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Privateer Availability

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Thedrin, May 29, 2007.

?

Should the option for privateers be temporary?

  1. Yes

    53 vote(s)
    41.7%
  2. No

    74 vote(s)
    58.3%
  1. Thedrin

    Thedrin Deity

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    With the upcoming iplementation of privateers, would you prefer privateers to be limited to a single naval era or would you rather see the option to attempt to engage in piracy extended to all (or most) naval eras?

    I'd vote no.

    As it is, there is barely any use for privateers. With the implementation of visible trade routes there will be a new use. But presumably visible trade routes will exist for the entire length of the game. I'd like the player to have the option to attack trade routes in secret for the entire length of the game.
     
  2. Onagan

    Onagan The Dutch

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  3. snipperrabbit!!

    snipperrabbit!! Deity

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    I like best a window of opportunity feature for privateers.
     
  4. ArneHD

    ArneHD Just a little bit mad

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    Personally I would like a privateer promotion, so that it would last through out the ages if you are carefull.
     
  5. Willowmound

    Willowmound Wordbug

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    I like this idea. Consider it seconed.
     
  6. scu98rkr

    scu98rkr Prince

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    I think I voted the wrong way. I only want limited piracy.

    I voted yes, but then I reread the question and thought it was phrased the other way, then I reread the question and thought it was phrased the other original way.

    Either way I your poll question isnt very clear.
     
  7. scu98rkr

    scu98rkr Prince

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    Actually just noticed the poll question at the top. thats clear enough, so I voted the right way. Its this bit I dont get

    "With the upcoming iplementation of privateers, would you prefer privateers to be limited to a single naval era or would you rather see the option to attempt to engage in piracy extended to all (or most) naval eras?"
     
  8. Quagga

    Quagga Former Dictator

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    Privateers were eliminated by agreements between nations -- essentially international law. Certainly there should be no privateers after the UN. Perhaps some other technology or wonder could invalidate them well prior to that late date.

    That said, privateers weren't a particular make/model of ship, but rather just a warship that was not owned by a government, but commissioned by a government. As such, one might think that any contemporary warship could be made into a privateer. Alas, the thought of a privateer aircraft carrier does strain this reasoning well past the breaking point.
     
  9. Martinus

    Martinus Emperor

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    I don't know how the ability to pillage ocean trade routes is implemented, but if it can be done irrespective of the ship's power, than I don't see a reason for privateers to be powerful, or able to take out a frigate.

    In real life, the purpose of privateers or pirates was not to engage enemy warships, but rather to hit undefended merchant ships and run away before the warships arrived on the scene.
     
  10. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    True, which is why I'd like to see them as a permanent feature (although they could possibly be banned by the UN) so that they can form more of an intergral part of economic warfare- at present, they seem to much like a temporary gimmick for someone who wants to play at being a pirate (which, I must confess, is fun). After all, there were pirates throughout history, including up until the present day.
     
  11. Monado

    Monado King

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    1907 at the Second Hague International Peace Conference it was agreed all war vessels must be under total control of an independent national government and commanded by an officer commissioned by the state.

    I agree with you here Martinus. I hope privateers have a base strength of 6 with a 50% bonus against galleons. This will allow them to destroy galleons, while still having to run from frigates.
     
  12. Monado

    Monado King

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    True piracy has occurred throughout history and continues today. Privateering, which we are discussing here, on the other hand is an obsolete method of naval warfare.

    Privateering was historically a "temporary gimmick" which has ceased when this means of economic warfare was found unnecessary and unjust.

    I think that privateers will be used much like they were in civ3 though, in which they will be obsoleted by the invention of destroyers. Which is not in reality, why privateering ended. I do not mind the idea of privateering being banned by the UN. A UN treaty, for gameplay reasons, could be used to simulate the Hague Conference.

    I do not want a Privateer upgrade though, because I find it unnecessary to have unmarked battleships and destroyers in the late game.
     
  13. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    My Ideal: Privateers and Partisans

    Privateer Trireme->Privateer Caravel->Privateer Galleon->Privateer Frigate->Privateer Destroyer

    They cost ~1/2 or 2/3 but they are a Barbarian unit that you control for 20-30 turns (you get sight, but pay no maintenance, get no gold from pillage and they can attack anyone..including your own units... they may only share a space with Barbarian units)

    Partisan Warrior->Axe->Sword->Mace->Grenadier->Infantry->SAM
    Partisan Horseman->Currasier->Cavalry
    Partisan Archer->Longbow->Musket->Rifle->Infantry

    Partisans would be similar, but if a Partisan unit took a city, both the city and the Partisan that took it would become yours. (also Partisans would stay under your control Longer ~40-50 turns)
    Also Partisans would spontaneously generate on any terrain square that has your culture, but is under someone else's control (rate of generation is based on your % of the culture)

    The UN or the AP could pass a "Freedom of the Seas" banning Privateer production and giving all naval units a +25% v. Barbarians.
    They could also pass a "Rules of War" that bans Partisan production (and immediately surrenders control of any spontaneously generated) and gives all ground units a +25% v. Barbarians.
     
  14. Thedrin

    Thedrin Deity

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    I'm looking at privateers as being - in terms of game play since historically acccurate privateers cannot be implemented in CivIV - the closest naval equivalent of espionage units; units that can perform aggressive acts without necessarily sparking a war. The major difference is that they would be visible and other civs could attack them without recieving diplomatic penalties.

    That's why I would like privateers to be available throughout the course of the game and why I am a proponent of a privateer promotion.

    May I suggest submarine instead of destroyer?
     
  15. Brutus2

    Brutus2 Prince

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    How about adding a new diplomatic resolution to the UN?

    Once the UN is built, the Secretary General could propose a resolution. Everyone in the game could vote on a ban on privateers in the same way the game currently has the nuclear weapon non-proliferation resoultion.
     
  16. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    True, but the real world never had nuclear war, either- Civ has it.
    My point being, the game should be about what's fun and interesting, not about creating a historical simulation. Adding privateers for the whole game, or at the very least allowing it for the Ancient to Industrial Eras, adds a new method of waging war. Anyway, there could be some sort of compromise- make the Privateer upgrade obsolete at Radar, or something like that.
     
  17. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Sounds good
     
  18. RogueFighter

    RogueFighter Chieftain

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    Can someone explain exactly how privateers will work. I don't really understand, will they be just units, or something else?
     
  19. marioflag

    marioflag History Addict

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    Privateer promotion would be a ridiculously overpowered promotion and introduce cheesy tactics which AI is not able to take advantage.
    Whoever wouldn't promote its ship with a privateer promotion instead of a small bonus to strenght?
    I wouldn't also like to see the ocean covered by "barbarian" ships just because of a promotion (this would be most likely in a multiplayer game).
    Privateers should definitely appear in exploration age and there shouldn't be pirate units in modern era;it would be a lot more realistic also because piracy today doesn't happen on the scale of some centuries ago.
     
  20. Soryn Arkayn

    Soryn Arkayn Prince

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    Privateering should be temporary, because it only existed between the 16th-19th centuries. It was basically nation-sponsored piracy during the high age of sail.

    I agree that it will have of limited use in the campaign game, because if you choose to research Chemistry instead of Astronomy, you go from Frigates directly to Ironclads by researching Steel; and in past Civ games Privateers have become available the same time as Frigates.

    I suppose that the introduction of visible sea trade routes will actually make the Privateer more useful, since it should be able to blockade these routes, even after Ironclads and Destroyers are invented.
     

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