Proposed Policy Change - the Modiquette

leif erikson

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Staff is trying to update the policy on use of Mods at CivFanatics. We ask for your feedback on this proposed update and formalization of the Modiquette:

Any Mod that is developed using CivFanatics resources or is supplied by one of its authors through links in the forums or Downloads database is free to use, without permission, as long as credit is given.

The entire Modiquette may be found in this thread.

Sorry to redirect you around the site, but we wanted to have all the discussion in one thread, so here it is. Thank you for your views. :)

[EDIT]

There's some confusion about the status of the Modiquette and the proposed change to it. To clarify:

The Modiquette has not been posted or discussed forum-wide before now because it was not part of the site's official rules. It was merely a helpful aide for some Civ IV modders, to explain to them the informal approach we've always taken to this kind of thing.

The proposal is to change the Modiquette and make this change part of the rules, applying to everyone, not just Civ IV. Thus, the Modiquette itself will change materially, and its status will also change, if the proposal goes through.

Since this would affect everyone, everyone's being consulted on what they think, including whether they want such a change at all.


- Plotinus
 
"... as long as credit is given"
What, if (for whatever reason) I cannot give credit due to not knowing a certain author? Would my linking/upload be invalid then?
 
This is already the case in practice and it's a great policy that has made CFC a very friendly and creative place compared to some other modding communities, which often have teams that lock their assets. That being said, there's some vagueness in the words "mod" and "use" that could be made more clear.

Mod usually refers to a mod you can install, but not to resources such as units, textures etc. I think the policy should be clear that it refers to all modding assets/resources.

There are some points in the modiquette thread under "Don't copy" and "How we deal with modmods" that I agree with, and in some interpretations of "use" these would be null and void. I think these points are important and moderators should be left with some discretion to deal with cases of rebranding or takeover.

Commercial exploitation, while unlikely, should be excluded just in case, I think.

"... as long as credit is given"
What, if (for whatever reason) I cannot give credit due to not knowing a certain author? Would my linking/upload be invalid then?

Since work is often recycled multiple times through many mods and many joint credit lists, this is indeed common. I think if it's not possible to easily determine the author of a particular unit, leaderhead etc., the least you can do is credit the mod you got it from, e.g. "Omelette LH from the French cuisine mod."
 
First of all, let me say that I am guilty of this discussion...



Is this rule...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_J
Moderator Action:
b) Please adhere to the modding nettiquete:
- Everything which is uploaded to CFC is free to use, under the prerequisite that credit is given (no permission required).

...change to this (New rule)...

Quote:
Any Mod that is developed using CivFanatics resources or is supplied by one of its authors through links in the forums or Downloads database is free to use, without permission, as long as credit is given.

????????
...
Im asking because...
Am I right when I think of the following: (First rule wich is change now)
I have nothing uploadet to the CFC SERVER, i only have a Thread in/on this Forum!
I have uploadet my Mod on rapidshare and filefront!
If you read the Post from the j correcty, only the stuff wich is uploadet to CFC Sever IS FREE TO USE.

Should it be so, undermines this new rule modders free will, who do not want that their work will be used in other mods. I think these free will is the highest good WE have!
Certainly some members will not comprehend my opinion . But there has to be the ability to choose. It is unacceptable that a forum violated the free will of a person...

maybe you should think about where the term "forum" is derived, which function the forum have, for what it is ... and for what not...

Sorry for my english!
 
This is already the case in practice and it's a great policy that has made CFC a very friendly and creative place compared to some other modding communities, which often have teams that lock their assets. That being said, there's some vagueness in the words "mod" and "use" that could be made more clear.

Mod usually refers to a mod you can install, but not to resources such as units, textures etc. I think the policy should be clear that it refers to all modding assets/resources.
I suppose we can assume that separate resources are posted so they can be used in mods. I don't see another reason to publicly publish them :think:

There are some points in the modiquette thread under "Don't copy" and "How we deal with modmods" that I agree with, and in some interpretations of "use" these would be null and void. I think these points are important and moderators should be left with some discretion to deal with cases of rebranding or takeover.

Commercial exploitation, while unlikely, should be excluded just in case, I think.

"Commercial exploitation" is something that should be handled by the civ's franchise owner (in both case: they want to distribute a mod with an expansion of the title, or someone try to sell a product based on civ without their consent)

Maybe we can change "is free to use" by "is free to use in a new mod", to exclude stand-alone games and modmods.

