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Pride Week in My Little Town, and Why I Won't be Going

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Lemon Merchant, Jul 1, 2019.

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  1. Hrothbern

    Hrothbern Warlord

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    I see that the US stances in this thread discussion dominate.
    I do not mind that with so many USians on this forum.

    But for outside people landing by accident on this thread:
    I think that this whole process happened very differently in countries, and I think it would be very bad to just copy shift insights from this thread and apply those straight into your own country !!!



    As I see it happened in NL

    Targets and tools.
    A political movement or a societal-cultural movement.
    Or just want to be able to live your life in peace how you want it with the people you like.


    The Pride Amsterdam that you see perhaps in newsmedia was not started (in the 90ies BTW) as political manifestation, but more as a kind of tourism fitting the LBGT culture of Amsterdam. Keeping Amsterdam on the map there.
    Our other big Amsterdam manifestation is celebrating the King's birthday..... during the day a national street party for children.... during the night before a national feasting party for the youth



    When those Stonewall Riots took place and the next year that pride parade in the US, there was a discussion here at the COC (our big LGBT association) whether to do something similar.
    It was decided after very broad discussions NOT to do that because being gay or lesbian should be seen as normal as other people.
    That was the profile the COC had succesfully used since the 50ies. And an awfull lot has been achieved that way without antagonising other people and groups into dedicated enemies !
    As assertive societal-cultural movement it used all the many channels there are to exert influence on everything and everybody. And do mind that many gay and lesbian people were as person part of the elites of societal, cultural, artist, authors, newsmedia and political groups.

    But yeah... the70ies gave an increasing political awareness and wanting to use public newsmedia and politics as main road for change and faster change was growing.

    So... in the late 70ies you get the Pink Saturdays for that more political manifestation with more provoking pride and aimed at newsmedia for discussions of change.
    Pink Saturday here starts with a oecumenic church service (tolerance ! freedom of religion freedom of gender) and then the parade. And the city changes every year.
    Over time... being in that post-LBGT phase regarding laws and politics.... that Pink Saturday is for now more a happy togetherness.

    The biggest strenght for the improvements imo was and is still the COC association and the big LBGT community in Amsterdam which was most of all about enjoying life among similar people and enough room to do that since WW2.
    Important (practical and as icon) was the change in law in 1971 that you could have legal homosex from 16 year onward (was 21 for homosex against 16 for heterosex).
    This was not achieved by politicised actions as people recognise those now.
    Same sex marriage became here legal in 2001. But in 1977 there was a party in the Amstel Taveerne to celebrate the marriage between the gay owner and a wellknown lesbian musician in 1977 (both had already their own same-sex relation).

    At that time it was all fun, ludricous actions, and living your life.

    And yeah... in the 80ies... the emancipation wave changing continuously... many women attending plenary political meetings started knitting sweaters during those meetings, especially lesbian women. The more idiotic male virility was dominating the talking... the harder the tick-tick of the knitting needles !
    Traditional politics... the "debate", the polarising... is I believe very much a male hetero tradition.
    Getting rid of that, getting balance, one of the fights imo still to do.

    Well... post-LBGT
    The common cause to get improvements as recognised by "the many" of the LBGT community is less there.
    If you have won you can reforge (most of) your swords into plowshares.

    On that "straight bashing"
    With all the movements and actions I was in, I always had my doubts on some companions in the sense of: "are you here mainly because you believe in the cause, or are you here mainly to use the tools ?"
    That sounds perhaps cynical. I learned to look that way by my father: his experience in the resistance in NL during WW2. There were an awfull lot of adventurers part of the resistance. (romantic) Rebels without a cause.
    It's all fine to some degree when there is a cause needing lots to do. But when you get into the eternal violence discussion, these adventurers are mostly a nasty risk for your genuine discussion on violence and your genuine cause.
    Protecting your movement from such negative side effects is unfortunately always part and parcel of maintaining a movement in good order.
    Most of that "maintaining" from "are you f****** crazy ?" to endless discussions, stayed indoors. Not like now.

    On the points Lemon raises
    +1
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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  2. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Chieftain

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    Who cares about acceptance? If someone doesn't accept me but can't legally murder me and get away with it, then I'd take that over someone accepting me but being able to bully or murder me.
     
  3. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    If you feel threatened of being "murdered", maybe you have the option of contacting the police.
    Now how you go from "legally murdering me and get away with it" to "bully" (which is something virtually all have suffered or suffer at some point) is another issue.
     
  4. adcarrymaokai

    adcarrymaokai Chieftain

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    You can be gay in Saudi Arabia, accepted by your family, but you can still be legally stoned to death by other people.
     
  5. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    @Lexicus: Are you of the opinion that all interior designers are LGBT people? Many are, but most probably aren't. Have you ever watched Trading Spaces? That show has an eclectic mix of designers, including both gay and straight designers and carpenters.

    @Birdjaguar: It's not pleasant to see a boomer comforting a non-boomer by saying, "There, there, our nasty generation is dying off and you're winning as each of us kicks the bucket."

    Dunno about you, but I don't consider myself part of the problem. And yes, I am old enough to be one of the baby boomer generation.
     
  6. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    That is because Saudi is a hell-hole.
     
  7. caketastydelish

    caketastydelish 49ers 2019

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    As a straight man, I never once gave a damn about any "straight pride parade" or felt the need to have such an event.

    That said, I will confess that I find it hilarious and enjoyable that so many people are being butthurt and "triggered" by it. If such an event occurred in my area, I would go to it just for the shock value comedic entertainment, to see how emotional the "counter" protestors would be. Hilarity would ensue, and it would be a very enjoyable use of my free time.
     
  8. red_elk

    red_elk Warlord

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    What you are talking about? Everybody knows it's illegal to be straight interior designer.
     
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  9. Commodore

    Commodore Technology of Peace

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    No. That's how a terrorist thinks. The fact that Gandhi was able to succeed with non-violence pretty much invalidates any movement's arguments or justifications for violence, even if violence is being used against them.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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  10. Yeekim

    Yeekim Warlord

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    Every 10,000 posts or so, Kyriakos posts something I wholeheartedly agree with.:thumbsup:
    Another thing that needs to QFT.

    Although I guess that raises the issue of the rest of BTQFUCVZX{\$, at some point bound to include people who can't be considered normal if the word is to retain any meaning at all... :think:
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
  11. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Nooo, it was a lighthearted joke...
     
  12. Truthy

    Truthy Titular character

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    Come to the US and I'll join your new Manson Family
     
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  13. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Warlord

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    Hmm I do not remember the gay marriage riots
     
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  14. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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  15. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Warlord

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    Sure it's connected but I don't think you can say it's solely and directly responsible for marriage equality 50 years later. Society changed a lot in that time.
     
  16. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    No, but I can definitely say, and would find wide agreement, that those riots were the beginning of the societal changes you're talking about. The riots made many people aware of the issue for the first time.
     
  17. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Warlord

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    I agree with that though I am a bit suspicious that there is a lot of retconning going on due to the anniversary of the event. I don't think the riots were well received then or for a long time after that. I guess I am just not comfortable giving sole credit to that riot given all the work that activists did in the intervening years and all of the hearts and minds that changed as well thanks to those activists. But hey, I'm just an ally so it's not really for me to say I guess
     
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  18. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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  19. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Warlord

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    There is a difference between 'leading to' and direct cause of. That's all I am saying
     
  20. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    I mean I would disagree with the literal meaning of the words in maokai's comment too but I'm not sure it was meant 100% literally.
     

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