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prince or harder is not so fun because of money problems

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Jim Bro, May 1, 2011.

  1. Jim Bro

    Jim Bro Emperor of Quebec

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    388
    Location:
    Quebec
    hi guys,

    the more i play civ5, the more i hate playing prince (i've never tried harder and i don't think i will).

    even if i'm pretty sure i'll get my science victory with my current game (at prince) because i'm alone on a big piece of land and while i already won diplomatically at prince in the past and have a 100% chance of winning at warlord, i still prefer playing warlord.

    why? because i never have money at prince and markets don't help so much.

    ex: i'm playing with the iroquois (usually i build trading posts on my forests) and still have barely 40 bucks in my treasury and im in 1200 AD. I HAVE 6 MILITARY UNITS FOR GOD SAKE. not even one for each city. how am i suppose to gain influence with city-states with such low budget? how am i gonna be able to afford aqueducs and water mills needed for growth in the forest? not to mention i always get bypassed for wonders.

    the point is: civ5 players like to build stuff and win by other reason than because the AI is too bad at battle. no money means less enjoyement. :(

    even though winning at prince is very feasible, it's not very fun. they should make the military/tactical AI more efficient at battle and not give the AI such a ridiculously high happiness/wonder/money bonus.

    in my opinion: civ5 is only good because of it's beautifulness not because of the AI and diplomacy (and my poll shows this check out POLL: things that make us angry in civ5). this game has much more potential. hope they fix this before releasing another civ...
     
  2. Save_Ferris

    Save_Ferris Admiring Myself

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    Straight Outa Ponyville
    Agreed, usually happiness is low too.
     
  3. eazyseeker

    eazyseeker Warlord

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    214
    'Notch up the difficulty a bit. Go King. The AI will have more money. Sell them your luxuries (all of them. then declare war if your happiness is negative). Never agree open borders unless you want to befriend them. Never agree friendship declarations unless you don't want to exterminate them. Early-game run `builder` strategy and then rush-buy units if you're going for domination. If not, just run builder the entire game.

    About unhappiness... trade luxuries with the AI. It might not give you so much $, but you still gain happiness right?

    Also, money problem: units tend to cost a lot to maintain and sometimes just fill up space. Go tradition->oligarchy and/or honor->military caste. Garrison units in cities. You'll gain gpt and/or happiness for each of them.
     
  4. Jim Bro

    Jim Bro Emperor of Quebec

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    Location:
    Quebec
    well i surely will never have 30 happiness at prince but yeah happiness is pretty low too. i don't care too much about happiness being in the -5 +5 range but money is so rare at this difficulty level that i'd rather kick everyone else asses at warlord than seekin to win at prince or harder just for the sake of it.

    too much of a gap between warlord and prince. they should make prince difficult but not because of scarce gold. it's my low budget and not being able to build wonders that bothers me at high difficulty not the happiness by the way.

    the AI is so bad at winning this game that almost everyone can win at hard difficulty but i think it's boring after warlord.
     
  5. zarakand

    zarakand Prince

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    Nov 4, 2005
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    561
    Location:
    Chicago
    Try deciding what kind of empire you want to have, for example if you want to be gold focused make sure you are specializing your cities for that and choosing the right social policies.

    It just takes changing your playing style a bit.
     
  6. Kaosprophet

    Kaosprophet Warlord

    Joined:
    May 7, 2009
    Messages:
    244
    Not sure what you're doing differently than I am, but... I usually have reasonable cash reserves playing at Prince. Not so much that I can just toss it around without budgetting, but enough to work with for most things.
     
  7. Jim Bro

    Jim Bro Emperor of Quebec

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    i've only unlocked the honor branch so far
     
  8. zarakand

    zarakand Prince

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    Try skipping that and focusing on things like freedom, or commerce if you care only about gold. There are a lot of benefits to going the honor social policy path, but an abundance of gold normally isn't one of them.

    I like combining the tradition and freedom social policies those two trees allow me to have a lot of gold, and a tall empire.
     
  9. Jim Bro

    Jim Bro Emperor of Quebec

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    i thought tradition was for small empires...
     
  10. zarakand

    zarakand Prince

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    It is, but you can have a strong empire of 4-6 cities and compete with anyone I find.
     
  11. jagdtigerciv

    jagdtigerciv Prince

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    Sep 27, 2007
    Messages:
    468
    I play on Immortal and rarely have money problems. You seem to be focusing your build on something that isn't wealth generation.

    Firstly, even if your spamming trading posts, are you working those tiles while maintaining population growth? Do you have Economics research? The latest patches have reduces the gold produced by trading post before Economics, making them typically only worthwhile *after* economics.

