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Proposal for economic subgame ruleset -taxes

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Demo Game IV: Citizens' started by Provolution, Apr 7, 2008.

  1. Lord Civius

    Lord Civius Emperor

    Mar 11, 2008
    With all of the input so far from you guys I am starting to see that compromises will have to be made by all of us. I am beginning to see where you are taking this Prov and I like the idea but for simplicty sake I suggest we narrow it down a little for now. I will expand the economy to include land owners and non-landowners and move beyond just the Trading Guilds but will give them the influence they deserve as the suppliers of all Goods. Ravensfires supply and demand system is superior to mine so I think we should use it in conjunction with some of the other posters ideas. Yakami's Samurai/Knight (Warrior?) class is also a nice addition and will open up new avenues. Strider, I thought your ida was more of an off the beaten path roleplay for Churchmembers only but I will take a look at it again and see how we can tie it in if the Church so chooses. So I am off to spend a couple of hours tying it all in and see what we can come up with.
  2. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Jul 21, 2004
    Expanded Ruleset for Economic Subgame


    Arete Aristocrats

    We apply a very easy and fundamental income model:

    • Landowners earn 0.25 gold per food per turn above 1 food (Population growth gives more labor etc, so the demographic increase indirectly helps landowners)
    • Landowners may use hammers within their tile to build local structures with a principle similar to the city buildings, just in a smaller scale. These hammers tend to be between zero hammers to 5-6 hammers at the maximum for mined iron ores.
    • Landowners retain all the gold they earn within their tile, and may spend it for added hammers and foods, or to buy new land, even sponsor a military unit or pay for their own workforce.

    Stone Age Buildings for a landowner may be:

    Tile Building (City Building) - where hammer costs are 1/4 of the city costs.

    • Mansion (Palace) 40 (160) Prerequisite for owning more than 2 tiles
    • Barn (Granary) 15 (60) Adds 50 % food production
    • Shrine (Temple) 20 (80) Prerequisite for owning three neighboring tiles
    • Warriors Camp (Barracks) 10 (60) Halves the number of accumulated resources lost in case of foreign army incursion
    • Stuttery (Stable) 15 (60) May contract other cities outside on district for trades
    • Seers Hall (Monastery) 15 (60) Prerequisite for owning two neighboring tiles
    • Village Hall (Court House) 30 (120) May initiate long term delivery contracts of food, resource and hammers
    • Tablets (Library) 25 (90) Gives 1 % of the beakers in gold, rounded up to 1, per technology gained
    • Quay (Lighthouse) 15 (60) Gives 2 gold every turn a ship is standing next to the tile
    • Trading Company (Market) 40 (150) Gives 10 Gold every time a foreign unit (barbarians or foreigners) passes by, and 20 gold if it lands on the tile
    • Statue (Obelisk) 10 (30) Prerequisite for owning one neighboring tile
    • Palisades (Walls) 15 (50) Shelters buildings from barbarian or foreign pillaging, but if pillaged tile, palisades are lost

    These tile buildings are basically built as they are done in the main civ game, just on a smaller scale, only utilizing what is available within a players tiles. These buildings are available up to Code of Laws.

    There will also be a couple of tile-related "miniwonders", we may call these "marvels", of which only 1 can exist within the realm, these are the equivalent of national wonders.

    These miniwonders are related to the unique opportunities near Arete, there will be a different set of miniwonders per city depending on local resources and geography

    • Provincial Palace (Forbidden Palace) 60 (250)
    • Provincial Epic (National Epic) 60 (250)
    • Provincial Dining Hall*** (Reliable access to 0.5 horse, Reliable access to 0.5 pig and reliable access to 0.5 fish) - Cost 50
    • Arete Transport Company (Reliable access to 0.5 horse and 2 food) -Cost 50
    • Arete Chariot Stuttery (Reliable access to 0.5 horse and 3 food) - Cost 50
    • Arete Thunderdome Fertilizer (Reliable access to 0.5 pig) - Cost 40
    • Arete Meat Company (Reliable access to 0.5 pig) - Cost 40
    • Arete Dryfish Company (Reliable access to 0.5 fish) - Cost 40
    • Arete Gravefish Company (Reliable access to 0.5 fish) - Cost 40

    Within Arete, there can be only 2 food companies per source of food, which is a natural limitation. This means, there is a cap of 2 companies for each, horse, fish and pig.

    Chariot Stuttery gains 5 gold per chariot produced.

    Patrician Class

    • Merchants (Exclusive brokering rights within Arete District)
    • Priests (Provided 1 gold per culture production per turn in the city)
    • Scientists (Provided 1/20 of the beakers a research provides in gold)
    • Engineers (2 gold per road built and 10 gold per tile improvement)
    • Citizens (The only ones that can sell hammers to non-city tiles, 1 per turn)

    All these gain a also "Great People Bonus", which is divided equally on the patricians of a city within the same specialist class. A great person earns the total amount of gold produced in the same turn it emerges, and is distributed equally on all within the same specialty class. This is a rare occurence, but may be lucrative.

