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Proposal: Bonus Resource Trading and New Effects

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Medieval: Conquests' started by Kailric, Sep 16, 2014.

  1. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    I have been studying World Civilizations, and it has me excited about the World History mod. It has also sparked some new Ideas. I have a proposal that I am considering implementing. It is a new way to handle Bonus Resources. Much like in Civ4 where bonuses can be traded so it will be in M:C. Bonuses will have additional effects as listed below. To Gain the special effect of a Bonus, it must be connected to a City by a road, thus part of your Trade Network.

    -The First of a bonus you acquire is used by your Realm, any extras can then be traded to other Civs.
    -Certain Yields will have special uses, such as Ore, explained below.

    Connected Bonus XML moddable effects

    -Increases Max Population
    -Increased Sale Price
    -Production Modifiers
    -Faster City Growth
    -Free Unit Promotions for Professions
    -Allows Improvements
    -Allows Buildings

    Food Changes
    For this change most average plots will only give two food, thus initial cities that are not built around tiles with extra food, such as River Plots will only be able to support cities with multiple Farmers. Mass production of Food allowed Villages to grow and also allowed for specialized Trade. A potter could open a pottering business only if he was able to focus on Pottery and not have to worry about growing food. He thus then sold his Pottery and bought Food. Only with a surplus of food was this kind of specialization accomplished.

    Ore Changes
    There will only ever be but one type of consumable ore, called Ore. The “type” of ore you have depends on the hierarchy of Bonus Ore you have connected to your Cities. Different types of Ore give your Units different Free Promotions when they select a Worker, Military, or other Outdoor profession. The hierarchy is as such:

    • Copper
    • Bronze (Only if you have Copper and Tin)
    • Iron
    • Steel (Only if you have required tech for Steel plus Iron)

    When you create a Unit with an Outdoor profession it will gain a Promotion depending on your Ore type, such as Copper Weapons: +10% Strength. If you lose your Bonus resource that unit will still have the free promotion, however, any new units created will not gain the Free Promotion. This will help cut back on the need to have so many new Yield Types as well as cut back on Micro Management.

    Connected Bonus Effects and Bonuses from Natives
    To Receive the Bonus’ effect you need but one that is connected to your Cities, either through your own Trade Network or through Trade with another Civ. To gain the Sell Price Bonus at a Trade Screen market you need a Port City connected to the Bonus if it is a Sea based Trade Screen, or Connected to an access plot by Routes for land based Trade Screens. Perhaps you will need a Market in your Cities to gain access as well. Some Bonus resources are gained from native villages, such as Pepper. If you have a trade network connected to a native village that has Pepper, you can negotiate a Trade deal to gain Pepper as a Bonus resource. Pepper Bonus will greatly Increase Production of Luxury food. Bonuses that can be traded from Natives will be displayed on the Village’s billboard.

    Other Bonus and Yield Changes and Examples

    Most Bonuses will give its normal +1 or whatever production bonus to the plot they are on.
    • Pepper- Increases Production of Luxury Food
    • Wheat- (Replaces Corn) Gives a bonus of +1 Food on plots with 2 Food for connected Cities. +1 Max City Population
    • Barley- Gives a bonus of +1 Food on plots with 2 Food for connected Cities. +1 Max City Population
    • Wheat & Barley: You only receive one such +1 Food Bonus, but if you have both of these you gain a Synergy bonus of 25% reduction to City Growth Costs
    • Cotton- is No longer a Yield, only a Bonus Resource. It adds a Sell bonus to Cloth, if Cloth can be sold for 10 gold each, you will for example gain a 20% bonus income so that Cloth is worth 12 gold each. This only applies if the Trade Screen or City you are selling to is in your Trade Network.
    • Silk- Is No longer a Yield but adds a Sell bonus to Coats, as mentioned above. Can be traded from connected Natives
    • Dye- Adds a Sell Bonus to Coats and Cloth
    • Fur- Adds a Production Bonus to Coats
    • Grapes- Means you have exceptional Wine and get a Sell Bonus
    • Crabs and Fish- +1 Max Population
    • Game (Deer )- Bonuses to all Hunting activities. This will include any new Features where you can auto hunt game areas. Bonus to Hides production
    • Granite(Stone)- Increases Production of all buildings and Improvements requiring Stone by 50%, cost to build Paved roads is Halved
    • Cattle, Horses, Sheep- since these Resources are Creatable they will work as Normal. Or perhaps, if you have Bonuses of one of these it allows you to build Improvements such as Cow Pens etc. in any of your Cities.
    • Wine and Ale- Glass Making Tech increases the Sell Price of these items regardless of trade Network
    • Incense- adds a Production Bonus to Religion
    • Leather Armor: is replaced by Light Armor, produced from Hides, gains a Strength bonus from Techs, see below.
    • Light and Heavy Armor- The different types of Armor could be replaced and function much like Ore. Armors gains a Bonus from the Type of Ore you have access to and also from Certain techs. Like after you research Chain Mail your Heavy Armor and Light gains a Bonus, after Plate Armor techs your Heavy Armor gains a bonus.

