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prince or harder is not so fun because of money problems

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Jim Bro, May 1, 2011.

  1. Mustakrakish

    Mustakrakish In 'Node' We Trust

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    Just play at the difficulty that feels good to you and enjoy yourself. ;)
     
  2. wannabewarlord

    wannabewarlord Prince

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    Are you working luxuries?
    Are you building trade routes that pay for themselves or yield net profit?
    Are you placing appropriate multiplier buildings in the cities that are strong on gold first? (a city that works 0 gold has only a marginal use for a market. At least it is not a priority...)
    Are you selling open borders (50g), and luxuries (300g) as soon as you can?

    Don't buy units if you don't have to.
    Don't ally city states just for the sake of allying.
    Don't build every building (maintenance) in every city.

    Try out different policies. The small empire/large empire categorization for the first two branches is not so set in stone anymore. Don't limit yourself, try out the options the game offers you.

    I play Emperor and rarely have money problems, and I am not yet following the advanced tactics, just my tips above.
     
  3. Kerosene31

    Kerosene31 Prince

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    If you have money problems on prince you must be building way, way too many buildings (since you have a small army).

    Only build what is essential in your cities.
     
  4. Civ4Brains

    Civ4Brains imperfectus

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    you're telling us how bad certain aspects of the game are but truthfully we don't know how good/bad a player you might be. to me it sounds like you don't run a particularly efficient empire, but to verify whether this is the case (because i could be wrong) post a mid to late game save and let some of us analyse precisely where you might be going wrong.
     
  5. SRG

    SRG Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
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    My last Prince game (this weekend) was with France. I had seven cities, planted early and then grew tall for a culture win. Near the end of the game, I was running about +216 GPT, BEFORE a golden age boosted it to something like +380ish.

    Key to high GPT: Lots of population, efficient trade routes, every money-making building you can build in every city, and social policies that help you get the previous three things easily.

    If you have a good city site with lots of Silver or Gold or Gems or Fish or other gold based things, you can set it to run on Gold focus.
     
  6. RealHuhn

    RealHuhn Emperor

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    Aug 31, 2009
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    Location:
    Germany
    I'm surprised that nobody mentioned roads yet.

    By any chance, do you spam roads like in CIV IV? Because in CIV V, they cost maintance and you don't have to connect your ressources via roads.

    I bet that's a common mistake and it's always worth mentioning.

    But yeah, selling luxuries should be your main income in the early game.
     
  7. SRG

    SRG Warlord

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    Sep 24, 2010
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    Ah yes, I keep forgetting that it is such a big change from IV.

    I totally crashed a game back when V first came out trying to build roads to all my luxury resources.

    Just the most direct route to cities, using the least tiles of road/railroad. ie: efficient trade routes.


    But if you mouse hover on the GPT number it will give you a breakdown of where the money is coming from, and where it is going.
     
  8. King Patrick

    King Patrick Warlord

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    Apr 4, 2011
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    You have a lot of good advice here. Gold sometimes runs tight for me, particularly before markets or other economic buildings are available, but I rarely have extended or game-crippling problems with it unless I've started playing on autopilot. :)

    My somewhat generic economy tips:

    + Click on the gold counter on the upper left. This will tell you your per-turn income & expenses, and how much you are paying per turn for buildings, military, and roads. This will help you diagnose where you are bleeding cash.

    + Buildings have per-turn maintenance costs. Constructing every building in every city is a fast way to go broke, particularly before the economic buildings like markets and banks come into play. Which leads to:

    + Specialize your cities. Production, science, gold, culture-happiness. Mostly the last 3, you only need one to three production-heavy cities for your military & wonders. Determine the specialty by the terrain - lots of hills & forests, production. Lots of farms (high pop), science. Gold, silver, or gems, gold. Etc. Prioritize the buildings in each city for its specialty. Only diversify if your economy's in good shape & you can afford the "extra" building costs (normally after the economic buildings kick in later in the game).

    + Military units cost gold each turn to maintain. You have to hit a balance between a military big enough to deter aggressors without breaking the bank.

    (With only six units, this doesn't sound like a problem for you).

    + Sell excess luxuries. If you can't trade for luxuries you don't have or don't need the extra happiness, sell duplicate luxuries to the other civs for up to 300 gold every 30 turns.

    + Connect trade routes. This is the biggie. Connect every city by roads or harbors. The bigger your cities grow, the more trade income you get. However, roads cost 1 gold per tile per turn now, so build the absolute minimum necessary - it's very easy to swamp your economy with excess roads. One road between each city on the most direct route possible. Each city doesn't need to connect to the capital, only to a city that is connected, i.e., Antium to Corinth to Rome. You don't need roads to luxuries or other resources at all (but you do need to improve resource tiles with mines, corrals, plantations, fishing boats, etc., to work the resource).

    (But you're playing Hiawatha, so if you place your cities right you won't need hardly any roads at all - forest tiles within your territory count as roads & trade routes. Plan your empire to take advantage of this.)

    + Build every economic building in your capital and your gold-specialty cities as soon as possible. If you have an opportunity to diversify your other cities, make economic buildings your first priority after that city's specialty.

    + Be judicious bribing city-states and forming research agreements. Sometimes I suspect the other civs offer RAs specifically to deplete your treasury. :) And you can run out of money fast bribing city-states to be your allies. I only ally with city-states when I need something, like a luxury I'm missing or, even better, one I need for a "We Love the King" celebration in two or more cities. Even if you are going for a diplomacy win, there will be plenty of time later in the game to win city-state allies once your economy is chugging along.
     
  9. JaGarLo

    JaGarLo Settler

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    Location:
    There (points with his finger)
    I played some games at Prince and I never had a big problem with gold. In about 1200 AD I got about 30-50 income.