First of all, let me say that I am guilty of this discussion...



Is this rule...



...change to this (New rule)...



????????
...
Im asking because...
Am I right when I think of the following: (First rule wich is change now)
I have nothing uploadet to the CFC SERVER, i only have a Thread in/on this Forum!
I have uploadet my Mod on rapidshare and filefront!
If you read the Post from the j correcty, only the stuff wich is uploadet to CFC Sever IS FREE TO USE.

Should it be so, undermines this new rule modders free will, who do not want that their work will be used in other mods. I think these free will is the highest good WE have!
Certainly some members will not comprehend my opinion . But there has to be the ability to choose. It is unacceptable that a forum violated the free will of a person...

maybe you should think about where the term "forum" is derived, which function the forum have, for what it is ... and for what not...

Sorry for my english!

I don't know what's in your mods, but if it use in any way a resource (part of a mod, units, textures, art) that were posted on CFC, it doesn't seem "right" to use other people work and refuse to let them use your work.

And if your mods are full personnel work, then no one will ever force you to use CFC to advertise it.
 
@Monaldinio

First, the forum cannot violate anyone's free will - everyone has the freedom to not use the forum if its policies are unacceptable for him/her. Likewise, you can't post pornographic materials here, among other things; does it violate your free will as well?

Second, are we having this discussion becase you feel that you should be able to tell others to not re-use your work, while your mod re-uses the work of Maniac and others who made the Planetfall mod, and made it available through this site? That wouldn't be fair at all, no matter where the files are posted.
 
I do not agree that one should be hindered from disallowing use of his work. Personally i want to reserve the right to allow or disallow its use if i please. Making graphics for civ takes time, all my work is by me without any use of other people's creations, and i am not being paid, so if i am not able to have this freedom i will probably just stop making them for this forum.
 
I do not agree that one should be hindered from disallowing use of his work. Personally i want to reserve the right to allow or disallow its use if i please. Making graphics for civ takes time, all my work is by me without any use of other people's creations, and i am not being paid, so if i am not able to have this freedom i will probably just stop making them for this forum.

Thats right, exactly this kind of freedom i talk about. Its not right if the forum make this decission for you...

I don't know what's in your mods, but if it use in any way a resource (part of a mod, units, textures, art) that were posted on CFC, it doesn't seem "right" to use other people work and refuse to let them use your work.

As a Economic law student with a bachelor's conclusion and future master title, I can tell you...it's never about fair or unfair! It's about the principle, you know what I mean????
As an example, the German bank had a profit of € 5 billion last year... and has laid off more than 7000 people... That's not fair...but that's not the point!

It can not be, just because you're logged into a forum, and uses this forum, Individual human rights are curtailed, regardless of it is fair or unfair.
As amerikaniches forum you had to really know it. That's what America universalized in the world... Some call it, democrazy, decide what you want and what not! ...as a German who know his history, i can tell you what's gone wrong with us in the past....
Just because some people have argued exactly this way.

If it is necessary, however, i will leave the forum, close my thread and delate my Accout, to protect my work.

sorry for my english!
 
It can not be, just because you're logged into a forum, and uses this forum, Individual human rights are curtailed, regardless of it is fair or unfair.
Actually, you are not correct in this. This is just a part of what you agreed to when you joined this forum (my emphasis added):
Your agreement with us
You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, racist, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this forum. In addition, if you post at this site, what you post is considered to be in the public domain. Should you choose to leave the forum (or behave in a manner that results in your account being banned), any deletion of your account, or the posts you have made (including attachments) is at the sole discretion of the administrators.
 
I do not agree that one should be hindered from disallowing use of his work. Personally i want to reserve the right to allow or disallow its use if i please. Making graphics for civ takes time, all my work is by me without any use of other people's creations, and i am not being paid, so if i am not able to have this freedom i will probably just stop making them for this forum.
So I was wrong when I thought that units, art and other assets where posted here to be used in mods.

Now I still don't understand why you'll want to post something here then forbid it to be used, can you elaborate ?


As a Economic law student with a bachelor's conclusion and future master title, I can tell you...it's never about fair or unfair! It's about the principle, you know what I mean????
Perfectly.

The principle here, a privately owned forum, is to share the content of the created mods, as it seems to be the best working way for the modding community (and has worked for a decade)
 
I dont want to Share my work, so that another Party use it in another Mod!

Wehre is it written that i agree to shrare my work for Free using?!?

