Prospective Farm Locale

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by wioneo, Jul 23, 2009.

  1. wioneo

    wioneo King

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    I've always had trouble with great person "farm"...having...I just never seem to be able to sacrifice a city for this, so I want to see where a more experienced player would have placed the farm(not restricted to depicted cities) given the same land that I have.

    Please note that about 3 tiles north of sparta was the southernmost French city before the war, so land north of that was not originally available.

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  2. StuntedAzrael

    StuntedAzrael Warlord

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    Pharsalos (if I spelled it correctly). City is surrounded with desert and plains hill which makes it good for production to build The Great library and National epic at least. Floodplains provide needed food with farms for specialists. Also, city is close to your capital so he can be founded as a 2nd city helping with expansion very early.
     
  3. Pindrus

    Pindrus Warlord

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    I often have the same problem, especially when the capitol is often the food-richest city site around. Part of the problem too is that in order to get the most use out of a GPFarm it helps to have it set up and running shortly after researching Lit (NE). I rarely even have calendar for those resources at that point!

    For your game, I would probably say that it should go on the floodplains where Pharsalos is. It has good hammers from phants & hills to get the necessary infra up and running. At size 11 it can work 5 FP farms and the city-center tile for (pre-bio) 22 food, supporting 6 specialists. Even without any food resources 6 spec's is a very respectable number. It would be a versatile site that could work hammers for military/buildings if needed or when not in caste.

    Edit: Didn't see SA's post before mine, so far we have a consensus of 2!
     
  4. wioneo

    wioneo King

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    Really? Do you mean in that same location or around there? I would have thought that the 6 useless tiles, 3 zero food tiles(sanz windmill), and absence of all but one green tile(ponies) were bad things?

    I suppose that I've been looking at these all wrong... That city was actually founded considerably later as part of backfilling.

    EDIT: I always thought of farms as low production sites, but I'm pretty sure that Pharsalos was somewhere enar third or fourth strongest production :lol: and that's with Knossos working the pasture...
     
  5. Pindrus

    Pindrus Warlord

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    Part of the beauty of a GP farm is that it doesn't actually work very many tiles in it's BFC. So you can squish it between other cities and let it cherry-pick the food-heavy tiles or, in this case, put it in a location with a lot of less-useful tiles (like the deserts and flat plains). Having 6 easy specs is huge and more than enough to grab liberalism.
     
  6. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    Ephesus.
     
  7. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

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    This is like showing us a chess game with 6 pieces left on each side and asking, do you think I should have traded rooks at some indeterminate point earlier in the game.

    It's too late to answer the question. How many specialists to run where depends on the situation and goals. Building the National Epic depends on getting Literature and the situtation and goals. If you can't decide what else to do, find a place where you can run 2 scientists and still get some production, never fire the 2 scientists ever, and build the National Epic there whenever you get Literature.
     
  8. ShannonCT

    ShannonCT Deity

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    Usually the best GP farms are conquered AI capitals, because that's where you typically find the most food on the map. Using flood plains for a GP farm is a bit of a waste.
     
  9. wioneo

    wioneo King

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    Hm...I don't understand your meaning here, the land beneath the improvements has not changed(no nukes yet) perhaps I should have stripped away all improvements or something...

    So, are you suggesting that I forego using a farm at all? I'll just try to ignore the bit about literature, seems a bit condescending to assume that i did not know the tech requirement...The 2 scientists with decent production description seems to fit to pretty much every capital from what I've noticed, is it common for people to drop their farms there? I've grown pretty accustomed to aiming at the G Library in my highest production site(which is usually the capitol at that time), and biology is not too far off after scientific method kills it to replace the scientists.
     
  10. wioneo

    wioneo King

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    Oh it is worth noting that there is a fish tile just off to the west of the screenshot, but wouldn't it be difficult to chain farms downt there?
     
  11. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

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    But I didn't say land.

    I don't know. Depends what you mean by a farm. If you mean building the National Epic, then no, but I am suggesting you might get Literature at different times in different games.

    If you mean is it common for people to build the National Epic in their capital, yes.
     
  12. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

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    As an additional remark about Literature and the National Epic in particular (not specialists or great people in general): the succession game Immortal Slavers is an example of a game where - I'm not saying we played perfectly - but where we didn't get Literature until 25 turns before we won, and we didn't build the National Epic until 10 turns before we won. And it was a no cottage game.
     
