Pyramids?

[OTAKUjbski]

I don't know anybody has done something as silly as me. I built the Pyramid, but realized my Oracle was a few turns away so I didn't switch civic. Then I totally forgot its presence until I researched Monarchy.

I've done that too many times to admit.

I've even forgetten to switch civics when I built it -- regardless of what other wonders I have going, lol.

 

[axident]

I've noticed (at Noble and Prince at any rate...) that the AI will often ignore the Pyramids for a long, long, time. I've managed to build them as late at 1000AD before! Seeing as they never expire, it's a good investment by then - less than 10 turns.

I've had success with the Great Wall, as it comes sooner than Forges, although only 1GPP. However for a non-Mysticism Civ it's probably a better bet than The Oracle, which the AI-with-Marble will usually gobble up right away on any level. If you want to hedge your bets and get a quicker GP, build a library and run a Scientist for a bit. In fact I very rarely try for The Oracle.

I agree. Oracle is good for slingshots, though, such as Oracle-Metal Casting-GE/Pyramids, but I'm usually not next to marble, and even so I'm busy with other techs and can't to Oracle in time to build it.

 

[EmperorFool]

^^ That's known as "gettingold"

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Great Wall? If you're philosophical I can see it working, sort of. But I don't even think it's necessarily worth it. I do believe the pyramids is overrated, and I am one of those "build axeman" theorists.

Contrary to popular belieft, it's actually quite easy to get it through mad chopping, but the oppertunity cost, the delaying of the 2nd and 3rd city, are too great.

 

[Dirk1302]

It's all situational, If i'm philosophical and see early stone then i'll give pyramids a try if there are lots of forests around. If i have marble or begin with mysticism i always think oracle but only in second city because i hate to pollute capitals GL NE synergy. Idea is to get monarchy from oracle early for the happiness. Without marble or stone i think these wonders are just too expensive. Gambits like Oracle - MC or GW-pyramids gambit are always a gamble on emperor/immortal.

 

[kniteowl]

There was One time where nobody Built the Pyramids by the Time I got Mathematics and Monotheism, I was Industrious and Had Stone connected, and was running Organized Religion.

So... 30* 175% = 82H per chop, and the Pyramids were worth 500H, so I only required to chop 5-6 Forest, which would take 12 turns with a stack of 3 Workers, 6 turns with Fast workers.

I'd say it's worth the gamble at that point in the game, under those circumstances, but most of the time you shouldn't build them because they're just way too big an investment in the early game, where Land > Pyramids.

 

[Stumpy123]

I am somewhat new to the concept of rushing to get the Pyramids by either building it outright or using something like the Oracle and Metal Casting. I have tried a few games (not all the way through, though) using a specialist economy; the effect of representation through the pyramids in increasing science output and happiness is a brutal combination in the early game. Anyone who has not tried this before should give it a try.

Anyhow, I think the real power in a specialist economy is the great scientists; between lightbulbing, the academies, and the super specialists, they can do wonders for you and your empire. This is especially true for philosophical civs. Even so, the Pyramids are a great help, but getting them would be very difficult at the high levels (I'm only a Noble-Prince level player), at least without leaving yourself open to get beat up by the AI civs. Again, each situation, and more importantly, each player is different; it all depends on the start you get and how expansive or warlike you are.

 

[Kietharr]

The Pyramids not only let you access all of the government civics in the BCs, but you save beakers (or gold, techs, ect) from not having to aquire constitution or democracy. I guess if you need jails later on, or SoL, but the civics are the main features of those otherwise extremely important techs. You can stand to ignore them for quite awhile if you don't want the statue.

Oracle is wonderful for its own reasons, especially because it's really cheap early on, so you can do the oracle-metal casting-pyramid gambit for those later levels when it's harder to beat the AI to them with brute force. It also has the potential of giving you a religion if you missed the 3 early ones, along with early courthouses if you're trying to expand fast.

 

[eldar]

The Pyramids not only let you access all of the government civics in the BCs, but you save beakers (or gold, techs, ect) from not having to aquire constitution or democracy.

1. The AI won't ignore Democracy, try ignoring it yourself when 3-4 citizens per city get angry and start demanding Emancipation.
2. Statue of Liberty. By the time Demo comes around, you've either won the game or are likely to have a city able to build it quickly enough.

