Progress and culture

[Matutin]

Might be a Noob question, but how do you stay culturally compatible when going progress/wide?
I have not played progress that much, and am astonished about 26 turns for a new policy-unlock. This is especially hard, when you get the -100 culture event almost every turn in one of your cities.

 

[IcyAngel]

Progress is best used with a source of early culture, either from your pantheon, luxuries or civilization unique.

I find you can do without these if you build a monument first or second in every city.

 

[CrazyG]

I think that your secondary cities need to produce either science or culture immediately. So use pantheons to get one of those, or a civs special ability. For example, England can just keep stealing techs, which produce culture, so you can go really wide while still advancing in both culture and science. Another example is Carthage's instant city connections and take the 3 science per city connection. Settle the city and build a monument first, it will already be positive in both science and culture.

Progress can be tough to play if your civ has no early game bonuses and your luxuries don't provide culture.

 

[Matutin]

With Haile as neighbor, my pantheon did not last long...

Meanwhile I'm 150 turns in, any tips for Medieval Development? After progress, I went Fielty for the happiness to culture conversion - bad idea?

 

[Deadstarre]

With Haile as neighbor, my pantheon did not last long...

a tip! next time play as Haile =) take progress, settle on forests and rush-buy steles so every satellite is pumping out yields on its 2nd turn.

 

[CrazyG]

With Haile as neighbor, my pantheon did not last long...

So hopefully you choose a pantheon with a good amount of culture, then smoothly get to transition into have a religion

Meanwhile I'm 150 turns in, any tips for Medieval Development? After progress, I went Fielty for the happiness to culture conversion - bad idea?

Progress-->Fealty is a great idea, but not for that particular reason. Fealty gives a lot of per city yields, and a big drop to boredom unhappiness which is a really big deal for larger empires.

 

[Matutin]

I chose the one for culture from plantations. Are there any better pantheons suited for this particular purpose?

 

[tu_79]

I chose the one for culture from plantations. Are there any better pantheons suited for this particular purpose?

It depends. Do you plan on founding your own religion or are you content with usurping one of your neighbours religion?

 

[Matutin]

Well, after meeting Haile as my neighbor, I immediately gave up on the plan of my own religion.

But normally, I try to go for it

 

[Owlbebach]

Meanwhile I'm 150 turns in, any tips for Medieval Development? After progress, I went Fielty for the happiness to culture conversion - bad idea?

That depends on what civ do you play and what are you trying to do. However, if we are speaking about maximum efficiency than Progress-->fealty is probably the only option, because if you want to go Statecraft - you go Authority first and aim DiploVictory, and if you want Artistry - you go Tradition first and aim Tourism Victory. In your particular case you should probably go for Astronomy (+2 science for scientists), than Acoustics (Sistine) than Public Schools and aim for SV

I chose the one for culture from plantations. Are there any better pantheons suited for this particular purpose?

Dunno. Theoretically it is good with progress. Basically it should look like - you go for Trade, than for Calendar, your build order in cities is Shrine 1st, Market 2nd, and you need couple of workers to improve your plantations for culture... Given the fact that Progress has some early science and a free worker - it might work out, but i have a gut feeling that you do not have enough hammers for it. Also you will have problems with culture, but you can fix it by taking Inspiration as your 1st follower. If you made it - you should be in great state, but it is a "high risk - high reward" strategy. Another choices for Progress are those that fix your culture and production, like God of All, or Craftsmen (not Earth Mother, its awful). Also Commerce is good for progress. Wisdom and Ancestor might work. Not sure about everything else.

Well, after meeting Haile as my neighbor, I immediately gave up on the plan of my own religion.

Actually it is not that bad to have him as a neighbour. Thing is that he will not spread to you, so you can spread to your neighbour. What is bad is when you have 2 neighbours with their own religions, 1 is okay.

 

[Matutin]

Haile did spread like a mad man... And my other neighbor is Isabella - that........

I think I screwed up my game, as I'm in basically permanent war, and I don't have even started on conquering capitals....
I'll see how far I can recover and wreck my filthy opponents

 

[Magean]

This thread perfectly fits the question I was about to ask... Do people build monument 1st (instead of shrine, which may end up 3rd after a warrior) when they plan to go Progress but have no possible source of culture from pantheon?

 

[Txurce]

This thread perfectly fits the question I was about to ask... Do people build monument 1st (instead of shrine, which may end up 3rd after a warrior) when they plan to go Progress but have no possible source of culture from pantheon?

I do. Some culture is key to a Progress start, and you still have a decent shot at a religion if you build 5 cities quickly and use workers to generate faith.

 

[Magean]

In fact, one of my main worries is that it's difficult to leverage Progress' opener if I don't open very early. Compare with Authority: you don't need Authority's opener before you have a couple warriors/archers to hunt barbs. And, when your squad is up and ready, you will have opened Authority anyway, even if you delayed your monument for a shrine (and maybe a warrior).

By contrast, you want to open Progress ASAP to get yields from the opener; if you wait a little too long, you may open just when your capital reaches the size (usually 4) where growth slows down noticeably in an infrastructure-lacking capital city. You will get some science for already existing population, but you would have preferred getting the instant yields on growth both for science and culture.

Actually, can it be optimal to slow growth down by focusing on production before opening Progress, for example when the capital hits size 2? This way, you may get both your monument and your shrine up earlier, as well as more yields from Progress' opener. The trade-off being that postponed citizens may have been put to good use.

 

[tu_79]

In fact, one of my main worries is that it's difficult to leverage Progress' opener if I don't open very early. Compare with Authority: you don't need Authority's opener before you have a couple warriors/archers to hunt barbs. And, when your squad is up and ready, you will have opened Authority anyway, even if you delayed your monument for a shrine (and maybe a warrior).

By contrast, you want to open Progress ASAP to get yields from the opener; if you wait a little too long, you may open just when your capital reaches the size (usually 4) where growth slows down noticeably in an infrastructure-lacking capital city. You will get some science for already existing population, but you would have preferred getting the instant yields on growth both for science and culture.

Actually, can it be optimal to slow growth down by focusing on production before opening Progress, for example when the capital hits size 2? This way, you may get both your monument and your shrine up earlier, as well as more yields from Progress' opener. The trade-off being that postponed citizens may have been put to good use.

Doesn't it give science for the already existing population too?

 

[Magean]

Doesn't it give science for the already existing population too?

It does but it gives 10 less beakers per pop than you would have got from growth. Also, you want the culture from techs ASAP (15 culture per tech don't really matter when you're in the late ancient / early classical era).

Speaking of which, how early do you build councils in secondary cities when you take progress? And in the capital?

 

[CrazyG]

It does but it gives 10 less beakers per pop than you would have got from growth. Also, you want the culture from techs ASAP (15 culture per tech don't really matter when you're in the late ancient / early classical era).

Speaking of which, how early do you build councils in secondary cities when you take progress? And in the capital?

Usually I take the policy that gives 10 food and culture for contructing a building as my 5th policy, and I don't build councils before that (maybe one somewhere)

 

[Galbias]

Same, my usual Progress(ion) is to take the policy for free/upgraded Workers, then Production/Gold in every city, then either the Food/Science depending on how my city connections or doing, and then the Food/Culture from Buildings policy. I don't feel like I have particular Culture problems when going Progress, usually less so than Authority anyways.

 

[Owlbebach]

IMO Progress is way behind other trees in culture. Authority has a lot less problems, you get a lot from camps

 

[black213]

I had my easiest Emperor Progress game as China - give that a shot perhaps?