Putin still in charge?

[Pannonius]

I hope Putin will remain in charge. Maybe he'll run for president in 2012?

 

[RedRalph]

I'd say theres a very strong chance, or if Belarus and Russia merge he may become President of that Union.

 

[Shekwan]

They sure are into him over there. Apparently he's a sex symbol in Russia, and the embodiment of an ideal man...

 

[CheScott]

No, not proof or anything like it. I'm talking about events that have happened within Medvedev's presidency. Putin was Yeltsin's understudy, owed him almost his entire political carrer. do you think that means he was Yeltsin's puppet?

If there were any proof that were redilly available to the public, at large, then Medvedev's presidency would not be taken seriously by the international community.

If there were proof that he were only a figurehead, then he would be removed and replaced by someone who could not be shown to be such. And then you would be asking what proof this hypothetical person is nothing but a figurehead.

The inability to prove his subordinative status is a prerequisite.

More than anything, it seems to me that you are spoiling for a fight to show everyone else how stupid they are, because they cannot prove something that cannot be proven.

I believe it, but do not know it and do not claim to have proof. I believe it, because that is my impression of Putin's character and because of his behavior in the twilight of his leadership, and because, in the end, it doesn't have much effect on me. So going with my gut is just as relevant as feverishly researching something to prove a point to some guy on the internet.

 

[skadistic]

They sure are into him over there. Apparently he's a sex symbol in Russia, and the embodiment of an ideal man...

He is. Have you seen that man fish? Pure hawtness.

 

[Winner]

Its a commonly held and rarely challenged view that Putin is still in charge in Russia and Medvedev is merely a puppet. people cite the fact that Medvedev said he would continue Putin's policies, in the Us that is an unuusual thing for a new Prez to say but its quite common in Ireland and the UK, and AFAIK hardly unique in Europe in general.

so what evidence or even arguments do people have to support Putin still pulling the strings? Is it just an assumption or is there anyhting to back it up?

Ah, RedRalph asking for evidence where no clear evidence can be found. I am the only one who sense the déja vu?

Putin had immense political power, which stemmed not from the office he was holding, but his personality. Such a power does not disappear overnight, it's reasonable to assume that Putin still holds most of it. If he was finished, if he had lost all the power, he wouldn't have become premier, not in Russia, which is known for its palace coups and backstabbing byzantine-style politics.

Medvedev is a figure, a friendly face for the outside world, while Putin is the one who holds the real, informal power. It might change in time, history is full of examples of puppets who became independent and deposed the puppetmaster, but now it's clear who's pulling the strings.

Of course the RedRalphs here won't accept any such explanation...

 

[LightFang]

Well, he buys into a very specific and impossible epistemology for this particular question, requiring absolutely incontrovertible proof when in all other walks of his life he needs no such thing.

 

[History_Buff]

You see, Ecofarm pointed out that Putin had rank over Medvedev while they were both in the KGB!

The KGB man! K-G-FREAKIN-B!

KGB!

Isn't it obvious?

KGB! Communists! Bogeymen! OOOO!





(For the record, I'm confident that either Putin is still in power, or Medvedev is just Putin Jr policy-wise, so it doesn't really make any difference. I just wanted to point out how rediculous of an argument that was. Also, we need some sort of Bogeyman smiley.)

 

[RedRalph]

OK, none of you understand the question properly, so maybe I didnt phrase it right. I'm not saying Putin isnt pulling the strings. Nobody with half a brain would deny he is at the very least still strongly influential. what I'm looking for is something other than one of ye saying "well ghes very influential so he must still be in power" or "come on, its obvious". If it is so obvious, then you should be able to point to something other than how obvious it is... Jesus...

Heres the type of thing I'm looking for. as per the OP, it dosent have to be proof, but just somethign to back your opinion up that isnt in itself an opinion. for example... has Medvedev enacted any policies that were very obviously Putins, which may have contradicted Medvedev's positions before he was elected? Has Putin appeared to overrule Medvedev on any issue thusfar in his presidency? Has Medvedev shown any subservience to Putin since winning the election?

thats what I'm looking for, not "well duhh RRW, Lulz you are such a commie its obvious Putin is in power and not Medvdevdevdev ZOMG!!!!"

 

[bathsheba666]

OK, none of you understand the question properly, so maybe I didnt phrase it right.

Oh my, aren't we dense...

