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Prophets are *^&#$! worthless!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by DBear, Aug 30, 2008.

  1. DBear

    DBear unbeliever

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  2. Genv [FP]

    Genv [FP] Website Moron

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    Prophets are one of the most useful great people. Are you nuts or what

    And I don't see the chances in your pic
     
  3. EweezE

    EweezE Dog Soldier

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    You polluted your Great Person Points pool with prophet points from wonder spamming. You are even running a priest lol. It's your own fault. Don't spam wonders unless you are prepared to accept randomness amongst the great people you spawn.
     
  4. MrCynical

    MrCynical Deity

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    If you really want a great merchant rather than a prophet, I'd suggest running four merchant specialists rather than 2 merchants, 1 engineer and a priest(!).

    A query - where's your national epic? Have you got a better GP city somewhere else? Given your GP pool is already wonder polluted (presumably you've got 4 wonders plus the moai statues and a shrine?), you're already rather into pot luck territory, so you want to be producing as many great people as possible.

    Sometimes you're just out of luck when it comes to getting the right GP - though it's Mining Inc I generally have more trouble with, since engineer slots are harder to get. You can improve your odd in this situation though.
     
  5. Genv [FP]

    Genv [FP] Website Moron

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    Why are you running a priest and engineer when you can clearly run more merchants, or as Mrcynical cleverly pointed out
     
  6. DBear

    DBear unbeliever

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    I'm running a priest and engineer for the hammers, obviously, since it cuts down my build time. I'm in a war and I have no oil. Fortunately I have allies who do, or I'd be in trouble. Rant aside, what should I do with a Prophet at this point? Can't bulb him, no saving for GA, already have my holy cities.

    And the chances: Prophet 34%, Artist 9%, Merchant 42%, Engineer 15%.
    I wouldn't be complaining if what I got matched that, but out of about 7 GP out of my capital, I've gotten 5 Prophets and 2 Merchants. The merchants came early, one I used on a trading mission and the other to start a golden age.

    My great wonders are the Great Lighthouse, Chichen Itza, Spiral Minaret and Eiffel, along with a holy city.
    my national wonders are Moai Statues and the Hermitage.

    Yes, this is my first game in BTS--Captain Obvious, I know...
     
  7. Joshua368

    Joshua368 Warmongering builder

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    34% odds are not that unlikely, and certainly not worth making a forum thread to complain about. If you really want a great merchant then work for it by switching all those specialists to merchants. (and do it early, before you fill up the pool with others) But don't start whining when you run a priest and -- surprise, surprise -- a prophet comes out. That was a shocker. :p

    The only thing a prophet is really good for at this point of the game is a golden age, so hang on to him until you get other unneeded GP to help.
     
  8. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    Late game Great Prophets can also be settled in your Wall Street city, where the extra gold the contribute per turn will be multiplied (and the extra hammers are often very welcome).

    As was mentioned above, if you want to generate a particular type of Great Person, you really need to focus your efforts rather than run different types of specialists and build different wonders and leave it to chance.

    Wonders and specialists are what contribute GP points. The way to get a specific type of GP is (a) only build wonders in each city that contribute the same types of GP points and/or (b) only run the same types of specialists. So if you want a great merchant, build wonders like the Great Lighthouse, the Colossus, and Versailles in the same city and run merchant specialists there.

    Also, in your Great Person farm, try to build as few wonders as possible. Surprising advice, I know, but it gives you greater control in directing the outcome, because you can change the specialists you're running to increase the chances of a specific GP type without too many wonders polluting the odds.
     
  9. EweezE

    EweezE Dog Soldier

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    I usually only set up 2 GP farms. One builds a few wonders to generate points and runs only some specialists. The other is a dedicated farm running as many specialists as it can. NE goes in either one.
     
  10. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I do get mad when I build national epic and get an artist, even though I have 15-20X more GPP in other categories. An artist should be under 5% chance if I am getting over 20 GPP and only 1 of them is for an artist. I've actually gotten 2 in one game from such a city, with the sole source of artist points being from the NE.

    Them's the breaks. Minimize your chances best you can. 34% chance to spawn an unwanted GP isn't exactly optimal if you care so much.

    Prophets are good for the hammers IMO, though late in the game it's either a shrine or a golden age. In your case, probably the latter. Hell, maybe you should burn a golden age, TAKE THE PRIEST OFF, and run a LOT OF MERCHANTS AT ONCE, even if it starves a little.

