Putin criticizes Soviet founder Lenin, says he put 'time bomb' under the state

[chad187]

MOSCOW -- Russian President Vladimir Putin on Monday criticized Soviet founder Vladimir Lenin, accusing him of placing a "time bomb" under the state, and sharply denouncing brutal repressions by the Bolshevik government.
The harsh criticism of Lenin, who is still revered by communists and many others in Russia, is unusual for Putin, who in the past carefully weighed his comments about the nation's history to avoid alienating some voters.
At the same time, he signalled that the government has no intention of taking Lenin's body out of his Red Square tomb, warning against "any steps that would divide the society."
Putin's assessment of Lenin's role in Russian history during Monday's meeting with pro-Kremlin activists in the southern city of Stavropol was markedly more negative than in the past.
Putin denounced Lenin and his government for brutally executing Russia's last czar along with all his family and servants, killing thousands of priests and placing a "time bomb" under the Russian state by drawing administrative borders along ethnic lines.
As an example of Lenin's destructive legacy, Putin pointed at Donbass, the industrial region in eastern Ukraine where a pro-Russia separatist rebellion flared up weeks after Russia's March 2014 annexation of Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula. More than 9,000 people have been killed in the conflict since April 2014, and clashes have continued despite a February 2015 peace deal.
He said that Lenin and his government whimsically drew borders between parts of the U.S.S.R., placing Donbass under the Ukrainian jurisdiction in order to "increase the percentage of proletariat" in a move Putin called "delirious."
Putin's criticism of Lenin could be part of his attempts to justify Moscow's policy in the Ukrainian crisis, but it also may reflect the Kremlin's concern about possible separatist sentiments in some Russian provinces.
Putin was particularly critical of Lenin's concept of a federative state with its entities having the right to secede, saying it heavily contributed to the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union. "It was a time bomb under our state," he said, adding that Lenin's was wrong in a dispute with Josef Stalin who advocated a unitary state model.
In the past, Putin has denounced Stalin for massive purges that killed millions, but noted his role in defeating the Nazis in the Second World War.
In Monday's comments, Putin also blasted the Bolsheviks for making Russia lose World War I in their quest for power, making Russia suffer defeat by Germany and cede large chunks of territory just months before it lost the First World War. "We lost to the losing party, a unique case in history," Putin said.
Putin said he sincerely believed in Communist ideology when he served in the KGB, adding that while promises of a fair and just society in the Communist ideology "resembled the Bible quite a lot" but the reality was different. "Our country didn't look like the City of the Sun," envisaged by socialist utopians, he said.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/putin-c...ys-he-put-time-bomb-under-the-state-1.2750845

Interesting.... Thoughts? Glad hes keeping Lenin in the mausoleum!

 

[SLAAKMAN]

He should deploy Lenins corpse into the sewer.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Putin was particularly critical of Lenin’s concept of a federative state with its entities having the right to secede , saying it has heavily contributed to the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union. He added that Lenin was wrong in a dispute with Joseph Stalin, who advocated a unitary state model. Putin has in the past denounced Stalin for the purges that killed millions, but noted his role in defeating the Nazis in the second world war.

In Monday’s comments, Putin also criticised the Bolsheviks for making Russia suffer defeat at the hands of Germany in the first world war and ceding large chunks of territory just months before it lost. “We lost to the losing party, a unique case in history,” Putin said.

Putin said he sincerely believed in Communist ideology when he served in the KGB, adding that while its promises of a fair and just society “resembled the Bible quite a lot”, the reality was different. “Our country didn’t look like the City of the Sun” envisaged by socialist utopians, he said.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ses-lenin-of-placing-a-time-bomb-under-russia

I summon red_elk who ridiculed and dismissed my "Stalin time Bombs" as trolling.

Russia was only winning against Austria, Germany was beating Russians in the East everywhere, the Russian very poor internal problems, famine, break down of society caused the Russian homefront to collapse. If the Russians had kept fighting just on the defensive and not try to forment communist revolutions everywhere history would have of course been different.

Russia should just have kept the Tzar, no need for entire Stalin, Stalin allying with Hitler, cold war, breakup and now back to Tzar again. Would have been much simpler (Is joke, history repeats)

 

[luiz]

Putin has a different speech for each crowd he speaks to, and for each message he wants to send. He can praise or criticize Lenin, Stalin, the Czars, anyone, depending on who he's talking to and what point he's trying to get across.

That said, considering Lenin ceded large chunks of territory that Russians acquired with much blood throughout centuries, and plunged the country in a fratricidal Civil War that made the days of the Czar look like a prosperous golden age, it's no wonder Russian nationalists have a negative view of him.

 

[warpus]

Putin was particularly critical of Lenin's concept of a federative state with its entities having the right to secede, saying it heavily contributed to the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union.

