Progress--->Authority

[chicorbeef]

Hey everyone, so I've heard of strategies involving going Authority--->Progress, such as going down the left side of Authority and then the left side of Progress, etc. and I have heard of people finishing Authority and then going Progress but one thing I don't hear often is going Progress then Authority.

I want to know what your opinions are on this? Authority actually has a lot of bonuses that can be useful alter on. Are the Culture/Science on kills and city capture, as well as the free units, finisher, and Heal on Kill worth the infrastructure hit you'd take compared to going Fealty?

I tried it once but didn't get far enough into the game to judge if it was worth it. Heal on Kill was very nice though, as well as Science on city capture.

 

[Stalker0]

I could see a situation where you focus on the right side of Authority if your going "total war". I don't know if this would be an initial planned strategy, but if you started progress and decided that a hard strong war was needed to get back in the game, Authority would give you more gas than any of the Tier 2 trees.

 

[chicorbeef]

I wonder if Japan would be a good civ for going Tradition tall early on, then going Authority so you can meat-grind with Samurai and Faith-purchase generals later in order to shoot for a Culture Victory while killing your opponents. Authority also looks like it would do a decent job at fixing Tradition's production issues.

 

[tu_79]

I'm playing an Emperor Denmark right now, and trying Progress -> Authority. I don't feel bad since I did not found any religion, and I really needed the extra punch.

 

[CrazyG]

When you say progress-->authority, do you mean taking 6 progress policies, then 6 authority? Or like 3 of each? I'm interested in experimenting with combining social policies and would like to hear other player's experiences.

 

[Owlbebach]

I had experemented with 3 Authority (different options) + 3 Progress (left). That can work if you know how to fix your happiness. That was long time ago (more than a year) and it might actually be better nowdays cause happiness is much easier after Crime was changed to Distress. However i still think that it is a bad choice in 95% games.

Speaking of 6 Authority after 6 Progress - i am 100% sure that it is awful in every game possible. I just can't imagine a situation where it does work. In fact i can't imagine a situation where any combination of 2 ancient policy trees isn't awful.

 

[Stalker0]

IIn fact i can't imagine a situation where any combination of 2 ancient policy trees isn't awful.

I would likely agree with this. Now I can definately see a Full Progress -> Authority strat if you need to focus on heavy war, as none of the Medieval trees give combat bonuses. But I would take the right side of Authority for that, and then probably sprinkle through the 3 openers of the medieval trees (which are all good). That would be stronger than completing authority at that point to me.

 

[Owlbebach]

I would likely agree with this. Now I can definately see a Full Progress -> Authority strat if you need to focus on heavy war, as none of the Medieval trees give combat bonuses. But I would take the right side of Authority for that, and then probably sprinkle through the 3 openers of the medieval trees (which are all good). That would be stronger than completing authority at that point to me.

I am sure that is a wrong move too. Finishers of all 3 medeival trees are way to strong to not get.
Also,

Now I can definately see a Full Progress -> Authority strat if you need to focus on heavy war

question is - how the hell did you get into such a situation?

I mean if you need to defend - you'll do okay with Fealty for sure. And if you suddenly decide to focus on war so heavily that you need that heal-on-kill so much then this just means you screwed up before that

 

[tu_79]

When you say progress-->authority, do you mean taking 6 progress policies, then 6 authority? Or like 3 of each? I'm interested in experimenting with combining social policies and would like to hear other player's experiences.

I completed Progress, then completed Authority and get to build Alhambra. Now into imperialism. Morocco is proving a hard bone to bite, and India is in another continent, but it feels like I can override them all.

Edit. Did so because no AI went Authority, I checked it in advance.

 

[Stalker0]

I am sure that is a wrong move too. Finishers of all 3 medeival trees are way to strong to not get.

The Renaissance Trees also have good finishers. The idea was that going Progress 6 Authority 3 and then the 3 openers would open up the Renaissance Trees, and then you would push heavily into that one.

Again, I don't see this as a default strategy, more a reactionary one. The plan was Progress, but something happened in the game that you think strong warring is needed to fix.

 

[Enginseer]

Progress + Authority used to be a default strategy when medieval policy trees were kinda bad. Fealty required a religion to take good advantages of it. Statecraft required you to do more diplomacy micro. While Artistry(Aesthetics) just became the establishment's policy tree. If you weren't established, interested in diplomacy, or had a religion. The only path was Progress/Authority after completing the latter. If you chose Authority later, you had +1 Production and great military boosts to expand upon. If you chose Progress later, you had great infrastructure fixes (+3 Food/+3 Science, +2 Gold/+2 Production) that the Medival tree didn't have the fix for yet.

There were also recalls that the AI was going Progress+Authority because Fealty, Statecraft, Artistry just wasn't likable enough.

In the current patch though, you would like +1 Science,+2 GAP/+1 Gold/+1 Food,+3 Defense in each of your cities per Policy selection now.

 

[chicorbeef]

When you say progress-->authority, do you mean taking 6 progress policies, then 6 authority? Or like 3 of each? I'm interested in experimenting with combining social policies and would like to hear other player's experiences.

My original question was about 6 Progress--->6 Authority.

I am sure that is a wrong move too. Finishers of all 3 medeival trees are way to strong to not get.
Also,

question is - how the hell did you get into such a situation?