    Although unless you have a ton of wonders in there that we can't see it's not a great GP farm anyway.
     
  11. Kiwi Tyrant

    Kiwi Tyrant Evil Jollification

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    If you can't pre-setup your GP cities to angle for certain GG's you want, due to factors out of your control (wonders already built, wars etc.), then you may have to save any 1 merchant and/or 1 engineer to try found the Sushi and Mining corporations later on. The OP is new to BTS and would not have known this (he's got alot of posts though!?).

    Note: hopefully you get the specific GG's later and not too early (having to sleep, instead of embedding etc, a GG for many years would make me cringe). Secondly, if you save those GG's for whatever reason, and the AI beats you to founding the corporation you were long dreaming of, then it will all turn out to be a complete waste of time (and untold turns of potential bonuses!).......nearly an instant rage-quit.

    With more experience, and if everythings under control, just follow Sisiutil's advice and you'll be sweet. :goodjob:
     
  12. DanF5771

    DanF5771 Emperor

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    You can always gift it to a shrine-less friend (move him to the holy city first). A shrine increases religious hatred by -2. In rare circumstances this can be used to tweak AI relations for a diplomatic victory. But here I would definitely save him for a GA. Moai in bureau capital + GA (best boosted by MoM) = :hammers:-time!
    Why did you build Hermitage in your coastal capital? You don't appear to be too close to a cultural victory.

    Edit: was completely wrong about religious attitude change, sorry!
     
  13. JujuLautre

    JujuLautre Deity

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    Where did you get that from? It's the first time I ever read someone saying that, and I never noticed that in games.
     
  14. DanF5771

    DanF5771 Emperor

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    Sorry, mixed that up with the extra -1 for the holy city, shrines don't have any effect, (although it might be a good idea).
     
  15. JujuLautre

    JujuLautre Deity

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    then my question still holds, I never heard of anything linked to the shrine or the holy city
     
  16. jerVL/kg

    jerVL/kg Sheep Nuker

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    Don't build Chicken Pizza. The wonder sucks and it's only practical effect is making you spam Great Prophets. (Same goes for Angkor Wat.)

    Spiral Minaret is good, but should've been built somewhere else to prevent Priest pollution. I try to consolidate all the Prophet wonders in one city (preferably some place that will only produce 1 or 2 GPs the whole game) and concentrate the Merchant/Scientist/Engineer wonders in my main GP farm.

    Maui Statues is ok (but you should reassign the freshwater lake & extra coast tile to Aachen for max effectiveness) but Hermitage is a waste in your capital. With a Hindu shrine, Wall Street would've been much better, especially if you want a Merchant Farm.

    I guess you didn't get Colossus or SoL?
     
  17. DanF5771

    DanF5771 Emperor

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    Ok, this is something I'm absolutely sure of (now:mischief:). The code is in
    CvPlayerAI::AI_getDifferentReligionAttitude(PlayerTypes ePlayer)
    Code:
    if (hasHolyCity(getStateReligion()))
    {
    	iAttitude--;
    }
    The attitude change due to different religion is the sum of:
    a) the Leader's value for DifferentReligionAttitudeChange (0 for Willem ... -2 for Saladin)
    b) -1 if the Leader has the holy city
    c) negative buildup of -1 every 5 turns, but this is capped at -1 for all Leaders (DifferentReligionAttitudeChangeLimit)!

    So maximum religious hatred will be -4.


    The attitude change due to same religion is the sum of:
    a) the Leader's value for SameReligionAttitudeChange (+1 for all Leaders)
    b) +1 if the Leader has the holy city
    c) positive buildup of +1 every 10 turns, capped at the Leader's SameReligionAttitudeChangeLimit (+1 for Willem ... +7 for Asoka)

    So maximum religious love will be +9!
     
  18. Jerrymander

    Jerrymander Epistemologist

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    This topic is hilarious.
     
  19. JujuLautre

    JujuLautre Deity

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    This is interesting. So in fact, it is integrated inside the "we love our brothers/sisters of faith", or the opposite, thus you don't "see" it. Thanks for sharing this information :)
     
  20. EweezE

    EweezE Dog Soldier

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    :rotfl:
    I'm stealing that name!


     

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