    To Help take the place of Cotton and Silk we can introduce new Professions

    Jewelsmith
    Turns Ore into Ornaments
    Ornaments are a highly prized commodity and have a great value.
    Connected Bonus Resources:
    Amber: Increases Production of Ornaments
    Gold: Increases the Value of Ornaments
    Pearls: Increased Value of Ornaments
    Amber, Gold, Pearl synergy bonus: Increased Fealty production

    Pottery
    Turns Clay into Pottery
    Connected Bonus Resources
    Porcelain: Increases sell value of Pottery

    Help me think this through and come up with all the Effects, Pros and Cons...:confused:
     
  2. Lib.Spi't

    Lib.Spi't Overlord of the Wasteland

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    I like this as a premise.

    In my plans I only had a single form of ore also, that could then be produced into all the types of metal but all in the same building and you choose which one to forge at any given time. (like with the armour system.) So you would need multiple towns to forge the various metals at the same time. (I was also thinking of adding extra forge buildings in the industrial era and beyond so you could produce more than one kind of metal in one town).

    I like this idea also, perhaps it could be made so that you can only produce certain things if you have the bonus in your network, so for example you can only create copper from ore if you have a bonus copper in your network. (This is more for WH than Medi, as I feel you need this system to keep growth, expansion, production and industrialisation as relevant parts of a much larger/longer game. (plus i already did all that work with resource icons :D)

    The switch to light/heavy armour could be interesting too. At the moment in WH, you can produce multiple kinds of armour and weapons (Stone, Bronze, Iron, Steel etc.) but it could be returned to just basic types, and adds superior promotions when made from better materials, rather than simply making more modern units. (Although again the resources are already added so dunno..)

    I like all the XML moddable attributes, they sound really good with lots of flexibility, perhaps again for WH I would request unlocks production job, so in the 'ore refinery' building copper unlocks the 'copper' production job and iron unlocks 'heavy armour' in the 'armoursmith's shop' or whatever.
     
  3. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    We do have plotgroups from Civ4 and I did do something about caching number of bonuses in the plotgroup. However due to debate regarding what to actually use it for, it ended up never being used and right now I'm not sure if it is working or not. I think I actually disabled it or parts of it for performance reasons. Also do remember that our plotgroups only spread across roads due to exe limitations.

    I'm not sure I like the idea of replacing actual yields with bonuses and trade network. Civ4 does that because of a lack of yields and transport units. Also we need to find a balance between too few and too many yields. Right now M:C certainly do not have too many.

    One interesting idea would be something like this: Instead of providing +1 food (or whatever), it provides +100% land food production. Multiple bonuses of the same type stack. However they will also have to be divided by the number of citizens in the plotgroup, possibly with a capped minimum to make sure bonuses are still interesting in late games.

    The concept of unit promotions based on tech, civic and bonuses works well in FFH2, though we may consider ways to make number of bonuses count. One city with 3 bonuses in FFH2 provides the same bonus as 100 cities with 1 bonus.