Ahh the breakup of the Soviet Union, aka the best day ever.

All praise Lenin!

 

[LamaGT]

These articles fail to mention why he would talk about these things all of a sudden. In any case it doesn't seem like anything revolutionary, the situation we're in today has its roots in what Lenin did, and he's just calling it out.

Ahh the breakup of the Soviet Union, aka the best day ever.

All praise Lenin!

If anyone's to praise it's Gorbachev, he single-handedly threw the state in the trash. His ineptness has also led to thousands of deaths and widespread misery in the post-Soviet states, so it was hardly "the best day ever".

 

[warpus]

Sometimes it takes some misery to get rid of misery elsewhere. The downfall of the Soviet Union was bound to lead to pain and suffering, it was sort of inevitable.

 

[Oerdin]

I am not surprised to see a dictator like Putin trying to talk up a unitary state in which, of course, he would be in total control.

 

[warpus]

You know Putin is tugging it to Darth Vader when nobody's looking, much like Kylo Ren.

 

[Azale]

Sometimes it takes some misery to get rid of misery elsewhere. The downfall of the Soviet Union was bound to lead to pain and suffering, it was sort of inevitable.

It absolutely was not. What a bunch of crap, and an easy out for the people who put in place shock therapy (just to start with).

It's like saying industrialization was bound to lead to pain and suffering, but was inevitable (and necessary) so Stalin should get a free pass.

 

[warpus]

If you lay out a half-plausible scenario in which the Soviet Union falls apart in the early 90s with no negative repercussions for ex-Soviet citizens.. I'm all ears.

 

[red_elk]

Half-plausible scenario without negative repercussions for Soviet citizens is where the Soviet Union doesn't fall apart.

 

[Lord of Elves]

@azale, as much as I agree that "shock therapy" was not the morally unambiguous Good Thing it is usually presented as, I kinda agree with warpus that there's no situation in which anything like the present-day Russian Federation emerges from the collapse of the USSR without significant economic problems. That's not to say that the present-day Russian Federation or anything resembling it is a desirable outcome

 

[Dachs]

That said, considering Lenin ceded large chunks of territory that Russians acquired with much blood throughout centuries, and plunged the country in a fratricidal Civil War that made the days of the Czar look like a prosperous golden age, it's no wonder Russian nationalists have a negative view of him.

Interesting misdiagnosis. I think you'll find that most hardcore Russian nationalists don't really blame Lenin for the civil war, and they don't care that much about the temporary loss of Ukraine and Belorussia (or even the permanent loss of Poland and Finland). If they hate him for anything, they usually hate him for korenization. The quoted speech actually mentioned this quite explicitly.

As an example of Lenin's destructive legacy, Putin pointed at Donbass, the industrial region in eastern Ukraine where a pro-Russia separatist rebellion flared up weeks after Russia's March 2014 annexation of Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula. More than 9,000 people have been killed in the conflict since April 2014, and clashes have continued despite a February 2015 peace deal.

He said that Lenin and his government whimsically drew borders between parts of the U.S.S.R., placing Donbass under the Ukrainian jurisdiction in order to "increase the percentage of proletariat" in a move Putin called "delirious."

Putin's criticism of Lenin could be part of his attempts to justify Moscow's policy in the Ukrainian crisis, but it also may reflect the Kremlin's concern about possible separatist sentiments in some Russian provinces.

Putin was particularly critical of Lenin's concept of a federative state with its entities having the right to secede, saying it heavily contributed to the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union. "It was a time bomb under our state," he said, adding that Lenin's was wrong in a dispute with Josef Stalin who advocated a unitary state model.

Putin also mentioned Lenin's anticlericalism, which is another Thing to Hate for modern Russian ultras.

 

[warpus]

People are quick to forget that it could have been a LOT worse for the people involved.

Having said that, what matters in the end that the Soviet Union is no more and that we can rejoice.

 

[plarq]

People are quick to forget that it could have been a LOT worse for the people involved.

Having said that, what matters in the end that the Soviet Union is no more and that we can rejoice.

And it has not much to do with Lenin, though.

 

[warpus]

Maybe yes, maybe not, I was just responding to someone who thinks so.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Half-plausible scenario without negative repercussions for Soviet citizens is where the Soviet Union doesn't fall apart.

Stalin time bombs exploding and plunging Russia into a bloody civil war was far more plausible. There was mass demonstrations and protest in Baltic states, in the caucuses, in the eastern Europe. Followed by armed insurrection in the caucuses there were blockaids, storming of borders and mass shooting in Georgia, and Latvia.

The fact the Russians felt like they were doing a great service, subsidizing and governing seems to be self delusional or denial.
Former soviet Countries that joined the "west" have done well, countries that have borders with Russia, not so much