Proposing a new approach to World Wonders!

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by AxelRhodd, Oct 21, 2012.

  1. AxelRhodd

    AxelRhodd Warlord

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    Hi All

    I think most of us will agree that it is pretty difficult to build the Great Library on Deity.
    This has become even more difficult with G&K expansion. In most of my Deity games the GL is gone by turn 34-37.

    The problem of AI favouring certain wonders has been around since CiV came out and in my opinion this part of the game mechanic is broken. Really, knowing for certain that AI will build GL or other wonders (eg SH) by certain turn makes for predictable and boring gameplay.

    I was thinking of a solution to this problem and would like to hear what others think.
    Perhaps we can arrive at a better system which could be used in CiVI
    I apologise if this has been discussed already but I could not find a similar topic.

    The idea:
    Abandon technology prerequisites for building of World Wonders.
    Any civ can commence building any World Wonder from their CURRENT ERA at any time. Technologies which previously were the prerequisites to the wonders now simply ENHANCE the construction allowing the wonder to be constructed faster.

    So for example the Pyramids can be commenced way before discovery of masonary but once that tech is discovered, the construction accelerates considerably.

    Discuss further?
     
  2. Moriarte

    Moriarte Immortal

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    Computer would still beat you to great library, since it is an important wonder. And while AI is having production bonus and a free worker you can forget about most early wonders. I like your idea to certain extent, but fail to see how is this going to change things. I take it you want the game to be easier for a Deity human player? Experienced Deity players don't really 'need' early wonders to outshine computer (and ther are multiple ways to tackle Dety game), so maybe the game should be harder instead.

    Besides, being able to start building Hubble Telescope from turn 1 sounds like one more step away from reality. :)
     
  3. aaron626

    aaron626 Chieftain

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    The universal solution to a lot of AI problems is the 'random' choice. For example: where a civ that favours military, makes a random choice to focus on cultural growth for X turns. Then with the same random choices for AI in mind, when they are able to build a world wonder that they want, they do a quick check and roll to see if they decide not to construct it.
     
  4. Moriarte

    Moriarte Immortal

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    That is under assumption that GL isn't part of the cultural game, which isn't completely true. For all i know GL is good for science, culture, diplo or domination. Maybe shifting AI focus away from wonder whoring completely in certain cases may be a solution. But then again, they ll produce larger military or will make a leap in cultural direction, which isn't going to make things easier.
     
  5. apocalypse105

    apocalypse105 Deity

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    Just make the AI wonder ajustments random every time So you will have a different game everytime..


    Its a little bit silly that all AI want to built the wonder at chivalry(don't know name) and ignore other wonders like notre dam and so on.....
     
  6. animalguy

    animalguy Ermahgerd

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    Alhambra (hope thats spelled right). Anyway I don't think that this idea will really solve the problem, if anything it will make the AI worse as they will start building wonders from turn one instead of monuments, shrines, scouts etc.

    I prefer apocalypse' suggestion as it will mean some wonders might become buildable, but not certain, like the wonders in later erads.
     
  7. AxelRhodd

    AxelRhodd Warlord

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    Thanks for the feedback.

    @Moriarte
    The HT would not be available from turn 1. Availability of wonders would continue to be era dependant.

    Trying to make game easier for human player at Deity is not the intended goal of this change - rather I want to achieve a situation when building a wonder is achievable and may become part of a player's strategy.
    The reason why many Deity players simply ignore early wonders is because they are hard to build before AI does.

    Thanks for your input and thanks to all for their opinions :)
     
  8. Moriarte

    Moriarte Immortal

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    Well, you either build wonders, or set up a firm foundation, which gives you a consistent chance to win before t.250, when AI usually prepares for launch. Maybe a single early wonder is viable on Deity right now, like pyramids or ToA. If some player starts going after GL, HG, Terracota, ToA and Stonehendge, he will end up with no libraries, granaries, markets, etc @ turn 100. So, no chance for sub 250, no chance to win.. So, even if AI wouldn't prioritize them i wouldn't build most of them anyway, because regular buildings are more important.
     
  9. Danei

    Danei Warlord

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    I had a similar idea, but instead of removing tech requirements, it was to grant a bonus to the production of specific wonders based on specific resources or terrain.

    The pyramids would receive a substantial bonus from each source of stone worked by the city building it. The great library would receive a small bonus from each tile of floodplains worked by the city (that's where papyrus comes from). The hanging gardens could benefit from bananas (representing an abundance of plant life). The terracotta army could receive a small bonus from brown flatlands (where clay pits might be found). I'm sure it'd be possible to come up with plausible things like this for all or most wonders, based on historical or material facts about the wonders.
     
  10. woodshadows

    woodshadows King

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    balance issues aside, i would like to see the whole competition for wonders thing abandoned, it makes no sense. instead have two wonders per civ, make them expensive like a social policy tree, use culture/hammers as the basis for production, which is removed from the culture/production used for social policies/building things, which lets you decide how much of a priority it is to have the wonder. but balance would of course be the downside to this approach, the devs would have to invest considerable amounts of time and testing to make sure things were balanced properly. at least the flavour would be there, china would be guarnateed the great wall, egypt the pyramids, and there wouldn't be that gamble like presently, of possibly losing all that time wasted in trying to get a wonder that an AI gets a turn before you finish.
     
  11. iconocast

    iconocast Prince

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    wonders seem fine to me atm, there is a clear choice between whether to build a wonder or do something else that could be more beneficial to u. its supposed to be difficult/ impossible to build the gl on deity, thats why its called deity
     

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