    Speaking of production bonuses. I have been thinking of making stored yields floating point. The reason is this:
    Say we have a city of 8 people. They eat 16 food each turn and they also produce 16 food. The city has +10% food production.
    This mean right now it calculates 16*110 = 1760. It then divides that with 100, which gives 17. Subtracting the 16 eaten, 1 is added to the storage.
    However if we make the calculations with floating point, it will be 16*1.1 = 17.6. Subtract 16 and 1.6 is added to storage, or more specifically without rounding to int, we increased surplus production with 60%.

    If we do that, production bonuses will be more interesting as unlike now, even minor bonuses will not be lost due to int rounding.
     
  4. orlanth

    orlanth Storm God. Yarr!

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    I like many of those ideas in theory, though I'd agree with NG that any special stuff Bonus-linking should be a minor part of the game compared to the core standard system of Yield production which is the "soul" of col and works well. I'm mostly concerned that with major revisions to DLL and XMLs I may never be able to get 2071 mod working again or be able to figure out why its become non compatible. :sad:

    I'd be ok with making stored Yields and/or Prices into floats if you think it's worthwhile, though not sure it's mandatory (what's a little rounding error between friends:p;)). I still think the main next thing to concentrate on that would give the most major benefit to Economy balance & gameplay would be to let relative balance between supply/demand for Yields influence the local Yield prices in each city or plotgroup. That would help act as a continuous natural balancing force throughout the game, remedying situations where you've gotten stuck & it's hard to make money (raising local prices for goods in high demand/undersupplied thus giving you a nice incentive to meet citizens needs), and equally offsetting times when your production is booming and it's too easy to make money (lowering prices on goods where you've flooded the market)
     
  5. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    Thanks for the feedback. I understand the concerns. I am thinking ahead to the World History mod, studying History like I am is getting me excited about that mod and it may be the next one I help pursue, if we can ever get M:C, its base, in a happy state:)

    The main thing I was thinking about was the simplicity of Unit Professions, strength and Abilities, being Linked to Bonuses. Having so many versions of Weapons, Armor, and such I feel will be an extreme pain to attempt to code, mod, balance, and add to the game, not to mention micro manage it in the game, that the question is will it be worth it? Already, with the number of Armor types, it is a bit of a pain to keep up with what Professions need what Armor, what City is producing which Armor, and making sure each city has a stock pile of them all. Which, having a Warrior with Leather vs one with Chainmail simply increases his Strength by a little, but to get that one increase we had to add and code a slew of art files, icons, XML, dll, and Python. So, I am looking into a more streamlined simpler solution.

    Armor and Weapon types will have their eras, after that they will need to be removed from play and that is another issue we have to deal with, what to do with the stock piles of Bone Weapons and Chain Mail when we begin to introduce Gun Powder. Again, instead of having the many versions of weapons through out history, we would simply have "Weapons". In the background we can change the art by having say, four types: Before Gun Powder, Gun Powder, Automatic, and then perhaps future Laser weapons, but still they will only ever be called Weapons. One turn you choose Infantry and your man has a Spear and Shield. The next turn you learn Gun Powder, you click your Infantry to choose a profession and the Best Professions are listed, that being Infantry(Gun Powder), Infantry(Spear and Shield) is no longer listed because there is one better.

    If we adopt such a new system, instead of units getting new Promotions we could add new Sub Professions, and the professions have the Promotions. That way art can be easily changed since that system is already in place. So, if you have a Swordsman (with Copper Weapons Promotion) and obtain the Iron Bonus, our Swordsman Profession will then have the Iron Weapons Promotion instead and the art as well. All the weapons you have in stock will basically converted to "Iron" (theoretically not literally) as soon as you gain the bonus. Which works fine since each turn is actually 1 year or more, so basically in that time frame the change was made.

    And we would not be losing or belittling the current trading system only enhancing it. If we are going to simplify things like Weapon production with Bonuses why not add the other Professions as well, is what I was thinking. There is plenty of room to add new industries and I suggested two, which would take the place of current Yields that I am thinking of converting to just a bonus or technology. Like with Silk, Silk is still "Cloth" or Textiles, why have multiple versions of Textiles when we could add trade-able Bonuses that enhance Textile production and replace Silk with a different industry.