    Try to check in where do you spend a lot of money (too much roads, your cities can't work any title that gaves $, etc.) or where do you can get money (building markets and banks, trading posts, begging leaders to pay you, etc.)
     
  10. Jim Bro

    Jim Bro Emperor of Quebec

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    thx for giving me tips but i don't get your point. how going for king is gonna change the fact that i don't have any money playing prince. it's not gonna be any easier. plus that's what i said. it's stupid that unit maintenance is so high when i only have 6 units. my science is ok but i have the feeling that gold is too rare at prince (and perhaps at higher difficulty levels too) and for that reason, i'd rather stick to warlord. so bad that warlord isn't more difficult though.. i might simply be not too good of a player but i played all civs versions and this one over 300 hours lol.
     
  11. Jim Bro

    Jim Bro Emperor of Quebec

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    ok thx for the tips guys and no i'm not spamming roads everywhere. it's just that i have the feeling that civ5 should give us more gold to spend at prince or higher and that there is too much of a gap between warlord and prince but that's just my opinion.

    by the way you helped me a lot. i forgot to sell my luxuries (i usually trade them for other luxuries) so i'm gonna try that. i have some growth problems too (lots of forests around the iroquois). some of my cities are stuck at like 4-5 or so and i'm now in 1500 AD (capital has 8 of pop). i'm far from what i had with India. anyways it's a hard game for me. good thing i have no foes and no one ever declared war against me. i don't know how i managed to win at prince with Greece but whatever i'll see what happens. iroquois might not be my favorite civ... thx
     
  12. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    The point is, at higher difficulties, the AI has more money, so you can sell them luxury resources. You really shouldn't need to, though.

    What is your unit maintenance? For most of the game, it should be minimal. I feel there's something else going on. How about a screenshot of your civ, maybe while mousing over the gold icon so we can see the expenses breakdown?
     
  13. Babri

    Babri Emperor

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    Cut down some of the forests that you don't need & place farms there. Your cities will still have plenty of production due to forests + lumbercamp + longhouse.
     
  14. Jim Bro

    Jim Bro Emperor of Quebec

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    i did chop three forests whith lumbermills on them thinking it would cut down my himeji castle 75 turns-or so production time (for a city with only 2 pops) and it only save me like 20 turns max and 5 turns later someone bypassed me...
     
  15. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

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    I think this is worth repeating. I always had worse money problems on prince than on King, simply because the AI never has enough gold to buy your stuff on Prince. Getting 300 gold every now & then is a big boost that can keep your economy going while you set up the longer-term infrastructure (trade routes, markets, banks, etc.)

    Strategic resources are worth as much as 220 gold as well. If you don't have a pressing military need, sell your iron & horses. Just check with various AIs first, some won't pay anything, but the ones that need it (and are friendly) will give 220.
     
  16. PimpmyCiv

    PimpmyCiv Chieftain

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    Trading resources to the AI isn't nearly as important in Prince and below (heck I'd even say emperor and below). If one is playing prince and finding the AI can't afford resources, but are having gold problems, look to improve other tiles that provide direct gold first.

    I've never had money issues playing prince or below (but its been a while). I may not be able to buy everything I want, but I don't need to either. One should, with enough experience, be able to produce whatever they want without needing the AI's money.
     
  17. Kerosene31

    Kerosene31 Prince

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    Yeah you can definitely just be self sufficient on prince. Researching economics should be one of your priorities, then you can start spamming economic buildings.

    Then just keep your cities happy and growing and things should start ramping up. Before economics you tend to run into a little part where it is hard to make money but once you get past that things should start working well.

    Gold producing tiles should be a priority when settling as well. (Make sure you are actually working them).

    Keeping a close eye on maintenance is key. Be very careful what you build. Watch for outdated units dragging your maintenance costs up. That trireme you sent on auto explore years ago has been costing you money all this time. Keep your army up to date. Delete, gift or upgrade old units. I usually rush iron working and gunpowder so I always have updated units (econ in there as well depending on the threat of war).
     
  18. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

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    You guys are probably right, you should be able to be self-sufficient on Prince. It's certainly good advice to get the hang of managing your internal economy before moving up levels.

    But, I stand by my point. I distincly remember that (gold) aspect of the game becoming less of a priority when I moved up and found the AI had plenty of gold to give me. Not as a replacement for an internal economy, but definitely as a stop-gap when I needed something to carry me over, or for extra $$ for RAs/CSs.
     
  19. bronzeager

    bronzeager Chieftain

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    hmm, ive never had cash problems on prince. most other peoples' advice is good, but i'll add my 2 cents:

    -build cities near rivers whenever possible. each river tile is +1 gold

    -luxury resources can be sold to an AI for 300 gold if they are friendly. sell everything you have, as long as you are still in the positive for happiness. strategic resources can also be sold for 100 or more.

    -Market in every city, every city connected to capital with roads, stock exchange when it
    becomes available.

    -don't keep too many cities in production focus, as this usually causes less gold intake

    -puppet everything you conquer. these all become gold specialist cities.

    -don't build buildings that don't suit your victory path (culture buildings are usually the first I ignore, unless going for that victory)

    -make sure to put a work boat on every sea resource. these can produce a lot of gold.

    -don't waste gold on RAs that could be broken by war or to CSes that you can't keep at Ally level

    -use great merchants for trade missions rather than golden ages. 500-600 gold, plus about 500 gold worth of influence with that CS. Good deal, imo.
     
  20. Jim Bro

    Jim Bro Emperor of Quebec

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    i don't understand how someone could win a game on deity or immortal except playing with 4 civs on a tiny map lol the game is boring when too hard
     

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