights.
When did i advocate for violence in a non-defensive manner against cis straights, that isn't for the purpose of either gaining rights or protecting what rights they have? And mate, with the best will in the world, just being openly LGBT is enough to alienate and piss people off, even existing is too much for some people.
I'm sure the social and political admixture of radical and moderate activism toward a better society would not be missed by you in Europe if some of your forebear a century or two ago lacked such drive, which show such disdain for and seem to see as "disruptive," if you still lived under feudal monarchies with mandatory state religions. Your ambivalence to the whole socio-political process being discussed implies you wouldn't be bothered at all with a pointless life of back-breaking, unpaid serfdom for the wealth of a powerful who just won the birth lottery over you and had no other integral merit.
So is there a non-defensive violence that you are advocating for?
I'm struggling to find example of rights which you can go out and grab by force.
America literally got their rights from britain by using violence lol
Everyone has a right to (and should) defend themselves. Which is why I don't think that's what put Lemon off (in the OP).
Some people, sure. And it sucks, I get it. Just does not mean "straight" should be a codeword for "enemy" or something.
It's true, being LGBT in Russia is very dangerous and for some may be a death sentence. Interestingly, homosexuality was decriminalized in Russia right after the Bolshevik Revolution, earlier than in many Western countries, but was reinstated as a crime by homicidal maniac Joseph Stalin. And I have heard from many people that after our "president" passed the law against "gay propaganda", life has become much worse for the LGBT community in Russia because "gay propaganda" is a very vague term, any pretty much anything can be twisted to be perceived as "gay propaganda". In fact, even straight people can get the axe if they are perceived as gay. Many high school students are bullied in school for being perceived as gay, even when they aren't.
We also have concentration camps for gay men in Chechnya, but... Chechnya is pretty much a Medieval state at this point. There was a recent report which showed families denouncing, disowning, and cursing their own children who dared criticize Ramzan Kadyrov. Compared to Chechnya, the rest of the "Russian Federation" is a safe space.
But I do hope one day Russia becomes a civilized country.
Unless you are explicitly pro-gay, you are functionally not helping. Anti-LGBT elements count of peoples apathy to be able to implement policies that punish queer people.
Turning apathic but in principle sympathetic people into enemies is going to help even less.
As said in another post, I am very grateful and in awe for all these people of the past that had the guts to struggle f.e. in the Stonewall Riots. But this is not the past. I believe in being visible as a gay man, a lot is already achieved in changing opinions and preconceptions. It is about showing the diversity of life conceptions as ok, going from Tolerance to Acceptance.
Quoted for truth even if I'm sure some people will now point out that some medieval countries weren't as bad and it's reinforcing stereotypes to compare Chechnya to the Middle Ages ;-).
I stopped going to our local Pride Parade for similar reasons, but mainly because I knew the organisers and their agenda too well. They had this attitude that "we should make a big party, we should invite guests from all over Europe, but we shouldn't make a fuss while doing it".
Latvia is in Eastern Europe. We can't marry, we don't hold hands in public due to fear, we don't even have civil unions. And the organisers want to ignore that and simply throw a party? That is so, SO FAKE!
So my idea in this case regarding Pride week in your country - check what the organisers are planning. Are they really agitating people to make posters that say "Cis/hetero people = scum" ?
Apart from that, don't feel fear if these so called radicals are only on internet and they are trying to stir up drama or a riot. There will be and should be police to arrest or stop anyone who incites hate, no matter towards whom. Just being in Pride parade doesn't give anyone rights to hate publicly.
What Medieval countries weren't that bad? Are you quoting sources from studies of Medieval politics, society, culture, economics, religion, lifestyle, and living standards, or glamourized, romanticized fairy-tales, when you make that claim? In a number of notable ways, Chechnya's better, because at least some modern technology and medicine is there, and the rest of the world isn't made up backward, feudal monarchies with old-style state religions, and thus there is actual outrage against what goes on there and a growing international pressure from some vocal sources to stop it - which would NOT happen in the Middle Ages.
I mean they're literally putting LGBT in concentration camps in Chechnya but ok
I was obviously saying that with a winking face behind my sentence... I'll stop doing that in this case.
Yes, but Medieval nations often burnt them at the stake, stoned them, and other much more graphic fates, and there was never international outrage, or concern at all, regarding it. That's more the difference I mean.
Of course I know historical examples, such as slave revolts, etc.
I was more wondering about present-day LGBT community, let's say in USA or Canada to be more specific.
Whether there are examples of non-defensive violence which can be justified in their case.
The case with defensive violence is easier to consider, it's justified when it's appropriate and proportional. But it's justified regardless if it's done by LGBT member or against one.
I think that it is positive for the non-hetero community to be fully accepted. I also think this renders "parades" useless, and perhaps also counter-productive.
Advocating for violence can only erode one's status, indeed.
We all should know that literally no one has to defend anyone else - people have enough problems of their own already, so apathy/neutrality at times is actually a decent stance. It does seem to be the generic stance towards any problem of another person/group.
I don't see how you can be wrong to feel that way. You're an individual person and can do what you like. Surely the whole point of freedom is to choose what you want to do. You're not obliged to go to it (or anything else), and if you don't want to then don't. Unless you've made some specific promise to someone(s) that you'll be there, then you don't need to feel bad about it or like you're letting anyone down. Live your own life.
Plus you'd probably end up kicking some straight guy in the head again and making things worse.
While there is some truth to this, please remember that it was the moderates acceptance that finally tipped the scale so they just need to continue to help.
Separate names with a comma.