    Also, I am considering replacing Coats, since it is a remnant from vanilla Col and it is technically just another Cloth, which isn't all that exciting. There have been many suggestions on new industries on these forums so it shouldn't be to difficult to find another.

    @Nightinggale, yes I was wondering about what all was already added and working when it came to Plot Bonuses. If you get the chance look over the code and give me idea what has been done, what's working, and what isn't. Also, what are the chances of getting Rivers to work as Routes and add to plot groups, as in Civ4?

    @orlanth, Yeah Night told me about the issues with 2071, but I haven't took the time to look into it yet. I told him that it may just be easier to convert 2071 to M:C from scratch. But, it would be best to wait until M:C is in a more finished state as there are extensive changes that have taken place and more to come. Which is all XML moddable but still, 2071 will need to be set up correctly in order to maintain its current features and effects. You would start by converting all the graphics, and then setting up the XML correctly. If that looks like our best option I would help in the process.
     
  6. Trade Winds

    Trade Winds Warlord

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    I am going to take the role of the devil’s advocate here, because I must say I don’t like some of this bonuses.

    I like colonization because it is a very commercialistic game and everything can be produced or paid for. Exceptions are the intangible goods, but even in that case, you must care for your clergymen or dignitaries, feed them and hopefully eventually provide them with other commodities.

    For that reason I find these bonuses a bit unrealistic, where other more mercantilist replacements could be there instead.
    For instance, in the “Connected Bonus XML moddable effects” section, I can find other alternatives:

    Spoiler :

    -Increases Max Population
    Building your cities near rivers or have more buildings such as hospitals or sewage systems, have new food goods such as fruit to add alimentation variety and therefore sustain more population.
    -Increased Sale Price
    Be the first one to produce or mine a resource and let a high demand pay.
    -Production Modifiers
    Have a good supply of fuel resources such as wood or coal in your factories to boost your production.
    -Faster City Growth
    Building your cities in more fertile areas and trade extra food, or buy food from low economically developed civs.
    -Free Unit Promotions for Professions
    Build better schools or let workers in more productive areas learn faster.
    -Allows Improvements / -Allows Buildings
    Faster, better administered research


    Nevertheless, I like the food changes ideas; ore could be more varied, but I don’t really mind having an only one “ore” throughout centuries.
    I also like the idea of food synergies, but not really the added price for bonuses as for example cotton or dye.

    Overall, I see all this as a trading system simplification, but I may understand that if we wanted to create a WHM, some simplification might be needed.

    I also understand the fact of keeping obsolete resources occupying an slot in your warehouses in WHM through ages, because it is not real to keep a slot for armour in the 21st C. There must be shared warehouse space as in RaR but without actual slots. If you have 300 space, and you produce 4 extra food and 3 furs, in the lower part of the city screen there may only appear a slot with 4 food, a slot with 3 fur and a number stating 293 storage space left. The rest of the space clear. Then you unload 100 tools, you have the 3 slots (food, furs and tools) now and 193 storage space left.
    Again, I have no idea if such big change fits in this engine.
     
  7. Fullerene

    Fullerene Warlord

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    Just a comment about "ore" promotions: Let's say you have a copper weapon promotion. Now you gain access to iron. You go to city and disarm and re-arm your soldier. Your weapons are magically upgraded from copper to iron! Or did I understand it wrong?
     
  8. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    That's how I read it as well and it is how FFH2 works. However I'm not convinced it's a good idea. Imagine doing that with a mail armor promotion. Not only would it take lots of mining to get iron enough to do so (or stockpile), it would also take a whole lot of labour to do. A blacksmith has to smith each ring individually and then they have to be put together. Often the problem wasn't getting the metal, but simply allocating enough skilled men to make them.

    Mails look like this, though in real life they used smaller rings, hence even more work.
     
