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Prince Build/Wonderaholic cure New SG'ers welcome

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Ralph_Jackson, Apr 3, 2006.

  1. Ralph_Jackson

    Ralph_Jackson Emperor

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Edinburgh Scotland
    Well I am keen to get actively involved in SG, with a particular emphasis on discussing strategy and learning from each other. I am currently doing quite well on Prince but need some "team-mate" discipline to keep weaning me off my tendency to be addicted to Wonders / Excessive Infrastructure building.

    So

    1. New SGers +vely welcomed, of course experts are also welcome to lead us noob's by the hand.
    2. Emphasis will be on discussing / explaining strategy.

    Leader:To be Agreed or Random
    Level: Prince
    Map: Continents
    Size: Standard
    Speed: Epic or Standard (To be Agreed)

    Proposal - you can only build 1 World Wonder in each era. In the Stone Age, you can only build 1 out of {Stonehedge, Pyramids, Oracle}. In the next age, you can only build 1 out of {Colossus, Great Library, Great Lighthouse, Pathenon}, etc. - A real choice with real debate as to the wonder we genuinely want / need. :king: . Other than that a pretty standard style of game hence the emphasis on relative novices like me!! :goodjob:

    Ralph

    Slots:-

    1. Ralph
    2. Lobsterboy
    3. Idle
    4. Lampness
    5. UNCPenguin

    Alternates
    1. Open
    2. Open
     
  2. Lobsterboy

    Lobsterboy Immature crustacean

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
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    690
    Location:
    Downeast Maine
    Still very much a Prince noob, but I'm game. Sign me up!
     
  3. GreyFox

    GreyFox Make it so ...

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    Lurker's Comments

    To be really cured of wonders, I would suggest instead of ruling out certain wonders, simply ruled that you can only build 1 World Wonder in each era. In the Stone Age, you can only build 1 out of {Stonehedge, Pyramids, Oracle}. In the next age, you can only build 1 out of {Colossus, Great Library, Great Lighthouse, Pathenoron}, etc. That way, you can still adapt to your starting situation, and yet still limit your wonder building. Ofcourse shrines and national wonders are not considered as World Wonders.

    -
     
  4. Ralph_Jackson

    Ralph_Jackson Emperor

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    Lobsterboy Welcome Aboard :goodjob: People for whom Prince is a challenge are exactly what we are looking for . I can still lose on Prince if I make a mistake and I think we can have a very useful debate when we are all operating at about the same level.

    Greyfox - Cracking suggestion :D - Gradually wean ourselves off wonders and by allowing us a choice reinforces the need for a conscious deicison to build a wonder rather than just defaulting to chopping a pyramid / stonehenge for the GP + Oracle slingshot of various flavours that I used to fall into. Proposal changed to reflect your suggestion. Thanks :king:

    Ralph
     
  5. idle

    idle Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    125
    Location:
    Oslo
    I'm interested. So far I've only won cultural, space and domination (with the romans) on prince level.

    Sign me up.


    Edit: Oh, and I forgot: it's my first SG :)
     
  6. Lampness

    Lampness Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    48
    If you don't mind another (prince/noble) newbie, sign me up! :)
     
  7. Rex Tyrannus

    Rex Tyrannus 280lbs of gross stupidity

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
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    Location:
    Charlotte, NC USA
    Lurker's Comments:

    To go along with GreyFox's comment, I'd say that many wonderholics build wonders without truly thinking about the gains. They just build as many as they can (usually all in one city).

    Each wonder has a specific function and is most useful to specific games.

    Are you an economic leader in an archepelego map? Build the collosus. But that same set-up would be a horrible world to put the statue of liberty in.

    Warmongers can build Rushmore and the Pentagon.

    You've got a ton of high food resources? The Pyramids with early representation can let you cash in on early specialists and leap ahead in the science game.

    I never build more than a few wonders, but I always at least build two or three. I'd take a look at your start. A few turns in should show you how the game might progress.

    Target those wonders that will best help your long-term goals and refuse to build any others.

    My $0.02
     
  8. Ralph_Jackson

    Ralph_Jackson Emperor

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    Idle & Lampness consider your self signed up. I actually think it can be quite helpful that we are all at a similar level and not SG experts as we will all feel able to contribute (and make mistakes :blush: )

    As we are nearing a full compliment a few questions:

    1. Any particular CIV's people want to play or would prefer not to play. Or would your prefer random?

    2. Speed Epic or Standard?

    3. Just to check happy with Standard Sized Continents? ( I can get the wife to check without telling me if people would prefer not to have an "alone on an Island Start" position!)

    4. A few suggestions.
    i) Please don't leave Turn Off growth switched on as it catches people out
    ii) Please don't leave Workers Automated (see above)
    iii) Patch 1.52 is installed
    iv) Please don't leave units on Go To Orders at the end of your turnset but say where you were sending them in your write up if important
    v) Don't be shy about asking for a skip your session / swapping places as this is meant to be a relaxed chilled out game.

    5. Anything else to discuss?

    I will aim to get a start position posted up tonight for us all to debate!!

    Ralph
     
  9. idle

    idle Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    125
    Location:
    Oslo
    We'll learn from each other, and when we screw up, maybe a lurker or two will set us straight...

    1. No particular civ preference, but the romans are too easy IMHO, and I've played lizzie and cathy way too much. Perhaps a non-financial leader?

