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[Prince] Need advice on a rush I did

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by jnebbe, Feb 26, 2020.

  1. jnebbe

    jnebbe Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2019
    Messages:
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    Gender:
    Male
    Prince, standard size and time, no huts vassals espionage random events, random civ -> Alexander
    Really only playing bts so I can turn huts off and turn counter, probably a mod somewhere that does that for vanilla but I can't be bothered

    First off, under what scenarios should you even rush? I decided here to rush because I had a unique unit that would help, a civ that was very close to me, and because he had a great capital+2gold nearby and I didn't want to let him boom with that. Anything else I should keep in mind? What leaders should I keep in mind, both that are good for rushing and that I shouldn't rush?

    Start



    moved scout, going to settle on hill
    (forgot that only plains hills will give bonus hammer for capital, but I still think that's a good spot)


    t1

    settled athens, started worker, teching agriculture

    t3

    borders expanded and I see some silver, I can settle between those 2 plains hills and share the deer

    t9

    ok lincoln is extremely close and he has 2 golds, might rush him

    t10
    agriculture finished, teching mining

    t15

    met wang kon
    washington is on a hill :/

    t16
    worker finished, farming the corn, starting a warrior

    t17
    mining finished, teching bw
    I think im gonna rush Lincoln. I don't like him being this close and he has a really great city spot. Having phallanx means I basically don't have to get archery for a while since they will counter everything when defending
    going to build 2 warriors and wait until athens grows to pop 3, then start a settler and chop it and settle near copper hopefully

    18
    met charlamange

    t21
    finished farm on corn, going to make a camp on deer to make sure i get 3 pop before finishing bw

    t22
    met peter

    t26

    ok so I'm growing much faster than I thought, going to finish this warrior then start a 2nd warrior, then switch to settler as soon as I grow to 4

    actually I'm going to finish that warrior and then start the settler, I want to explore the east with this warrior and it doesn't make sense to wait to grow to 4 if I'll have an angry citizen


    also idk what to do with this worker, ideally he could build something in 4 turns and then move into a forest on the 5th turn and then immediately begin chopping when bw finishes
    I think im going to send him to the hill 1N of capital and start a mine
    I could go 1W and start a farm but that's kinda pointless since an empty floodplain will give the same results

    t28

    lost scout while he was in a forest :(

    t31

    bw finished, copper to nw
    also got slavery
    going to settle 1NE of copper so I can get the rice too, sending my warrior over there because I think barbs can spawn now
    there's a nice river nearby and I'm not 100% sure how rivers connecting cities work yet but I think it will minimize roads needed
    I'm getting the wheel anyway

    t32
    worker finished mine, went into a forest and will start chopping next turn

    t36

    settler finishes in 1 turn, sending this worker up to the copper
    I think I'm going to build a 2nd warrior and then let athens grow to 4, then whip a worker out. with 3 pop I could only save 1 turn by losing 1 pop and I dont think thats worth it

    t37

    warrior finishes in 2, grows to 4 pop in 3

    t38
    wheel just finished, teching AH
    lincoln just got slavery so he just finished bw, I can't imagine that there's copper in his borders and the closest one is on that desert, I'll make sure he doesn't get that
    (1N2W of sparta's rice, forgot a picture i guess)

    t40

    sparta founded, immediately mining copper
    I'm building a barracks in athens, lincoln's archers will be like 7 strength so I really want city raider, i can't build phallanx right now anyway and it lets athens grow to 5

    t45

    mine finished and built a road on the mine, sending worker 1N to farm
    so I'm pretty sure that all I need is a road 1W of athens to connect the cities, barracks just finished in athens so I'm going to whip a worker and do just that

    t49

    ok I didn't know rivers don't connect cities outside your borders, I think I just need a road on those 2 tiles between the cities?
    build a warrior and scout in athens
    starting a 3rd settler in athens since all I can make are warriors workers settlers and scouts


    **splitting up post because of image limit**
     
  2. jnebbe

    jnebbe Chieftain

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    t50

    AH finished, horses outside sparta very nice I guess
    teching pottery

    t51

    Lincoln's worker will be mining for 5 turns, I sent sparta's warrior over to steal it

    t54

    ok I don't understand why the cities aren't connected now, I think I need to build another road where my worker is now
    lincoln made a 2nd city 2N1E of the copper, he's not charismatic so I don't have to worry about him getting it yet
    also realised that putting cover on my phallanx is slightly better than city raider, better odds against archers and phallanx will beat warriors anyway
    idk if I should steal that worker, if I go to war with him now, will he start making tons of units now?
    settler whipped in athens, going to settle by the silver south of athens

    t55

    apparently you need sailing if just 1 river tile is outside border, may as well make a 3rd worker and finish the entire road now

    t57

    whipped worker last turn and then sent him to wrong tile lmao
    founded corinth
    met hannibal

    t60

    athens finally has copper
    idk what kind of timeframe I have for this attack, I feel like im kind of late but I really don't know

    note to self, I left the warrior in top right there forever, couldve been scouting washington more


    t65

    idk what to research now
    mysticism - not important, lincoln doesn't have religion and idk where anyone else is
    aesthetics - not important, I don't have any of the resources I need
    sailing - not important anymore
    mathematics - +50% chopping hammers is nice, aquaduct isn't important now
    alphabet - not a bad choice
    archery - still think it's not needed right now with phallanx
    masonry - not important
    horseback riding - not important
    iron working - maybe, kinda a gamble if iron spawns in my borders and swordsmen will only be slightly more effective, I really don't want to wait too much longer for this attack
    metal casting - maybe