I mean if you need to defend - you'll do okay with Fealty for sure. And if you suddenly decide to focus on war so heavily that you need that heal-on-kill so much then this just means you screwed up before that

I have only done this once, but the situation I was in was playing as Spain, no chance for early war, so went Progress, dipped into Fealty (Nobility), then went into Authority to get Science/Culture off city conquest and heal-on-kill (this was before conscripts were revamped, now I think it would be better to go down right side). I thought it was surprisingly okay.

I could see myself going Progress as Denmark, like what tu_79 did, my strategy would be yo rush Sailing--->Metal Casting, and then go ham.

Are the Medieval finishers all even that good? Fealty's finisher always felt underwhelming to me.

Edit. Did so because no AI went Authority, I checked it in advance.

Another reason. Alhambra is powerful.

 

[neo_arcadia]

My original question was about 6 Progress--->6 Authority.

Are the Medieval finishers all even that good? Fealty's finisher always felt underwhelming to me.

Boy, I LOVE Artistry finisher. Of all three, the weakest is Fealty (but as a whole, Fealty is super useful for wide empire), followed by Statecraft and Artistry.

 

[Owlbebach]

Are the Medieval finishers all even that good? Fealty's finisher always felt underwhelming to me.

Fealty's finisher is not that awesome, but Fealty's policies are on average stronger. Hell take a look at Monasteries, they are just always worth taking.

Another reason. Alhambra is powerful.

But can you get it with Authority taked 2nd? I can barely take it when taking Authority 1st

 

[tu_79]

Fealty's finisher is not that awesome, but Fealty's policies are on average stronger. Hell take a look at Monasteries, they are just always worth taking.

But can you get it with Authority taked 2nd? I can barely take it when taking Authority 1st

Yes, when no other civ went authority, it is sure thing.

 

[kawyua]

I'd like to reopen this thread - I think dipping into trees are super good and would also like to hear some opinions on the matter.
Although, this is a progress->tradition idea, I'm really want to keep an open mind to authority and getting that sweet tribute policy. That policy makes me salivate... ah man. I used to go left side of progress and then a mix in authority policies, but I don't think it is as good now that tradition is so much easier to open.
Mixing starting policies is a really valid idea when the policy finishers are kind of not that strong early in the game (okay they are pretty good, but still)

With the change that granted tradition 2 pop on opener and a crazy 1 per2, I'm been experimenting:
progress opener ->
tradition opener ->
sovereignty(because 3per turn is nearly necessary when going for religion with a nonreligious civ although policy might still be necessary) ->
left side of progress ->
justice
It is working quite well for me. progress and tradition opener gives so much early culture that you can get to a third policy before settling even the first city which is great. This is assuming that the trick is done where most of the early game techs are left unfinished and then completed once progress after opened to get from techs.
The main idea of this is early and from progress open to get early tiles works hand in hand to be ready for settler spam. Another really important point of this strategy is to get 4 policies as soon as possible in order to have the best chance at completing terracotta or hanging gardens by turn ~80 (standard).

Afterwards, there would be some mix of 3-4 medieval policy with the completion of the tradition tree. Probably will be completing tradition first unless stuff like burghers are really good because tradition is just better than most of the medieval policies at this point.

 

[neo_arcadia]

So, before you enter medieval era and able to pick one medieval policy you will be having 3 Tradition and 3 Progress right? You prefer to complete Tradition rather than choosing any Medieval policy because you think at that point Tradition is just better than most of them even though Medieval policy scaler are something very good by itself? You are trying to get a shot at some Classical wonder by mixing policies hoping to get faster 4 policies while also choosing progress?

You know what, I want you to try it. The idea is totally radical to me and I really want to know the result. I hope you don't view my comment as a sarcasm because it is not. I am serious in knowing the result of your game. Especially about managing happiness and how many city you are going to settle. I want you to pull this strategy off.

This is very rad lol.

 

[kawyua]

So, before you enter medieval era and able to pick one medieval policy you will be having 3 Tradition and 3 Progress right? You prefer to complete Tradition rather than choosing any Medieval policy because you think at that point Tradition is just better than most of them even though Medieval policy scaler are something very good by itself?

Yes. Exactly. The point of going down left side of progress is to get expertise because expertise is amazing. Rest of progress is meh. Tradition scalar is pretty close to medieval scalars as 5% growth is ~ in every city and a in capital.
To be clear, I've been playing the huns and this is the strategy that I feel like best lines up for them. They just want to have a lot of working as many tiles as possible. So, they have to be quite wide. Oh, the huns never really have happiness problems, but there would have to be some compensation I'd suppose for others. I'd think this is a fairly coherent strategy for most civs to pull off, but it really depends on a lot. There needs to a very good tempo reason for mixing policies and missing a finisher.

 

[CrazyG]

I really want to try mixing up social policies as well.

I tried really hard to make opening progress followed by tradition work. I just felt like straight tradition would have been better though, getting justice earlier just felt better than having an extra tech and the tradition finisher is excellent. I don't like the idea of giving up university of sankore.

 

[kawyua]

Maybe every other civ won't pick tradition like the game I'm in =P lol. yeah giving up on sankore feels pretty terrible and it is not something to be understated. I think going for hanging gardens or terracotta without some boost from progress delays the wonders a couple more turns then I feel comfortable with, so maybe there is that going for it. Still, its not that hard to figure out if I'm clear to be able to take terra or hanging when going only tradition.