Heres the type of thing I'm looking for. as per the OP, it dosent have to be proof, but just somethign to back your opinion up that isnt in itself an opinion. for example... has Medvedev enacted any policies that were very obviously Putins

Yes he agreed to be nominated as Putin's puppet.

which may have contradicted Medvedev's positions before he was elected?

If Medvedev had any contradictory policies before he was elected,
he wouldn't have been nominated.

Has Putin appeared to overrule Medvedev on any issue thusfar in his presidency?

No, clearly Putin chose well..
(...........and Russia endorsed his choice......)

Has Medvedev shown any subservience to Putin since winning the election?

Yes, Putin is still a free man.

thats what I'm looking for, not "well duhh RRW, Lulz you are such a commie its obvious Putin is in power and not Medvdevdevdev ZOMG!!!!"

I think at least one ZOMG is due here..

 

[RedRalph]

bathsheba you are just trolling now, please just get lost, you are repeating the same thing again and agian, you have nothing but your own assumptions to go on but you cant admit it. If you think the question is ridiculous then stop trying to answer it.

 

[holy king]

premise of this thread:

i believe putin is still pulling the strings, but can anyone show me proof?

answers:

it's obvious, what kind of proof do you want, there wont be a smoking gun.




i think this thread failed way more than the usual one.

 

[RedRalph]

The thing is I amnt even exclusively looking for proof, just something which suggests that his actions are being controlled by Putin. His actual action, not the relationship between them.

 

[philippe]

Will Putin survive the test of time?

 

[Hadesspirit]

No need to talk about his actions.Everyone knows the situation.
Putin must get bored of talking in front of the audience so he gave up but inot in real.

 

[JerichoHill]

Fair enough, thats the type of thing I'm looking for. However he is a very short time in the job, so I wouldnt count it as proof.

I would count it as proof. Most new administrations do not keep nearly every single member of the old administration. Medvedev did so. See, RRW, you obviously want to believe the opposite, so even when I put in a fair point you find a way to dismiss it (in a rather fallacious way too).

Further, I pointed to a weblink where Medvedev explicitly states that he will continue the policies of Putin and seek Putin's guidance.

It's like when George H.W. Bush became President. He kept most of Reagan's staff, changed little of Reagan's policies, and ipso facto governed like Reagan. There was no real change in government operations.

 

[JerichoHill]

The thing is I amnt even exclusively looking for proof, just something which suggests that his actions are being controlled by Putin. His actual action, not the relationship between them.

If you really wanted to dig into it, you would do it yourself rather than rely on other web posters who have also other things to do with their time (as do you).

Do you speak or read Russian/Ukrainian? If so, then I could send some scanned newspapers talking about "Little Putin" as Medvedev is called by the press there. (I happen to speak decent Russian)

 

[RedRalph]

I would count it as proof. Most new administrations do not keep nearly every single member of the old administration. Medvedev did so. See, RRW, you obviously want to believe the opposite, so even when I put in a fair point you find a way to dismiss it (in a rather fallacious way too).

Further, I pointed to a weblink where Medvedev explicitly states that he will continue the policies of Putin and seek Putin's guidance.

It's like when George H.W. Bush became President. He kept most of Reagan's staff, changed little of Reagan's policies, and ipso facto governed like Reagan. There was no real change in government operations.

Yes he did, my point exactly, yet no one claimed Reagan was still in charge. I have at no point claimed Putin is not still influential, only an idiot would say that, but thats not the same thing. People are saying he is the de facto ruler of the country, not just influential. you havent proved anyhtig JH, but you have at least attampted to back up your opinions, which is more than most people (come on, you know full well nothing you posted PROVES Putin is still in charge).

 

[RedRalph]

If you really wanted to dig into it, you would do it yourself rather than rely on other web posters who have also other things to do with their time (as do you).

Do you speak or read Russian/Ukrainian? If so, then I could send some scanned newspapers talking about "Little Putin" as Medvedev is called by the press there. (I happen to speak decent Russian)

no I cant speak eithe rlanguage, and dont troll me man, anybody could look up most of the stuff they start threads over, I'm looking for stuff to back up other people's opinions, I'm hardly going to do that myself. JH we all know you have an issue with Putin, I respect that you actually have tried to back uop your opinions, and done a reasonable job of it, but please dont try and pretend you have proved anyhting, you havent. and dont presume my motives either, because I have already said I dont even neccesarily think Putin isnt still in charge.

 

[blackheart]

So exactly what kind of proof are you looking for here? Putin to take Mendevev's teacup from him and drink from it?