  9. Lib.Spi't

    Lib.Spi't Overlord of the Wasteland

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    Yeah, I do not think the 'obsolete' yields will be that much of a problem, I just had a quick look at my WHM stuff, and I think there are only 10 or so yields that go obsolete. I think I have a total of almost 85-90.. over the course of 10000 years that is not bad. I prefer this to the auto upgrade system, that works for civ, but col is all about the production chain. I prefer the idea of having to gain a bonus in your plot group to be able to build the new materials. (Such as a copper or Iron bonus) This necessitates the need to expand, explore and trade for what you don't have, but then once you have a source, the base input yield is still just ore. (Otherwise I think it would be too much micromanagement and/or crippling for those who can only find a small amount.) But multiple amounts of the bonus could give a boost to production or whatever. (To reward the civ that finds lots of a particular material)

    I like the idea of having to transition your empire from one yield type to another, it is what empires have struggled to do since the dawn of time, usually the one that does it the best or fastest gains the edge.

    Otherwise you could potentially upgrade 100 sword units to guns in a single turn.. ( I know this is exaggerated, but I feel like the player should work to improve his military or infrastructure units.)
     
  10. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    Some good thoughts there Trade Winds.

    While the proposed changes would simplify certain parts of Production/Professions, as a whole there isn't really that big of a simplification. It actually adds some complexity in the form of Diplomacy and Trade Deals.

    But, for the moment I will put aside thoughts for WH mod, and think of alternatives.

    I would like to see more Trade Deals going on between Civs, and that was one idea for this. Perhaps we can add a new command for Peddlers, Merchants, and Caravans in that if you bring them to a foreign city you can setup Trade Deals. The trader will then begin shuffling goods between your Civ and Theirs. Say, for like 10 turns you can not council the command. If you click the unit, there will be no commands for it, not even a delete button. After ten turns you can then cancel the deal. There is usually a 10 turn limit on deals where they can not be cancelled. Or perhaps a better idea would be to set a number of trips, or perhaps just keep it going continually until ones sides decides to cancel or the unit is destroyed, etc.

    Anyway, keep your thinking hats on:D

    PS I did like the idea of Techs increasing the Sell Price of certain goods though. Like say for Pottery, if you Invent Porcelain your Pottery can sell for more.
     
  11. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    Looking at the code it looks like I finished implementing an array of bonuses in the plotgroup (basically a cache). I'm not 100% sure, but I think the code is just copied from BTS. Since we ended up not using it, I decided to hide it from the compiler. If we define the flag USE_PLOTGROUP_RESOURCES it should keep track of number of bonuses.

    That array is not saved. This mean it must rely on recalculating on game load. If it doesn't do that right now (not really sure about that), then we will either have to save it or (better yet) recalculate on load.

    I'm not sure about adding rivers to plotgroups. There are two reasons for that. One is the code to handle plotgroup spread use a pathfinder in the exe. This makes it somewhat more complicated to modify. The other reason is that I have a plan on improving automated transports, where units will only transport between cities connected by road (read: same plotgroup). We can't have the performance boost for quick road connection checks and use rivers at the same time. We will have to pick.

    Single ore yield
    I have been thinking a bit about the low number of ores (or yields for that matter). I think it will oversimplify the game if ore is just a single yield. I think M:C would improve if we increase the number of yields, not decrease it.

    The promotion system
    I have been giving it some thought and I would say that I prefer to use subprofessions rather than promotions for that. We have a fairly simple system, which works and it is very AI friendly. If we are to replace it with something else, we should consider it carefully because it will take some work to avoid the AI from getting even more stupid.

    Multiple armor micromanagement
    I'm not sure cutting down on number of armors is what we want. We might have to improve something in this regard, but just removing content seems like a bad idea to me.

    Colonization 2071
    Off topic for this thread, but since it is already mentioned: We have two options for getting it to work again. One is to find the cause of the crash at startup (it has to be XML related, possibly malformated/broken XML code). Alternatively we start over using an up to date M:C, but if we do that, we should likely wait until the next M:C release.
     
