Promotions

[Riflin'Joe]

2 questions:

1) Does anyone use the following promotions, which I never do: charge, march, commando, blitz (not counting those units which start with them)?

2) What are the possible uses of drill vs. combat? e.g. for units like rifles and infantry.

 

[Mylene]

Charge - almost never
March - if the super medic has points left
Commando - is good for a few units that want to cap nuked cities
Blitz - ok for Gunships and ships, but doesn't happen very often

 

[vranasm]

Drill IV is actually fairly decent and for example with Oromo Warrior's it's good to use imo.

But I generally use more combat then drill.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

charge is the one vs seige weapons? I have used it... generally, by accident.

If collateral damage worked differently, it might be useful, but it's isn't, so it's really not. It's probably useful if you are up against a lot of machine guns, though.

 

[Choeimok]

Does Charge increase flanking damage?

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

Blitz - ok for Gunships and ships, but doesn't happen very often

Blitzocopten are fun, but I'm not sure they are actually useful. Multiple attacks per round are fine if you have a significant strength edge, but when the outcome is still in doubt you don't want to be attacking at less than full strength.

Good for a won position that you want to resolve as quickly as possible.

 

[Noogai]

Blitzocopten are fun, but I'm not sure they are actually useful. Multiple attacks per round are fine if you have a significant strength edge, but when the outcome is still in doubt you don't want to be attacking at less than full strength.

Good for a won position that you want to resolve as quickly as possible.

Their are nice if you have small, but highly promoted army so that otherwise you wouldn't have enough units to finish of weakened enemy stack.

 

[coanda]

I've used March a fair amount when I have a significant edge in military technology to speed up wars.

Commando is crippled by the need to usually keep your offensive forces concentrated in a SoD if you don't want them picked off one by one - and because it takes so much experience first, any unit which could get that promotion is hard to replace. That said, once you start using nukes it is hands-down the best promotion in the game.

 

[nfw]

Blitzcopter might be useful if you want to paradrop into a city but it's guarded by multiple executives and missionaries.

 

[FlyingSwan]

2) What are the possible uses of drill vs. combat? e.g. for units like rifles and infantry.

Going down the drill line can be usefull if you expect to face alot of mounted troops,Drill IV gives you +10% against them.Typically I go down that route if Im using Oromos or Samurai and then upgrade to Rifles.The extra first strikes are also usefull when attacking citys as it negates archers/longbows first strikes.
The -20% collateral is also usefull against enemy seige retaliation.Having said that Drill isnt great till the 3rd and 4th promotion so I tend to go down that route if im PRO,an AGG civ is probably better going down the combat route.In Japans case a mix is good.

 

[Ghpstage]

Going down the drill line can be usefull if you expect to face alot of mounted troops,Drill IV gives you +10% against them.

Drill is absolutely horrible against mounted as the majority of mounted units ignore first strikes. That +10% is only equal to combat 1, and thats after getting 4 promos..... your much better off going for combat and formation if your fighting mounted!

Where Drill really shine is for mop up troops, losing less health while taking weakened units outs and gaining higher than normal XP for doing so is very useful.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

What are the possible uses of drill vs. combat? e.g. for units like rifles and infantry.

There are lots of discussions on this topic - I don't think there's anything definitive, but enough information in Strategy and Tips that you can form your own opinion.

That said...

The primary motivation for first strikes is maintaining a set performance level - in other words, continuing to do well in combat even though you haven't had an opportunity to heal.

The two circumstances where this is most important are defense - where you may be on the receiving end of several attacks on the same turn - and when you are capturing territory, and need to move quickly to the next target.

Classic example of the first - archers defending against the hoards in a Deity/Always War/Raging Barbs/Pangaea doomfest. Another - using a defensive piece to hold a bottleneck. In both cases, you are worried less about beating one strong piece than many average ones.


For the second example, you're generally looking at trying to capture cities quickly. Disposable siege units are weakening garrisons, and then you want the stack pieces to kill without taking damage, so that you aren't weakening your force leaving pieces behind to heal.

In other words, you are using the first strikes as a poor man's version of March. So the right comparison, if somebody want to run the numbers, might be Drill IV vs Combat III + March.

 

[FlyingSwan]

Drill is absolutely horrible against mounted as the majority of mounted units ignore first strikes. That +10% is only equal to combat 1, and thats after getting 4 promos..... your much better off going for combat and formation if your fighting mounted!

