Proofs that God is imaginary

[eastsidebagel]

I stole the content of this thread mainly from this site:

http://godisimaginary.com/

Here are my personal Top 3 points which are supposed to give every sincere Christian a headache:

Dear God, almighty, all-powerful, all-loving creator of the universe, we pray to you to cure every case of cancer on this planet tonight. We pray in faith, knowing you will bless us as you describe in Matthew 7:7, Matthew 17:20, Matthew 21:21, Mark 11:24, John 14:12-14, Matthew 18:19 and James 5:15-16. In Jesus' name we pray, Amen.

We pray sincerely, knowing that when God answers this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer, it will glorify God and help millions of people in remarkable ways.

Will anything happen? No. Of course not.

How can you excuse this?

Why, when you read the Bible, are you not left in awe? For example, look though this small collection of Bible verses:

* Deut 25:11-12
* Genesis 38:8-10
* Deut 21:18-21
* Ex 35:2
* Lev 20:13
* Isaiah 13:13-16
* Exodus 21:20-21
* 1 Tim 2:11-12
* Col 3:22-23
* Luke 14:26
* Deut 22:13-21
* Isaiah 40:8

These verses feel like utter nonsense, don't they? We can find thousands of verses like these in the Bible.

Those verses are IMO pure gold for every raging Atheist who tries to accumulate ammunation for his disputes with Christians.

Have you ever taken the time to read the Bible's story of Noah's flood? And have you ever pondered what this story's position in the Bible might actually mean? While there are many people who consider the Bible, and therefore Noah's story, to be literally true, most educated and intelligent people understand that the story of Noah's flood is a myth. They understand that Mt. Everest was never covered in flood water, they understand that the ark could not hold the millions of species that are now found on earth, and they understand that there is no DNA evidence to show that all animals on earth came from single breeding pairs just a few thousand years ago.

But there is one part of the story of Noah's Ark that deserves special recognition. It shows us something about God that is quite unsettling to any intelligent person who takes the time to consider his actions. That special section is this:

God senselessly murdered millions of humans and billions of animals in the flood

How do we know it was senseless? Because "God" is supposed to be "all-knowing" and "all-powerful." If God were to exist, God would know what was coming when he created Adam and Eve. Therefore, God knew he would be murdering millions of people.

This realization leads to an obvious question: Why didn't God simply speed up Jesus' arrival to avoid the atrocity that is the flood? Or why didn't God program Adam and Eve when he created them to completely circumvent the need for such a horrendous atrocity?

You may have never considered this question, but it is exquisitely important. Because the flood is an atrocity of the highest order. It is mass murder on a global scale.

After reading this, how will you defend your belief?

Disclaimer: Why am I making this thread? It's not about trolling, but it is simple curiosity on my side to hear what some of our Christian posters think about this stuff which I copied.

 

[Camikaze]

Well, if you were to ask me, and for largely these reasons, the Bible isn't all it's cracked up to be. It is merely a collection of texts written by various authors over a very large period of time, with very mixed motives.

So, I would not try and refute these arguments too much. I would say that religion is an attempt to explain the unknown, and in doing this, some flaws have been made. Or something like that.

 

[Flying Pig]

I'm not sure that you're going to get far by telling Christians that they are idiots, but the argument of Epicurius is the best, still:

• 'God' is omnipotent
• 'God' is Good, and wants to make people have as good lives as possible
• Evil exists
• If God is able to defeat evil, but does not, then he is not good, and therefore is not God, and therefore God does not exist
• If God wants to remove evil, then he cannot, and is therefore not omnipotent and therefore does not fit with the definiton of God and therefore - God does not exist

 

[Thorbal]

I'm not sure that you're going to get far by telling Christians that they are idiots, but the argument of Epicurius is the best, still:

• 'God' is Good, and wants to make people have as good lives as possible

I don´t think that this is a very good argument. Why should the "goodness" of God equal having people live a good life (what we define as one)? I´d say it could very well be the opposite. Perhaps humanity needs a few catastrophes every now and then ? The whole line of conclusions hinges on the definition of "good".

___

Anyway, I don´t see a problem regarding the OP. I don´t take the Bible literally, problem solved . It´s a very interesting collection of anecdotes etc, not a history book.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

this completely heartfelt, unselfish, non-materialistic prayer

Somehow I doubt that.

These verses feel like utter nonsense, don't they?

The first one I looked at was an imperative instruction, not an argument or a claim, which is the wrong category to be nonsense. So was the second one.

Those verses are IMO pure gold for every raging Atheist who tries to accumulate ammunation for his disputes with Christians.

I think I'll wait until you stop raging and can be reasonable, then. The rest of the material is of similar atrocious quality. Try harder next time, preferably with something non-trollish enough that you don't feel like you have to add the "not a troll but" disclaimer. At present this feels like a Fox News attack piece.

 

[Flying Pig]

I don´t think that this is a very good argument. Why should the "goodness" of God equal having people live a good life (what we define as one)? I´d say it could very well be the opposite. Perhaps humanity needs a few catastrophes every now and then ? The whole line of conclusions hinges on the definition of "good".

___

Anyway, I don´t see a problem regarding the OP. I don´t take the Bible literally, problem solved . It´s a very interesting collection of anecdotes etc, not a history book.