. Quote:
Your agreement with us
You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, racist, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law. You agree Not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this forum. In addition, if you post at this site, what you post is considered to be in the public domain. Should you choose to leave the forum (or behave in a manner that results in your account being banned), any deletion of your account, or the posts you have made (including attachments) is at the sole discretion of the administrators.

Show me the article!

. Now I still don't understand why you'll want to post something here then forbid it to be used, can you elaborate ?

WE want to have the Freedom to say yes or no!!! Is it so hard to understand???

It is Not necessary that you understand why i dont want to Share my work with others so they can use it in another Mod!
Content of my Mod, developt by me, is Not Free to use!
But i think you dont understand the juristic thing, it would be the best i leave this Forum and delate all my stuff!
 
So I was wrong when I thought that units, art and other assets where posted here to be used in mods.

Now I still don't understand why you'll want to post something here then forbid it to be used, can you elaborate ?

You would be right if this was a case of all or nothing. In normal circumstances though one should reserve the right that his work is not used by certain people or mods (double meaning here :D ).

To be more precise, there are three people in the civIII community that i consider to be trolls, and do not want my work used by anything publically released by them, or that it has them on its team. I do not see why this is anathema. I view it as perfectly reasonable given that i spend my own time to make quality work here without any pay.
 
You would be right if this was a case of all or nothing. In normal circumstances though one should reserve the right that his work is not used by certain people or mods (double meaning here :D ).

To be more precise, there are three people in the civIII community that i consider to be trolls, and do not want my work used by anything publically released by them, or that it has them on its team. I do not see why this is anathema. I view it as perfectly reasonable given that i spend my own time to make quality work here without any pay.

That's a reasoning I can understand. I doesn't agree with it, I think personal relations should not interfere in the community as a whole (meaning for me it's really a "case of all or nothing"), but now I understand your point, thanks for the clarification.
 
you want, or can not understand, but that does not matter! I have read the rules. what is a post? a post is one or more written Sentences...

it is not mentioned that my work Is Auto. Free to use! A Post is Free to use, something like that "use 3egs for a Good panecake!" Thats for Free...thats a Post!.
But my Mod isnt a Post! My work isnt a Post, my Design isnt a Post! my ideas are not a post!
All this is my! And isnt Free to use!!!!
 
Content of my Mod, developt by me, is Not Free to use!
(...)
But my Mod isnt a Post! My work isnt a Post, my Design isnt a Post! my ideas are not a post!
All this is my! And isnt Free to use!!!!

It's not all yours. Most of your mod is still Maniac's, Lord Tirian's and other people who created or contributed to Planetfall. It's also Electronic Art's, who hold the copyrights to SMAC and all the SMAC art & sound assets the mod uses. It is a work of many people.

I understand your concern is with the parts that you've added and that are yours. But the way I see it, you took heaps from the modding community and refuse to give back, which isn't in the spirit of CFC. The bad part of me would like to see how your mod would look like without Planetfall code & graphics.
 
  1. Why is a policy discussion that affects the entire site buried in a C2 subforum? No disrespect intended - it would be just as buried in any other version's modding subforums.
  2. The new formal policy may differ from the explicit permissions given by creators who are no longer active on this site. It's troublesome that those permissions may be arbitrarily nullified.
  3. The question of usages posted to/from other sites or for commercial gain is complex & needs to be directly addressed. Having a formal usage policy that is moderated by staff means that the site administration will necessarily be involved.
  4. Does a having a formal policy imply that violations of that policy become infractable?
 
Why is a policy discussion that affects the entire site buried in a C2 subforum? No disrespect intended - it would be just as buried in any other version's modding subforums.
Please read the OP. It is why we posted it in every C&C forum with links to here.
Sorry to redirect you around the site, but we wanted to have all the discussion in one thread, so here it is. Thank you for your views. :)

The new formal policy may differ from the explicit permissions given by creators who are no longer active on this site. It's troublesome that those permissions may be arbitrarily nullified.
It would be very helpful if someone from that forum could put something together the details of what those permissions are/were so we can understand that.

Our intentions are not to nullify anything.

The question of usages posted to/from other sites or for commercial gain is complex & needs to be directly addressed. Having a formal usage policy that is moderated by staff means that the site administration will necessarily be involved.
Perhaps you could expound upon this and provide some info via PM that would help us better understand the point you are trying to make?

Does a having a formal policy imply that violations of that policy become infractable?
If everything on the site is open source, what would there be to infract?
 
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