    Artisan Class

    The artisans may have two parallel careers

    • Charioteers (per unit of chariots built, 1/6 of the hammers in gold)
    • Bowyers (per unit of archers built, 1/6 of the hammers in gold)
    • Club-makers (per unit of warriors built, 1/6 of the hammers in gold)
    • Boat-makers (per boat built, 1/6 of the hammers in gold)
    • Masons (per building built, 1/10 of the hammers in gold)
    • Carpenters (per building built, 1/10 of the hammers in gold)
    • Tailors (consumer-based, 0.25 gold per 1 population) Dyes
    • Cooks (consumer-based, 0.25 gold per 1 population)
    • Woodcarver (consumer-based, 0.25 gold per 1 population)
    • Citizen (May sell 1 hammer per turn as migrant laborer to tiles)
  3. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Jul 21, 2004
    Proposal for Civic applicaton to economic subgame[/B]

    Government Civics

    Handles land ownership

    • Despotism Land tiles may be given away, but not taken
    • Hereditary Rule Land tiles may be inherited and traded
    • Representation Land tiles may be bought and sold, but also ratified by poll
    • Police State Land tiles may be expropriated and redistributed
    • Universal Suffrage Land tiles may be regulated by public proposals and polls

    Legal Civic

    Handles Military Unit Ownership

    • Barbarism: There is a separate, professional faction dealing with war
    • Vassalage: Military Class emerges, players individually titled by government
    • Bureaucracy: Military divided into several independent specialty organizations
    • Nationhood: National Army, military is government operated by prime faction
    • Free Speech: Military operations dictated by public polls as in traditional demogames

    Labor Civic

    Handles ownership of workers (units)

    Tribalism: Workers owned by Prime Faction
    Slavery: Workers owned by Prime Faction Leader
    Serfdom: Workers owned by Landowner Class
    Caste System: Workers owned by Patrician Class
    Emancipation: Workers owned by Artisan Class


    Taxation handled by religion and economy civics

    Religion Civic

    • Paganism 5 % taxed from each player to a religious society
    • Organized Religion 10 % taxed from each player to a religious society
    • Theology 20 % taxed from each player to a religious society
    • Pacifism 5 % taxed from each player to a religious society
    • Free Religion 0 % taxed from each player to a religious society

    Economy Civic
    • Decentralization: 20 % taxed from each player to City Government
    • Mercantilism: 30 % taxed from each player to City Government
    • Free Market: 10 % taxed from each player to City Government
    • State Property: 50 % taxed from each player to City Government
    • Environmentalism: 40 % taxed from each player to City Government
  4. Lord Civius

    Lord Civius Emperor

    Mar 11, 2008
    Lets take it back to the beginning Giruvegan Land Law and start from here.

    Land-Owners are given a tile by the Prime-Faction leader (Cap City) and by Provincial Governors in future Cities. The P-F leader and Governors themselves own the the actual city tiles and therefore should have the most power in the Economic Sub-game as they are the Federal and local Gov't heads in the RP atmosphere. The tile yields are infact used in city for economic, industrial and population growth. This should be taken into account before we give the yields to the land-owners. For RP purposes I propose we call the yields going to the city from each tile taxes. So the yields shown on the Game map will represent a percentage of the tiles actual yield, the percentage is yet to be determined. Landowners can use their yields to invest in their cities for a return.They may also use them to build structures within their home tiles to encourage business in their territory. Provo has laid out a model for this but I would like for us to lightin it up a bit before making it official. Engineers would be hired and yields would be the "materials" used in the buildings construction.

    Land-ownership is also dependent on the Civics as certain ones like "State Property", "Police State" and "Vassalage" should either abolish land-ownership or change it to faction only ownership.

    Using a gold system is a little tricky this early in the game. I proposed a barter system but clearly this would only work for trading between guilds and not the economic system we have laid out here. I propose a set amount of gold per player to start the sub-game dependent on class. If someone has a better idea please suggest it.

    Lands gained that either have a resource or discover a resource will give the owner the ability to start a trading guild. The trading guilds will be the source of all supplies to the economy. All resources start off as raw material and the guild will receive a predetermined amount of RM each week. The RM now must be turned into goods and that is where our Specialist classes come in. Keep in mind that even horses are Raw Material as they must be trained so the RM goes for all resources no exceptions.

    Specialist Classes:
    Craftsmen- Buy RM from the Trading Guilds and produce goods from this raw material. A craftsmen can include anything from ironworker, Horsetrainer. Gemsmith, Winemaker, Chariotmaker, Engineer, etc....

    Traders- Buy a quantity of Goods from the Craftsmen and sell it to the Merchants. Craftsmen must sell their goods to a Trader as it is their specialty to travel the known world to find all things exotic for the local populations.

    Merchants- Buy the goods from the traders and sell them at their local shops (buildings) and companies. So by the time a steak reaches a citizen it has gone from the Pasture (Guild) through the chop house (craftsmen) and down a long road (Trader) to your local Eatery (Merchant).

    Citizens- The default class for all participants that are not Specialists.

    A Citizen can only hold one specialist title at any one time.Though Craftsmen may learn multiple skills. The first one is free and aech additional one will take 2 weeks to master. Traders must own a form of transportation to get the goods from one place to another. Right now chariots would be our only means of transportation. The vehicles will have a limit on the amount of each RM they can haul. I propose using a weight unit system to simplify this. For example gold is heavier than corn so 1 unit of gold would be equivelent to say 10 units corn. Merchants can own multiple shops (or buildings) but must build them. In turn they will need to pay an engineer to build one and the payment and time to build will depend on the engineers experience. I propose a Specialist earn xp but we can debate that later.

    *I will stop here for now and let you guys weigh in.
  5. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Jul 21, 2004
    I think the presented proposal I come with provides all players plenty of opportunity from gaining gold gradually. We cannot have a system with "start capital", since that would be too gamey for a start like this.

    I also think "trading" should be institutionalized in wonders/projects, and not be a profession, simply due to the administration surrounding it and the fact that trading is a business all classes can aspire to over time, if they prioritize it enough.

    Specialist classes remain with a citizen until a new Prime Faction change come into place, or there will be too much book-keeping with some of the wilder players changing class all the time.
  6. Lord Civius

    Lord Civius Emperor

    Mar 11, 2008
    I think seymoo brings up an interesting point here. Landowners help to feed the people of the their city, contribute to the production and local economy. Once their tile is improved they could then name it (Seymoo Farm for example). They could then profit based on their contribution to the city.

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