  13. Grashopa

    Grashopa Emperor

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    I have farmed over towns on floodplains in my capital to GP farm. You have to have a goal though, which means you have to understand what you can do with it in your game. That is what he is getting at. Have you ever bulbed your way to liberalism early? Do you know the GP tech bulbing order? Have you ever settled merchants in a holy city and put wall street there? Have you ever had to run merchants to recover after an early rush?

    Immortal University 28 Isabella has a great GP farm location on the map. Read the game reports.
     
  14. wioneo

    wioneo King

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    Thank you all for your input, from looking at the tiles a bit.

    It looks like for Ephesus it would be best to have the city at size 6, while working the city, clams, fish(13 bread), and mine for 1 surplus food while employing 3 specialists along with 5 production,

    and for Phars it would be best to grow the city to size 11 while working the city, 5 farms(22 food), and stone for 5 specialists(2.5 more post bio) and 6 hammers, is this correct?

    So do people mix merchants along with scientists in their "farms" or just stay in caste system generally? I don't think that I could manage more than 3 scientists until significantly later otherwise...but perhaps I've forgotten something...

    EDIT: I'll go look at that game...
    EDIT:: I usually do not follow these things and am not completely sure how they run. Were you referring to the game that you personally posted or the OPs game?
     
  15. Pindrus

    Pindrus Warlord

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    I think Jet's point was just that it can be difficult to say what you should have done in your game because "GPFarm" can cover a wide variety of cases for cities that produce great people, and what you should be looking to get out of such a city depends greatly on the position that you are in at the moment. Are you going to be changing civics a lot and want to generate a variety of GP's for a couple GA's? Looking to get 3-4 scientists to bulb your way to Lib? Built the pyramids for early Rep and just want to settle lots of any kind of GP? Need to get a GM and a GE to found corps?

    From that perspective I can see how it would be difficult to offer advice and different city sites are even more conducive to some of those goals than others.

    I think the above is also a (non) answer to this question. If you wanted a GM to found a corp, run a trade mission for troop upgrades, etc... then you would obviously run merchants and if you didn't have the market/grocer infra and it was important enough you might run caste.

    Also don't forget that even if you don't have a single super-GPfarm city you can still generate a good number of GP's running just 2 specs in several different cities, which is something that I do occasionally if the situation calls for it.
     
  16. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

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    Those numbers look about right.

    You don't absolutely have to choose between mixing and Caste. Even with only 2 scientists hired you can sometimes get enough GPP from a combination of GL, NE, Pacifism. At least up to a certain point in the game.

    I mix sometimes. Mainly when I have some place good (across water or to the Artemis city) to send the Merchant. But sometimes even without, if I need Slavery and can afford to settle or save any Merchants (such as for a corporation, good point Pindrus), or if I think I'll have a good bulb for a Merchant.

    It's common to dip into Caste just to sprint to Liberalism, especially with Spiritual or more briefly during a GA, for example from the Music Artist.
     
  17. LuiGGi

    LuiGGi Chieftain

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    I'll quote sisiutil's basic strategy guide, just in case it helps the starters like me...

     
  18. wioneo

    wioneo King

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    Ok, thank you guys for your pointers. I guess I was expecting some semi standard idea of farm spammed national epic city based on all of the referrences to great person farms, suppose that's why I never undersatood them.

    EDIT: Just love how that quoted guide pretty much contradicted everyone elses' ideas. No matter...
     
  19. Jet

    Jet No, no, please. Please.

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    No no no, the word farm in the term "great person farm" is in the gaming sense of farm. You are the farmer and your crop is great people.

    "Let's declare war on Monty to farm great generals when he suicides his axemen on our walls."

    "Let's camp at the monster spawn point to farm experience points".
     
  20. slobberinbear

    slobberinbear Ursine Skald

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    What he said. It can also be a great person "fishery," as in the case of Ephesus. The main requirement is a large food surplus, preferably high-yield tiles like fish, irrigated corn, and grassland pigs that give 6 food each early in the game. A two-fish city can grow to size 7 and support five specialists. A really obscene seafood capital (say 5-6 seafood tiles) can support an incredible number of specialists.
     

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