 

[KMadCandy]

I don't know anybody has done something as silly as me. I built the Pyramid, but realized my Oracle was a few turns away so I didn't switch civic. Then I totally forgot its presence until I researched Monarchy.

at least twice i've forgotten to change to bur when i researched CS. i think i was waiting since i was building a wonder or something and didn't want to lose it due to anarchy turns. once i remembered not as quick as i should have, but not too much later. one of those times was a recent medeival start, quick speed. i kept wondering why my capital sucked so badly, even with an academy. finally on turn 160, out of 320, i am NOT KIDDING, i realized my blunder. this was on prince level. if there was a court jester level i really should have moved down to it for my next game *giggle*. don't tell anybody ok? even for a permanoob that is bad!!!!!!

 

[Vulcans]

i wonder if going emancipation with the pyramids is a good idea.
the +100% cottage/hamlet/village growth from very early on will give you VERY early towns! you'll have a thriving economy in the medievil ages!
and then the for the rest of the civilisations is a bonus.

maybe representation, beurocracy, emancipation, merchantism, pacivism would be a good pyramid combination.

then when the towns come in the later game (medievil ages?) switch to free speech, US & environmentalism with big cities(lux etc) and developed towns due to early pyramid induced emancipation.

 

[futurehermit]

Go for pyramids if you have stone and/or you are industrious. Early representation is a game-breaker both in terms of the happiness but especially in terms of the doubling of your research while running a specialist economy.

 

[Vulcans]

Go for pyramids if you have stone and/or you are industrious. Early representation is a game-breaker both in terms of the happiness but especially in terms of the doubling of your research while running a specialist economy.

yes, i know rep is a no brainer. i was just initiating a discussion about the other civics. you can chose 5 civics, not only rep.

 

[Perugia]

i wonder if going emancipation with the pyramids is a good idea.
the +100% cottage/hamlet/village growth from very early on will give you VERY early towns! you'll have a thriving economy in the medievil ages!
and then the for the rest of the civilisations is a bonus.

maybe representation, beurocracy, emancipation, merchantism, pacivism would be a good pyramid combination.

then when the towns come in the later game (medievil ages?) switch to US & environmentalism with big cities and developed towns due to early pyramid induced emancipation.

Sorry, the pyramids only allow you to choose Government Civics ie Hereditary Rule, Representation, Police State or Universal Suffrage.

When I first bought the game I also thought the Pyramids would let you choose from all civics (a bit like it allowed all govenments in CivII) but once I built it I realised what it "All Government Civics" actually means.

I'd also like to add that if you have the spiritual trait, Pyramids becomes much more powerful as you can switch to Police State to build your military (+25% military unit producition) before going to war and switch to Universal Suffrage for cash rushing. Then back to Representation. No turns are lost to anarchy you just have to wait 5 turns to change civics again.

Also if you have enough forests then there is no gamble in going for Pyramids all you have to do is pre-chop all the forests required. Then when all are ready spread your workers around and chop all the forests in a single turn. If the AI beats you then you have not wasted anything and all the forests remain in place ready to chop in a single turn as required.

This is easier to pull off if you are India otherwise it wastes worker turns except on tiles that need roads.

 

[Vulcans]

That's a pity, i would have loved to have emancipation in the ancient age.
But i guess that'd be way overpowered.

well rep alone is probably worth the effort, even though i'm not really into the specialists besides the GP farm, so only really favor representation after mercantilism. HR rocks with mobile happiness warriors

 

[futurehermit]

yes, i know rep is a no brainer. i was just initiating a discussion about the other civics. you can chose 5 civics, not only rep.

well, if i'm spiritual i'll go back and forth between rep and police state. works great. her rule is kinda pointless when you have access to rep. so that leaves US. kinda hard to use US early on imho. you don't have many towns and you don't have a lot of dough to be rush-buying stuff...

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I like the switch to US when markets, grocers and banks are available, drop to 0% research, and rush buy them tactic with a spiritual leader.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

I like the switch to US when markets, grocers and banks are available, drop to 0% research, and rush buy them tactic with a spiritual leader.

I prefer simply to birth a Great Merchant. It's amazing what 1000 can do for all of your Axemen the 1st turn you can build Macemen.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

even if you could run emancipation, the ai seems to kinda ignore happiness... don't know how, but on high lvls., they war with each other for turns without end(could do that with high culture), but they still research at a decent pace...

I've noticed that best bet is, after you ensured you have SoL in your pocket, to trade demo right away, because, again... the ai seems to simply ignore the happiness penality(or else I can't explain the 27 pop city he had, after we were warring for many turns, after I had emancipation for many turns, and that while he kept researching at a decent rate - was a cross continent invasion, so the war took a while...)

 

[itsnotmeee]

i'd rather use the extra gold to upgrade my veteran and existing units than using it to rush buy.