    I think im picking alphabet, idk if I can kill lincoln fully here but if not I could get some tech from him at least


    t72

    sparta finishes a phallanx in 6 turns and spearmen in 1 in athens, going to chop another phallanx in athens and then im ready, will have 7 phallanx and 1 spear
    lincoln still doesn't have that copper and I dont think he has any to the north, i haven't checked, that was a mistake, i had a warrior fortified on his east border for a while that could've checked
    I saw he had a chariot

    t75

    open borders with lincoln
    he had 3 cities now
    2 archers + 1 chariot in washington

    t81

    declared war
    stole 2 workers with warrior in the north

    t83

    washington captured, 3 phallanx and 1 spear left
    1 archer + 1 warrior in new york
    have a chariot chasing my workers in the north, will delete them if I can't get away

    t84

    my warrior north killed his chariot, will try to get workers back to washington
    alphabet finished, started archery
    lincoln doesn't want to talk yet

    t87

    rushed a phallanx in sparta, sending him, 2 phallanx and 1 spear in washington over to try and take new york
    lincoln will give me mysticism for peace, I want more
    barb city to my west

    t88

    1 archer + 1 axe + 1 chariot in new york vs my 3 phallanx + 1 spear, idk probably not going to work
    teching mysticism so maybe lincoln will give me a little more for peace
    moved 1 phallanx to a hill north of washington and then moved the 2 workers there, they can only be attacked by a chariot next turn and phallanx get 100% against chariots so I should be safe

    t89

    ready to try and attack new york
    he made a new city to the northwest
    phallanx and workers made it safely back to washington

    t94

    made peace with lincoln, not strong enough right now to take new york
    I at least made him adopt paganism instead of whatever he had

    t98

    founded thebes
    since new york now has the palace Im not going to be able to out culture it right now, going to finish currency then get construction asap and attack new york with catapults
    traded alphabet for iron working and masonry to wang kon


    attaching a save of turn 101, forgot to make a save of turn 0
    1 big question I have is what kind of time frame I have for an early game rush. I feel like I was super slow here
    My early game in general is not great. I kept playing and completely destroyed lincoln. At that point I was at a massive tech disadvantage but had 3-5 more cities than anyone else. I started booming and building all my cities up and improving them all and now I have a sizable score lead. I'm still behind in tech but the gap is closing. Is this "rebuild" playstyle common when going for early rushes? And what do you do if someone else delcares war on you during this time?
     

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  3. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Since you are seemingly ignoring the advice given in other threads, I'll just link you a youtube game featuring an early attack. GL.

     
    lymond likes this.
  4. Qactus

    Qactus Romani ite domum

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    This is a big problem, I mean the fact that you still think it is a good spot. Compare your BFC with that one tile to the west. You exchanged a large chunk of juicy riverside for crap tiles and all of that was visible before settler move.
     
  5. krikav

    krikav Theorycrafter

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    Sweden
    You rush early when you need to because you are severely boxed in and can't get land peacefully.
    Or because you can and want because it's fun.

    It's quite common to get behind in tech but ahead in land after such manuvers and what you do is that you simply recover, lay down cottages, build wealth, catch up.

    If someone DoWs you this time you handle it the same way that you handle DoWs in any other situation, except that you most likely have a small stack of surviving veteran units somewhere.
     
  6. Anysense

    Anysense King

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    Third city slowed you down a great deal. Huge amount of hammers (nearly 3 phlanx worth) only to borrow food from Athens.

    You chopped too little. Chopping essential for an early rush.

    There was no reason to move other than 1S or 1SW to avoid ruining the forest. Wasting a turn to lose freshwater and exchange FP for a dry corn does not make much sense.
     
    Excal and Lennier like this.
  7. Anysense

    Anysense King

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    I think axe-rush is fully justified here because our land is rather poor and Lincoln's is very rich.
     
  8. Qactus

    Qactus Romani ite domum

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    IMO moving 1S is a huge gamble that in hindsight gains the silver, but given only the information from the scout move just means moving away from your food resource. For me 1N is crystal clear, gains the food and keeps everything in the BFC
     
  9. Harv

    Harv Emperor Supporter

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    Hang on. I have to consider what you said, because it might be relevant to my current game, which I saved at a point where I hot a wall - and that’s when I found out the Zulus love to spam units and can have five archers defending their capital by Turn 68.

    What you posted here might suggest I can give peace a chance if I’m smarter about expansion and claiming resources.
     
    krikav likes this.
  10. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Yep, if I can settle 4 to 6 good cities with no probs, I don't really consider an early rush. If that is the case, the neighbors are probably too far...relatively speaking...for a rush anyway (we're talking like axes here or some very early UU). That certainly does not preclude an HA rush, which I don't put into the same category as "early rush"..or later elepults. And I still certainly may harass some poor doofus for his workers nerfing him into oblivion. But in some cases you may be in such a boxed in situation that if you have the access to something strong you may have to go for it.

    Peaceful expansion to decent land usually always wins out though, as early rushes have their own issues/sacrifices..and they can backfire.

    Early rushes are about surprise and numbers. Shaka may build a lot of units, but that does not mean you can't catch him off-guard, if you keep an eye on things. Keep an eye on settler escorts and don't DOW until you are ready to pounce.
     
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  11. Anysense

    Anysense King

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    1N loses 2 tiles that might have more food. It is better than 1NE, yet I'd rather save a turn and keep the forest.
     

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