  12. Trade Winds

    Trade Winds Warlord

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    To brainstorm for ideas to have more interesting and varied diplomatic trading options, I have tried to separate this into several categories following a bit these on the founding fathers. These trade agreements could involve offers from several categories. I don’t include current diplomacy options such as gold trading. I hope to spur some ideas with this:

    Commerce
    Currently, we have an open borders agreement and that entitles you to go to one civ and sell whatever you want. I agree with the idea we could trade for longer supplying ventures. I also agree civs could deal about establishing trading posts at foreign cities.

    You could also trade here:
    Ban selling/buying certain commodity in my civ
    Ban selling/buying certain commodity to other civs
    Don’t trade with other civs
    Demand not to produce something and its ME who will sell it to your civ
    Trade everything with me

    Religion
    Invade the impious Pope / don’t invade the pious Pope
    Combat / Promote this religion

    Exploration and Expansion
    Let me prospect your lands
    Let me establish a city/ plantation / mine / fishery for some time and then it will be yours
    Don’t expand to that part of the continent. (Difficult to do)
    Everything discovered south is mine and north is yours. (Difficult to do)

    Production
    You have coal deposits and you don’t know what coal is at all, so I can pay you for digging a number of these useless dirty stones.
    Help me build a cotton factory in my poor city in the south.
    Lend me your skilled workers for three years
    I can send my fishermen to your cities for a share of what is produced

    Military
    All the current possible truces and alliances
    Sell me one Man-of-War
    Send a regiment on my orders for some time

    Research
    Lets investigate this together, but then keep it to ourselves, don’t trade it with a third party

    Education
    Train a Fur trapper for me
    Let’s exchange professionals

    Politics
    Adopt such or such Civic

    We could let our brilliant dignitaries, generals or peddlers reach agreements when in a foreign city about their activities, but an Ambassador sent or even living in a foreign civ could reach agreements in all categories.

    Regarding to selling more expensive pottery because you investigated porcelain, it is nice because it is an incentive for you to research porcelain o trade for this bonus. But in a well working market system, why would another civ buy your more expensive porcelain when cheaper pottery from another civ do cover their needs?
     
  13. Lib.Spi't

    Lib.Spi't Overlord of the Wasteland

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    One thing DOaNE does with trade is trade contracts with natives.

    Where you can ask them for a trade deal.

    It lasts for X turns (more turns for larger contracts)
    They offer X yield (like tobacco or cotton, that can generate a good price back home)
    They ask for Y yield (usually something like horse, tools, trade goods. It will always benefit you, so you will give much less than you get so it's always worth doing.)
    You then select a town to 'honour the contract' and a transport to shift the goods, then over the next 20 turns (length of the contract) it will carry the minimum amount it needs to complete the transaction in the time allowed.
    Completing the contract gives you a boost to relations and they will be more likely to trade with you for bigger/better/longer contracts next time you visit.

    I don't know exactly how it works it all out and decides how much to transport each trip, etc. but the system is quite nice because it is very user friendly, it places all the options in front of you and is completed with just a few clicks, and the only thing you have to remember is to make sure your town has enough of the yield to honour it's side of the bargain, and it has a screen where you can view your current active contracts to see what you still owe and from where.
     
  14. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    A good brain storm Trade Winds, ideas duly noted. Why would a civ want to buy my Porcelain, hmm, good question. Well, for one why did any one want to buy Porcelain, because it was new and looked better:D That is something to keep in mind though.

    Swine DOaNE, not releasing their code. Hmm, I guess we'll just have to make our own, and make it better ;)

    @Nightinggale, I noted all your post. I'll leave off with this idea for now and come up with some alternatives. The above mentioned trade deals seems like a start.
     
  15. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    Technically we have their python code due to the inability to hide that one. However as much as I disagree with their choice not to share their code, I respect it and haven't snooped around their python code.

    I think the brainstorming regarding trade and did some of my own. I started molding an idea in my head and it ended up sort of like how the colonies worked in the Mogul Empire (India before the English took over).

    First you make a trade enabling agreement with another player. In this agreement you agree to build a trading station in one of his cities. This trading post is more or less just a warehouse. The trading station then have a trader/cartaker/whatever, who is instructed to buy whatever you want to buy from this player. Transports then arrive once in a while to unload cargo and pick up whatever you have bought over the past months. The trader then tries to sell the unloaded cargo while buying cargo for the next transport. This gives the possibility to maintain a somewhat even trade even though transports arrives more or less randomly.