    2. Either is fine by me. Epic is easier if we warmonger, i think.

    3. Standard Continents it is.

    4. All ok

    5. Raging barbs? I love to be scared the first 100 turns :mischief: and the free XP is helpful.
     
  10. UNCpenguin

    UNCpenguin Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
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    69
    Location:
    Chapel HIll, NC
    I'm new to sg's as well but would like to sign up if there is space still avialable
     
  11. Ralph_Jackson

    Ralph_Jackson Emperor

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    UNCPenguin - Added you to the roster and welcome, don't worry most of us are new to SG'ing which means we will all make (and readily forgive!!) mistakes :cool:

    Let me have your views on Civs you would like to play / not play and game speed / raging barbarians.

    Idle I agree we should knock off Ceasar as he is over played :agree: . As far as non-financial that is also fine by me but it will affect strategy quite a bit so would like to hear the others' views. As we are aiming not to do many Wonders Non-Industrious also seems sensible which is narrowing the field down nicely.

    Raging Barbarians On would be a pretty dramatic change to the game and for those wanting to improve their Prince Level skills might be a step too far (albeit a fun one!! :evil: ) so lets hear their views too.

    Anyway we have enough people to kick things off. I will get a start position up in about 4 hours when I am home from work :mischief: if we have settled on a Leader / Raging Barbarians by then!!

    Ralph
     
  12. UNCpenguin

    UNCpenguin Chieftain

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    Ive been playing with random civ a lot lately (even though they pit me as isabella a lot), so I'm pretty much up for whoever. I say bring on the barbs, nothing a few:rolleyes: .....fog busters can't handle.
     
  13. Ralph_Jackson

    Ralph_Jackson Emperor

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    OK Unless I hear to the contrary from Lampness / Lobsterboy I will roll up a Standard Continent start position this evening based on

    1.Not Ceasar, Lizzie or Cathy and I will re-roll if we get an industrious leader as we are limiting our Wonder Building
    2. Epic Speed
    3. Raging Barbs on (Lets go for it:dance: )

    Ralph
     
  14. Lampness

    Lampness Chieftain

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    Yeah, I'm ok with all the settings posted above. Let's start the game!
     
  15. Lobsterboy

    Lobsterboy Immature crustacean

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    No preferences here. I always play random civs, so they are all fine by me, even Cathy and Liz. (I haven't played either of them recently.) The only leader I'm not keen on is Louie, as we are playing him in my other current SG (PH1-Jumping to Prince).

    I also say bring on the Barbs.

    On and unrelated note, what is it with Tilted Axis maps? I always seem to get my a** kicked when I play them!
     
  16. Ralph_Jackson

    Ralph_Jackson Emperor

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    Well here is the Start Position after rolling Saladin




    And it raises a couple of questions

    1. Do we move Northwest 1 square to get a city on the coast 9my inclination). This retains the food special but does give up two hills so will probably be weaker in production terms but a better commerce city / GP farmlater. Views?
    2. I think production is a know brainer (Warrior) as we have raging barbs on!!
    3. As far as research. It feels strongly like Mining -> Bronze working so we can chop particulalrly if we are in a slightly production poor Coastal Start. Alternatives would be Polytheism (should be attainable as AI will go for Buddhism first unless we have Gandhi as an Opponent.

    So lets have views

    Ralph

    Order of Play

    1. Ralph (20 turns)
    2. Lobsterboy (15 Turns)
    3. Idle (10 turns hereafter)
    4. Lampness
    5. UNCPenguin
     
  17. Lampness

    Lampness Chieftain

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    I think we should settle in place. Those two grassland hills seal the deal for me. Also, we have cows, which will give us even more food and production. I say settle in place.

    About research path...I'm not sure. Last couple of games I have played against AI, I've gone for the worker skills first and let someone else take the religions. But since we're Saladin and have mysticism, we could try to get a religion.
     
  18. Ralph_Jackson

    Ralph_Jackson Emperor

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    As far as research goes i think the placing of the First City m atters. If we stay in place then:

    Polytheism -> Mining -> Bronze working looks right to me to
    1. Get a Religion
    2. Leverage the hills with Mines on the way to
    3. Finding copper + chopping the plentiful forests in our Starting Position (Health is not that big an issue w/out Floodplains/ Jungle on Prince).

    So aim will be to get people's views tonight then Play + post results tomorrow

    View attachment 122174
     
  19. idle

    idle Warlord

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    Location:
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    Saladin is philosophical/spiritual.

    Shouldn't we to move the warrior to the hut first? Maybe a good tile will be revealed, and a worker tech changes everything. :D

    I agree with settling in place if nothing good is found by the warrior. We will need a little production if we want to keep a few forests around and still get a wonder. GPP is our forte.

    A warrior isn't necessary just yet, as real barbs don't appear until 3000BC (maybe even later). Even so, its good to have 2 units, even just for nearby scouting. If we go for a religion (i agree about polytheism) an early worker will have nothing to do other than roadbuilding. That's okay, but with raging barbs, we'll need an escort.

    My choices would be to go for polytheism and start a warrior.

    Edit:
    So, I opened the save and popped the hut with our stalwarth defenders.
    (Does this violate the rules? I hope not...)
    There's a crab off the coast, and a forested hill within the fat cross if we move the settler NW.

    On the other hand, I always move to a seemingly better spot, just to find that if I'd settled in place I'd have gold in my fat cross...
     
  20. Ralph_Jackson

    Ralph_Jackson Emperor

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    Idle. Good call it sounds a sensible compromise to move the warrior to the Hut and seeing if there is a nice sea resource in view and moving the settler in that case. (with Seafood + Cows but no hills a GP Factory is begging to be made later)

    Part of the logic for the Warrior first is there is nothing important for a worker to do just yet (until Mining comes in + Pop Increase) particularly if we move away from the hills.

    Seems we are all agreed on snagging Hinduism (as long as Gnadhi's not about; even Spain on a lake will go to Buddhism first so we should be OK).

    Ralph
     

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