Where Drill really shine is for mop up troops, losing less health while taking weakened units outs and gaining higher than normal XP for doing so is very useful.

Yep,I agree,but I assumed that if the OP is talking about rifles/infantry then he,ll be facing cavalry which arnt immune to first strikes.Also when you get drill II you have the option of taking formation as the next promo.Which is why I said its a good line to go down if your PRO-start with drillI or if your upgrading Oromos or Samurai for example.

 

[FlyingSwan]

Would anyone know what the odds are for a cavalry unit attacking and being attacked by a rifleman in open ground?One with DrillIV and one with combatIV,then one with DrillII/formation and one with combatII/formation.

Is there a way in Worldbuilder to test these things?Im not sure how you would work out the maths for 1st strikes otherwise.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

You should be able to set it up in WB, just by placing units with the given promos.

I don't know what it is, but the cav should probably lose most of those, having best odds vs the Drill promos (as cavs are immune to 1st strikes) and worst (probably) vs. combat III/formation. Might be combat IV, dunno.

 

[coanda]

Would anyone know what the odds are for a cavalry unit attacking and being attacked by a rifleman in open ground?One with DrillIV and one with combatIV,then one with DrillII/formation and one with combatII/formation.

Is there a way in Worldbuilder to test these things?Im not sure how you would work out the maths for 1st strikes otherwise.

(a) It's easy to set up with WB.
(b) The formula is known; if you just search for "civ4 combat odds calculator" you'll probably find several online calculators people made which will tell you what the odds are (often in even more detail than you get in-game, such as how much damage you are likely to take).

 

[CaF]

2 questions:

1) Does anyone use the following promotions, which I never do: charge, march, commando, blitz (not counting those units which start with them)?

I don't even know what charge is, so i guess i never use it. I don't understand march, so I don't use it either. I guess it only heals the march unit and not the whole stack while moving, so I ignore it mostly. Commando and Blitz are pretty late and i have no experience with them. I usually do Combat/Pinch on land units and Drill for ships.

2) What are the possible uses of drill vs. combat? e.g. for units like rifles and infantry.

I usually do Combat/Pinch on land units. If defending and I got the balls, I use Drill instead of City Garrison. I'm always angry when I push out at some point and all I have is a bunch of guys with City Garrison a.k.a. useless promotion. If I have tons of siege and a low hard unit count, then I sometimes go for Drill to avoid damage. Happens often as I overbuild in general.

I always use Drill and Navigation over combat for ships, since you cannot win ship battles anyways, might as well deal guaranteed damage or move faster. The coastal defense bonus (One of the reasons why barb galleys are a joke.) and the fact that every AI ship is at least combat 2 for some reason just makes navy battles a total crapshoot.
I always use Drill on Privateers when using them, which is when the AI only has Caravels, no Chemistry and Astro yet. You get like 0 damage and a Medic 1 unit is enough to heal up. You get multiple West Pointers in no time.

Drill is strong when you are ahead in tech and first strike immunity is not fielded. I think there was some Monarch Student game with Mao around 1 month ago where Chu-Ko-Nus were super strong on Shaka because he had no horses. This lead to tons of melee units on his part. A combination of Drill Chus + Combat Elephants + Catapults just trashed all he had with ease. Could have left out the Elephants but they come with the Catapult tech and jumbos were present. Might as well add some.

 

[FlyingSwan]

(a) It's easy to set up with WB.
(b) The formula is known; if you just search for "civ4 combat odds calculator" you'll probably find several online calculators people made which will tell you what the odds are (often in even more detail than you get in-game, such as how much damage you are likely to take).

Cheers Coanda,gonna have a nice few hours experimenting with that.I virtually never go into worldbuilder,and when I do I seem to spam lions everywhere when I move the cursor(sensative D-pad).

 

[ColossusXXIII]

charge is the one vs seige weapons? I have used it... generally, by accident.

If collateral damage worked differently, it might be useful, but it's isn't, so it's really not. It's probably useful if you are up against a lot of machine guns, though.

If I'm facing an enemy who gets early artillery, and my cavalry can no longer keep their siege at bay, I will then start giving out that anti siege promo "charge". same thing if the enemy spams machine guns. It's also very useful for gunships later in the modern era, if the game ever gets that far.

 

[vicawoo]

March is heavily underrated, especially for aggressive leaders, as long as you have enough nutcrackers.

They get the 10% neutral heal while moving. If you have a medic or medic 3, they basically be full hp by the time you get to your destination.