[GS] Problems with Pillaging

[acluewithout]

I haven’t played GS yet, but have been following people here particularly @Victoria . So far, it looks like the pillaging buffs are a mess... worse than chop overflow which they just got rid off.

TBH, I think the buffs have really just crystalised the inherent problems with the pillaging mechanics.

Thoughts:

Pillaging. Pillaging is a good idea in principle. It provides a different reason to war beyond conquest, and creates some interesting tactical options. But it’s not working as intended.

Norway. Making pillaging scale doesn’t buff Norway. Yes, Norway is particularly good at Pillaging, but only in the early game. After that, really everyone can pillage just as well (particularly with Privateers). If Norway needs a buff, then they need a buff. Tweaking pillaging seemed like a good idea for them but on reflection is a bust.

Pillaging improvements. If you’re going to have pillaging, then you’re going to have pillaging improvements. But the way it works now is broken. Getting science and culture just from pillaging improvements is way too powerful, particularly when it scales. Pillaging improvements needs to only yield gold or faith and really shouldn’t scale.

Pillaging districts. This isn’t incentivised enough. You basically never pillage districts because it just hurts you when you capture a city. If pillaging improvements didn’t yield science or culture then that would help incentivise pillaging districts. Pillaging districts probably should scale too.

I’m glad FXS did look at pillaging again, and I had thought scaling it did make some sense. But this mechanic is just not doing what’s intended and needs another look. Hopefully something that’ll get picked up in the 30 day patch.

 

[Boyan_Sun]

Base science/culture yield from pillaging improvements is now 15, nerfed a little (before GS release it was 25).
Unfortunately the progress param is still 1000 (ten times when all tech/civic complete), and it grows with your progress, not with enemy's.

 

[Victoria]

What do you think @Boyan_Sun .. what’s the feeling on the Chinese forum?

 

[Boyan_Sun]

What do you think @Boyan_Sun .. what’s the feeling on the Chinese forum?

Now they are focusing on another bug (or feature): https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/is-chopping-overflow-overcorrected.642113/
Maybe it still needs more time to evaluate this problem. Someone won DV around T100 with Macedon. Another streamer won a T160 CV and a T230 SV, all peacefully with rarely pillage so no help to this topic.

Currently Magnus has a serious bug that -80% strategy resources can forever valid, no matter whether you move him away or not. It makes DV (Domination) very easy.

Edit: Most people in Chinese forums now found pillage too OP, and must be nerfed, or this game will be ruined.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Now they are focusing on another bug (or feature): https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/is-chopping-overflow-overcorrected.642113/
Maybe it still needs more time to evaluate this problem. Someone won DV around T100 with Macedon. Another streamer won a T160 CV and a T230 SV, all peacefully with rarely pillage so no help to this topic.

Currently Magnus has a serious bug that -80% strategy resources can forever valid, no matter whether you move him away or not. It makes DV very easy.

You're going to need a new abbreviation for Domination Victory now that GS also has Diplomatic Victory.

 

[acluewithout]

I’m guessing pillaging will get nerfed again. Probably with Anton saying “yeah, okay, you told us it was a bit much...”.

If they nerf pillaging, maybe they’ll then buff Norway more directly.

You know, given they’ve reduced the base yield for pillaging, and Norway does some of its best pillaging early, is there an argument Norway actually got nerfed by the pillaging changes.

 

[Boyan_Sun]

I think you can see this thread which gives a screen shot: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/from-a-chopper-game-to-a-pillager-game.642138/#post-15372527, which shows that pillage is really too powerful.
You know he is a Chinese too, that screen shot‘s time is Beijing time.
District pillage base yield is still 25, and can be pillaged N+1(N is building count in campus) times, which provide 75~100 base yield. That means, with double pillage card, it can provide maximum 2000 science from a single campus - remember, new future techs will only cost 2000 ~ 3000 science points.

 

[ExemplarVoss]

Pillaging does seem ridiculously good at this point. +115(ish) science and culture for burning a few thongs seems rather bizarre, but that's what happened in my brief medieval era war with England. That it also sets the AI back is just gravy.

Plus with the way grievances seem to work, at least in a defensive war, burning someone out and leaving them with nothing but ruined city or two maximizes a lot of benefit for you and creates almost no grievances with the rest of the world. And leaves them fairly defenseless against religious or cultural victories.

 

[pgm123]

I think you can see this thread which gives a screen shot: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/from-a-chopper-game-to-a-pillager-game.642138/#post-15372527, which shows that pillage is really too powerful.
You know he is a Chinese too, that screen shot‘s time is Beijing time.

I'm ok with making district pillaging really powerful. Districts are special. That's with the double card too.

Now, you do need to make the AI a bit more aggressive in defending their districts before they are pillaged. Or you can make buildings worth significantly less so you have to pillage down to the base district, leaving you for exposure.

Is Norway better now that pillaging is better or are their pillaging benefits not good enough?

 

[Boyan_Sun]

Is Norway better now that pillaging is better or are their pillaging benefits not good enough?

All melee navies of Norway can loot and have +50% production modifier, which gives them advantages. Privateers are too late and too expensive.
In this version, pillaging is too...o efficient, or say, imbalance. So I think Norway is good enough.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Not only is Pillaging OP right now but I seem to be able to Pillage twice move one tile and Pillage again!
3 Pillages in one turn for one unit
Raid Card anyone?

I went from 150 gold to over 2000 in a few pillages
In the same turn I went from 240 Faith to over 2000 Faith.

Makes me feel kinda dirty afterwards.

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

Privateers just became my favorite unit in the game now. Pillaging improvements is just way too strong now. I only pillage to harass so I just destroy everything I can get my units on, even districts.

 

[Troy Bruckner]

Pillaging was bad enough when it capped at 300 for gold and 150 for the others. Now the increase in strength based on the number of research advancements it's beyond insane. It was the year 1500 BC in a marathon game and I was pillaging gold for 2200 each animal resource and around 800 for culture and research. Faith was a little over 1K.