    Secondly, the Trees of tradition and liberty have been changed dramatically. Tradition gives bonus' like free culture buildings in 4 cities -- meaning that it can benefit large empires dramatically early in the game and grab some large culture growth with early Temples +specialists. Also, Landed Elite's +2 food per cities, and +15% growth benefits both small and large empires likewise -- it's actually more beneficial for the more cities you have.

    Liberty tree is often built around the new Meritocracy of a Free great person of your choice --> meaning you can push a Great engineer to scoop up the Great Library, pushing Civil Service earlier --> this will increase your food output significantly earlier, allowing more growth.

    Remember, high population is the key to wealth. Population increases trade route income while giving you more worked tiles with wealth. When you pushed Honour tree while neglecting those two trees, you missed out on so many early opportunities to grow your cities. Financially, you're suffering.
     
  12. Brichals

    Brichals King

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    Location:
    Berlin, D
    I think it's possible to make money on Prince level and happiness can also be gained but its tricky. Are you specialising your cities? I always make at least 1 production city, 1 gold city and 1 great person (i.e. high food, high pop.) city (capital normally). The other cities I make are just for resources mainly. In the gold city I only build trading posts and markets/bank etc. This is normally best on a river with grassland tiles I find but I'm not an expert. This 1 gold city can normally pay for my empire pretty much.

    Another thing is be careful where you let your cities grow. Use the avoid growth button. Letting population get large outside of your 3 'core' cities is a waste of happiness. As these smaller cities will have less modifier buidlings like banks and national colleges etc. This is very important at King level I find. Macromanagement is actually trickier in 5 than Civ4 I think as it's a global thing and not just city based.
     
  13. ColinTH

    ColinTH Prince

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    Markets do at least give you base gold and no mainenance, but they do require workable gold producing tiles, the key is to make sure you have a good mix of food, hammers and gold.

    Make sure you have a river near your Capital, preferably one that runs the length of your cultural workable expansion, build farms for growth, then once you have researched economics change some of the farms into trading posts. If you have a mountain nearby then build Machu Pichu.

    If your random map turns out to be Archipelago and you have workable sea resources nearby, then research bronze working and build the Colossus as a priority. Then head towards optics building fishing boats and a lighthouse. You will be wealthy!

    Good luck in future games.
     
  14. Babri

    Babri Emperor

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    Hmm... So you've problems managing your treasury. Here are some tips :-
    • Try to get Commerce opener to get :c5gold: bonus in your capital.
    • Try to get your capital as big as possible. It would increase your :c5gold: income from trade routes.
    • Sell extra luxuries even if the civs are hostile & paying you 100-200 bucks. Why ? Because they already get massive happiness bonuses so that won't make any difference.
    • Try using your merchant specialist. They can be nice in some situations.
    • Try to keep a medium sized army unless you're going for domination.
    • Build markets everywhere. Try getting some golden ages for extra gold.
    • Sell strategic resources that you're not going to use (except Uranium).
     
  15. aatami

    aatami Kuruth Urfarah, kuruth!

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    I usually play on difficulty level 6 or 7, and I don't have any problems...
     
  16. Eat_My_Brains

    Eat_My_Brains Chieftain

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    What kind of population are you at in your cities OP? I tend to grow about 4 cities, really tall and have about 70gpt (even more in golden ages).
     
  17. CYZ

    CYZ Toileteer

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    Don't build buildings that cost maintenance and you don't need. I greatly improved my game when I realized you need to be hesitant with constructing buildings that will cost you in the future. Only do it if you know it's worthwhile. And be sure to sell buildings if you don't need them anymore.
     
  18. Eat_My_Brains

    Eat_My_Brains Chieftain

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    In my current game (admitedly late into the game- industrial - turn 284, standard speed) im getting 225gpt and I havent built a single trade post. But eitherway ive been building quite happily without going into negative equity for the whole of this game.

    Try the tradition SP and grow your cities taller, focus on food at first and then your cities will generate more gold later as the more citizens you have, the more tiles you can work!

    EDIT: Actually thats not strictly true, I do have a few puppets as egypt and england decided to start on me even though I had a 10 tech lead over the next most powerfull civ. Eitherway though you should be able to get at least 100gpt out of 4 cities.
     
  19. Samuil

    Samuil Warlord

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    The only thing I can think of is bad city placement?
    are we playing the same game? Unless you try to ally every single city state out there or regularly purchase buildings or units, I have no clue why you are low on cash, especially with the Iroquius... Do you biuld roads all over the place maybe? No idea... I played all my games on Prince and my last 3 on King, no problems with cash, and am usually among the richest civs by end game...
     
  20. Fabiano1979

    Fabiano1979 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2010
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    City specialization is the answer you are looking for.

    You cant play on king or higher building everything on your cities. You must choose a couple of military cities and focus the others on gold generation/tech/culture..depending the victory you want to achiev.
     

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