Innocent people suffer. If God is just, he does not want innocent people to suffer. By definition, God is just.

 

[Thorbal]

Innocent people suffer. If God is just, he does not want innocent people to suffer. By definition, God is just.

There are no innocent people .

But isn´t that still a projection of our values? Think of the Old Testament, Hiob etc. That guy suffered a lot as well!
And (I´m certainly no expert in bible interpretation) is justice not something which will be taken care of after your earthly life, not during? Isn´t "heaven" a "reward" for being a stalwart christian in the face of all the suffering and temptations?

 

[bhsup]

The actions caused by humans can cause other humans to suffer. The reasons humans can take those actions is because of free will. God loves us so much, he has given us free will, but that doesn't mean he approves of every action we take. Pain and suffering exist because of us, not because of God.

 

[eastsidebagel]

Try harder next time, preferably with something non-trollish enough that you don't feel like you have to add the "not a troll but" disclaimer. At present this feels like a Fox News attack piece.

For my defense, I added this disclaimer for anybody foolish enough to believe that I'm trying to bash Christianity in general. All I wanted was to get some arguments for the sake of this faith from those people in here who actually believe the Bible word by word.

The actions caused by humans can cause other humans to suffer. The reasons humans can take those actions is because of free will. God loves us so much, he has given us free will, but that doesn't mean he approves of every action we take. Pain and suffering exist because of us, not because of God.

As I said in the last thread, free will according to Christians is like a poor illusion, for we still suffer for a mistake which our oldest ancestor (Eve) has done before thousands of years, but yet, we still must feel guilty about that and have to seek for a celestial redemption which will help us out of our misery.
But if we fail in our considerably shortened life span to find and to recognize this admittedly very disguised, true belief, we will get punished in any case. So if our free will is only capable of choosing between eternal life and eternal, complete misery, but exactly this that choice is very hard to realize and to grasp, then I dare to call God, who established and encourages all those tenets, to be bigoted and sadistic. If it's within his power to save everyone of us, why does he have to make it then so hard to see? Wouldn't a truly loving being get rid off all those rules and just make it totally obvious for every person that he alone ascertains true salvation?

 

[El_Machinae]

What I find neat about the "these arguments will cause headaches!" statements is that they very clearly don't cause headaches. It just shows the communication divide, and the logic divide. There are obviously very different axioms being used.

 

[Azale]

Whoah, excepts from a site called godisimaginary.com, you're breaking new ground here. I except the Pope's resignation by noon at least.

 

[Phlegmak]

I think the primary problems with the god creature that humans believe in are:

He's absolutely good.
He's perfect.

Once you quit believing those, then some god space-alien creature can actually make sense. With those two things above I pointed out, the god creature that people believe in makes utterly no sense whatsoever.

 

[kulade]

This thread will undoubtedly change everyone's mind.

 

[eastsidebagel]

What I find neat about the "these arguments will cause headaches!" statements is that they very clearly don't cause headaches. It just shows the communication divide, and the logic divide. There are obviously very different axioms being used.

Hey, I just looked for a cool catch line and I found this one as the most approbiate one...

Whoah, excepts from a site called godisimaginary.com, you're breaking new ground here. I except the Pope's resignation by noon at least.

He gave me already a call about this and told me about his concern!

I think the primary problems with the god creature that humans believe in are:

He's absolutely good.
He's perfect.

Once you quit believing those, then some god space-alien creature can actually make sense. With those two things above I pointed out, the god creature that people believe in makes utterly no sense whatsoever.

The boldened part still doesn't make sense if you believe the reports of the Bible. And it would certainly contradict with the traditional lores of the Christians too, if God wasn't like an all-seeing, all-knowing spiritistic being in Genesis which created all the universe from scratch, but instead a technologically advanced, yet mortal and imperfect creature like an alien from outta space.

 

[El_Machinae]

Nothing in the Bible conflicts with the theory that god is a space alien who lies.

 

[Phlegmak]

The boldened part still doesn't make sense if you believe the reports of the Bible. And it would certainly contradict with the traditional lores of the Christians too, if God wasn't like an all-seeing, all-knowing spiritistic being in Genesis which created all the universe from scratch, but instead a technologically advanced, yet mortal and imperfect creature like an alien from outta space.

The Bible doesn't make sense. If you stop believing that the god creature is perfect and absolutely good, then a flawed Bible becomes logically possible.

And god can only be from outer space. If such a creature created the Earth, then it's not from Earth.

 

[eastsidebagel]

Nothing in the Bible conflicts with the theory that god is a space alien who lies.

I understand your point, but would such a deity, which is most probably long dead by now, still be worthy of being worshipped and prayed to?

 

[Flying Pig]

God created outer space too

Really, you can either believe that God doesn't care, in which case there are few grounds for believing in Him at all, or the Christian God which is easy to de-rationalise.

Besides, anyone who has read the HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy will know that God vanished.

 

[Elta]

Whoah, excepts from a site called godisimaginary.com, you're breaking new ground here. I except the Pope's resignation by noon at least.

I laughed so hard that I snorted

 

[Camikaze]

Besides, anyone who has read the HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy will know that God vanished.

Most importantly, in a puff of logic. Which just goes to show, you can't expect to prove God through logic, and as such, you can't expect to disprove God through logic. IMO.