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Protesting foreign archaeologists & missionaries

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by CaptainPatch, Nov 16, 2013.

  1. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    So I've noticed that if I ever send a missionary to convert another civ's cities, or if one of my archaeologists digs up an artifact in another civ's territory, next turn that civ's leader shows up complaining to STOP DOING THAT TO US! You can either say, "Sorry. Won't happen again" or "Buzz off!" Conversely, if another AI civ does the exact same thing to _me_, I can't find a Demand or Discuss option to respond in kind.

    Did I miss seeing where those options are? Or is the game design being deliberately unfair to humans?
     
  2. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    You do have a "stop sending your missionaries" diplo option, but it is only enabled (for you and, on the flip side, for the AI) after 1 city has been converted. It cannot be used preemptively as you see missionaries swarming around.

    Haven't seen a "stop sending archaeologists" diplo option for the human player, but archaeologists can only enter your territory if you have granted open borders or you are already at war with that civ.
     
  3. Jampine

    Jampine Warlord

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    This is another aspect of the AI that isn't too smart. One game, Ethiopia was spreading religion like mad, and despite the fact we where on good terms, they didn't stop when asked(something about me being a heathen or something :/) They also didn't take into account that I was about 3 times larger than them, and had squashed Spain with my larger and more advanced army. Needless to say who got bumped off next :king:
     
  4. joshua43214

    joshua43214 King

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    Never, ever, give open borders to the AI - all it does it help them win.
     
  5. comatosedragon

    comatosedragon Emperor

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    That's my attitude as well. Open borders has to be good for something, though ...
     
  6. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    In BNW, the value of open borders is +25% tourism. (IN BOTH DIRECTIONS)
     
  7. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Only both directions if open borders are reciprocal. If you have OB from the AI, but you've refused to grant OB to the AI, the tourism boost only applies one way -- your tourism is boosted, but not the AI's.
     
  8. CaptainPatch

    CaptainPatch Lifelong gamer

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    Hmm. I thought Open Borders also affected trade in some way. If it's ONLY Tourism, I'm going to have to rethink my Open Borders policy.

    Tangent: I was also going to wail about how my neighbors have been swarming their armies all over my territory (15-20 units), clogging the roads and making it difficult for my Workers to get to where they have work to do. Why swarm all over me? Our diplomatic relations are solid green (positive Diplo modifiers). I'd figure they would either deploy domestically in a defensive posture, or mass near other civs that they keep warring with.
     
  9. joshua43214

    joshua43214 King

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    OB is 25% tourism only in the direction they are open.

    Never grant open borders, it gives them tourism, they dig up your relics, and generally get in your way.
     
  10. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    Unless ofc you want their religion
     
  11. JaeChunDaeSung

    JaeChunDaeSung Prince

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    But don't Prophets and Missionaries still get in regardless because of their Strength?
     
  12. Aenthin

    Aenthin Warlord

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    Open Borders can be a double-edged sword though. I've once opened my borders with Ethiopia and he shared his religion to me. Now the thing is, I have a much, much higher Culture and Tourism than he does. So who paid the price?
     
  13. Smokeybear

    Smokeybear Emperor

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    Prophets can get in regardless of your open borders status, and retain full strength. You can only block them with units or Inquisitors. Missionaries can get into your lands even if you have closed borders, but they will lose 25% strength per turn, while they remain inside your 'closed' borders. Once a missionary has lost 50% or more of their strength, they are pretty useless for doing much conversion. One trick I use, is to place units in the middle of my roads, inside my civ. Missionaries can cover a lot of ground fast and do a lot of damage to your cities if they are free to zip around on your roads... but if you force them to step off the roads to go around a blocking unit, it slows them down a lot and ends up weakening them a lot faster, till they just go 'poof' and die without doing all the damage they might have otherwise.
     
  14. EK834

    EK834 Prince

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    It's only true if their border is open to you. If you sell them open border and theirs isn't open to you, only they get the 25% tourism bonus.

    OB for OB is usually a bad idea. It's better to buy the deal from the AI and sell your side to the AI separately and only on the rare occasions when it's useful or completely neutral
     
  15. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    Other than whichever AI build the World Wonder that spawns several missionaries, it's usually Great Prophets that the AI tries to convert your cities with. There's plenty of reasons to keep your borders closed, but normally it won't matter for religions; you have to build a park a couple of Inquisitors.
     
  16. joshua43214

    joshua43214 King

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    You did, he would have gladly sacrificed armies of missionaries to your closed borders just to spread the Divine Word to a heathen.

    Never open your borders to the AI, they will gift you their religion even when you do not want it.
     
  17. Xiao Xiong

    Xiao Xiong Prince

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    Open borders can be good if you are Indonesia and have built Candi's in all your cities. The more religions you get, the better. So open up borders with one civ, let them spam you, get their religion. Then let another civ spam their religion, and so on. Don't leave them open forever though, you want to shut off their tourism once you got the extra faith production going.

    That faith buys great scientists!

    I also try and choose trade routes as Indonesia so as to spread as many religions to my cities as possible.
     
  18. BUDISMYBUDDY

    BUDISMYBUDDY Chieftain

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    Yea. Sometimes, lets say if i have enough units i will try to completely surround the AI's prophet. Haha i just find it funny. Also putting units all around your city with stop unwanted conversions
     
  19. Aenthin

    Aenthin Warlord

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    Not really. I wasn't really caring much about my own religion as I couldn't compete through faith anyway (I was Assyria). However, with my loads higher tourism score (thanks to Royal Libraries), I was able to dominate him before he was able to got to me through both shared religion and open borders. He even unknowingly did me a favor and helped me dominate Shaka too since he was also spreading his missionaries to him.
     
  20. JaeChunDaeSung

    JaeChunDaeSung Prince

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    I just figure the "Stop sending Missionaries/Prophets" demand is useless if some AI neighbors just spam them regardless.

    Either a future patch makes it so the AI will adhere to this demand, or Prophets should be like Musicians, unable to enter Closed Borders.
     

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