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Promise Expiration

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by DuncanIdahoTPF, Jul 28, 2020.

  1. DuncanIdahoTPF

    DuncanIdahoTPF Chieftain

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    How many turns does it take (or where in the interface) do I check to see when a promise no longer holds sway?

    For example. Scythia asked me to stop converting their cities, and I refused to make a promise. I keep accumulating 25 grievances if I use a charge on a missionary / apostle. I scoured the interface, but couldn't find how many turns left until this promise ended. I scoured Google and the only answer I could find was '15 turns.' I waited well over 15 turns (21 turns), and yet I still receive grievances when I try to convert their cities.
     

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  2. JJOne

    JJOne Prince

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    It doesn't have anything to do with the promise, since you refused to make it. They are simply getting annoyed you keep converting their cities. They would have gotten even more annoyed if you made and broke the promise.
    For promises you make you get an in game notification when it expires.
     
  3. DuncanIdahoTPF

    DuncanIdahoTPF Chieftain

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    So in another 100 turns if I try to convert one of their cities, I will get 25 grievances? That doesn't sound right to me.
     
  4. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    What if the roles were switched, then?
    You've founded a nice religion and configured it to your liking, and then Scythia barges in with their apostles and starts converting your cities. You ask them to stop, they reply no, ours is so much better, you just wait and see, and they continue to eradicate your religion. How would you react? Shrug it off?
     
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  5. DuncanIdahoTPF

    DuncanIdahoTPF Chieftain

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    I appreciate you trying to help, but I think you guys likely don't know the answer and are answering anyways. In other games I have seen a message like "blah blah blah no longer holds sway" that has the same promise icon in the notification log that I'm fairly certain was the answer to this situation.

    If you can find some concrete documentation that says something like "when you refuse to promise, you gain grievances for the remainder of the game," then I would accept that. But as it stands, the interface doesn't warn you that refusing to promise is for the rest of the game, and the interface does not indicate how many turns left you have until a promise expires (if you accept it).
     
  6. Linklite

    Linklite Warlord

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    I'm not sure what you're actually asking, it seems to have changed.

    I think it worth pointing out:
    • Converting their cities against their desire will generate grievances. This will happen even if you never promised to stop or if you did. The AI generally doesn't like it when you convert their cities (there are exceptions, eg Kongo, who love it and get mad at you if you don't, but as a rule thumb, it upsets the AI).
    • You didn't promise anything, so there is no expiration on your lack of promise.
    • Had you promised to stop converting cities, the grievances would have been worse again.
    • Promises made last 15 turns.
    • You'll cause 100 grievances for the first infraction, then 25 if you repeat it.
    • Grievances don't last for the rest of the game, they decay over time. How fast depends on your era, whether you are at war, etc.
    You can read these articles to learn more, if you wish:
    Grievances: https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Grievances_(Civ6)
    Promises and diplomacy in general:
    https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Diplomacy_(Civ6)
     
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  7. nzcamel

    nzcamel Nahtanoj the Magnificent

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    Having won quite a few religious victories, I can confirm the game has always worked this way. Once leader X asks you to stop converting their cities any further conversion of their cities will gain grievances, for the rest of the game.
     
  8. Galvatron

    Galvatron Warlord

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    That's not true. The game counts you as having made a promise regardless. The only difference is the amount of grievances

    The duration is 30 turns.
     
  9. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    Yes, the interface does not indicate that, as it does not tell you or just plainly misleads you about great many of other things. Honestly, it is the worst UI in the entire franchise and one of the worst among all other strategy games.

    To get back to the conversion business though, you can convert civs that have not founded their own religion without any penalties. Kongo is a special case in that they can't found a religion, but they can get apostles of other religions that have been spread to them and they can and will attack your religious units and can kill them, if you're not careful, reducing or removing the presence of your religion in his lands, and that will piss him off. You see - he attacks your missionaries and is also upset that you fail to spread your religion to him and satisfy his agenda. The man's crazy as a bat :)

    If a civ has founded a religion, it will not like the spread of other religions, and you will generate grievances promise or no promise, only some amounts will differ. If you convert and accumulate grievances faster than they decay, eventually you'll get denounced. Other civs will also see that you cause grievances and start showing negative diplo modifiers against you because of that (caused grievances to others), leading to even more denunciations. You may even face a dog-pile war against you in the end.

    Negative diplo situation can be mitigated though or even negated. Become friends with the world before you begin. Achieve as much Declarations of Friendship as you can and start converting. You will still pick up huge amounts of grievances, which will convert into huge negative diplo modifiers, but once locked into a friendship, this status does not change for entire length of 30 turns. Just don't let them off and renew all DoFs upon expiry, on the same turn. They will agree despite ovewhelming red negative diplo modifiers. Miss a turn and you may be in trouble. But while friends or even allies (except religious allies), you can continue to convert them in peace, ignoring all the grievances.
     
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  10. JJOne

    JJOne Prince

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    Don't know about the duration, but the rest is right, and I was wrong before. It is tied to asking for promise. If they don't ask you to stop spreading religion, they don't get grievances. Current game: Rome had its own religion in Angkor Thom. Since they have a foreign capital and no city states they stay on zero favor. So couldn't protest me converting him, and didn't get any grievances for that either.
     
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  11. Galvatron

    Galvatron Warlord

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    Yes, with the notable caveat that they'll still be mad at you for doing it. :p
     
  12. JJOne

    JJOne Prince

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    In this case with Rome: -9 We converted their religious city, but +13 Respects empires with a lot of land. :p
     
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  13. Galvatron

    Galvatron Warlord

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    Good sportsmanship seems to be a Roman trait
     
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  14. DuncanIdahoTPF

    DuncanIdahoTPF Chieftain

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    I started a new game, and now that I'm more tuned into this, I found a partial answer. Aquitaine asked me to stop converting them and I agreed to the promise. I left them alone for a long time (not sure how many turns), and I got a message that the promise was fulfilled. I started converting her cities again, and I'm not getting an grievances at all.
     
  15. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Indeed it is, at least it was when I checked it out a while ago. It shows in the log file diplomaticmodifiers.csv. This also shows the diplomatic negative for converting their city degrading then becoming positive for keeping the promise.
    Of course, not keeping the promise or not agreeing to promise is different

    grievances are when there is a promise involved. They would not have asked for a promise in your second game so no grievances. There would have been diplomatic negatives though.

    I have never looked to the end of city conversions, where once they are of your religion perhaps these stop. I could if you wanted to, it is not difficult following the log file if you have excel and can use a filter.
     

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