    The trade agreement can be possible even though you do not have open borders agreement (which really should be split away from trade agreements). Instead you make an agreement that you send transports from a specific city you own to the trading station. This will make a path though his land, which your transports are allowed to travel on even though he likes to keep the rest of his land a secret from you. We could also add that the path could be either on land or by sea.

    A little note: real life trading stations were often a small fort like structure at the coast and as such not really inside foreign cities. Friendly ships had permission to land at this location, to exchange goods with the warehouse. However nobody had permission to enter the land meaning local merchants came with wagons to do the trade. Most colonies in Africa worked the same way.


    We can do more regarding the option to share research. One thing which comes to mind is somehow mark technology with a playerID (or teamID). Say I trade tech A for tech B. Because I don't want tech A to be widespread, I add to the deal that it should be untradable. If the other civ trade it anyway, it will go into the AI system as a sneak attack where he is the bad guy. As a result, he would take a diplomatic penalty for doing so. However he is free to do so if you are at war anyway because then it would be ok to break your deals. They are kind of void anyway.
    If we have a tech marking system like this, we can apply the mark to shared research techs as well... if we like.
     
  16. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

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    Well, I for one do not respect it. It goes against everything this Forum and Firaxis stands for. Just think if Firaxis was just as greedy with their code, we wouldn't have this forum.

    Your ideas sound pretty good. I am still play testing when I have the chance and will be thinking about all that is said here. One of the next things I want to fix is the inability to capture "Native" villages. This doesn't make sense anymore sense the Natives are simply minor civs and their villages have all the potential as the players.

    You may have forgot or missed it, but I have separated Open Borders from Trade Relations. In order to get an Open Borders deal you must first have a Trade Relations and on very good terms. Trade Relations only allows Non Combat units to enter the territory. The fort like trading station on the edge of the empire sounds like an interesting idea at some point perhaps.
     
  17. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,354
    Good point and to be honest I never thought much of NoaNE in regard of their python code. Most likely I haven't been in a situation where I go "I want that feature" for python only features, in which case I have had little interest to actually look at their code. They do have some interesting features which I would like to look at, but none of those can be made to be python only.

    There has been some talk about capturing Aztec and Inca cities in RaR for a while. Perhaps we should pay attention and see if interesting code turns up.
     
  18. Trade Winds

    Trade Winds Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2013
    Messages:
    235
    Well, we humans fancy things, but my point is that one civ offers the AI some pottery and you offer the AI some pottery +1 gold/unit. Why would the AI buy yours?

    Or take tools. One civ offers the AI some tools and you offer the AI some tools +1 gold/unit because you have a bounus for stainless steel. Why would the AI buy your tools when the same amount of simple tools would equip the Infantry?
     
  19. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,354
    Possibly for the same reason as people buy a big Mercedes instead of a VW Polo even though both can drive to work in the same time or people buy an iPhone even though they only use it to make phonecalls. It's something called "I can afford it and you can't :p".
    I think that is basically the concept of more expensive yields, which does precisely the same as the cheap yields.
     
  20. Kailric

    Kailric Jack of All Trades

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    Messages:
    3,095
    Location:
    Marooned, Y'isrumgone
    Well, this "bonus" could apply only to Sells to Trade Screens perhaps.

    Anyway, in my current game I have two towns going with a Corn bonus in between just out of both my towns reaches. Which brought me back to the idea here of Connecting Bonuses to your trade network and perhaps gaining come benefit from them.

    Trade Winds made mention that this seemed unrealistic, but after all it is a game and there are already plenty of "unrealistic" features and effects. I think an addition like this would add a "neat" effect and encourage expansion and add a bit of strategy. It would make Bonuses more viable as well, instead of just having the +1 or +2 resource bonus. Also, it won't bother you nearly as bad if you have to choose between Bonuses when founding a settlement because you know you can connect it later and gain some small benefit.
     

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