Pyramids

[cliff]

Originally posted by sethos
HG + Colossus in one CIty will beat Pyramids

Yes. I doubt that HG + Colossus will beat HG + Pyramids though. Having both HG and Pyramids early in the game means that very fast expansion is possible. Size 2 cities should shift their workers to forrest to produce 5 shields and produce Settlers. With HG, a cheap martial law warrior may be needed in some cities before they grow to size 2 but after that Settlers should be built right away.

Now, everything is fine until the Settler is built. How long will it take to build a new Settler in the same city? It depends on when it will grow back to size 2. This is the most important factor. With Pyramids, the city gets 15 food for free in the food box when it grows to size 2 so only 5 more is needed to grow back to size 2 after building the Settler. This greatly improves the expansion rate potential. Additionally, cities will reach size 3 faster when Pyramids are built early, so WLTPD growth can start early in more cities. These cities can also build and deliver caravans later in the game, enabling more commodities to be traded and increasing overall trade.

 

[woke26]

in the settings i play (deity 1x1x island games) i find piramids very usefull. but it is mostly the last ancient wonder i go for. hg + piramids is almost an unstoppable strategy though, because you can expand very fast, while your opponents can not. hg + piramids can give you easily 2 times more cities then your opponent.
if your opponent has hg, i find piramids a good equilizer. my ancient wonder sequence is mostly:
1. lighthouse
2. hg
3. colossus
4. piramids.

in deity 1x1x i dont find WLTPD so powerfull. you will need to have much irrigations and hg or colossus with good trade routes. before you have your irrigations up in most your cities, wltpd costs you too much science or gold. staying in king with piramids is saver and more efficient.

 

[Marlos]

Love them Pyramids! I hate when I don't get them (usually in MP). But if you have enough patience to wait until SoL arrives, then you can go Democracy, grow, switch to Communism, build vet spies, switch to Fundamentalism and take over them Pyramids!

 

[ElephantU]

The Pyramids greatest value is in the early game, before Republic and WLTCD becomes an option. Getting those early cities to grow faster under an extended Monarchy can be valuable, using martial law to control unhappiness. More planning needs to be done for happiness control under Rep/Dem, so growth is often better done in controlled spurts where you can juggle Lux rates and Entertainers to make select cities grow fast.

I do like the Pyramids as a building distraction for the AI civs, though. And I really like it when one of them finally builds it and the rest switch to Great Wall or Great Library. Occasionally, though, one of the civs who lost out on Pyramids switches to Colossus, and then I have to rush that one because I really want it in my SSC but I was too busy getting Marco Polo or Shakespeares. That can be frustrating.

 

[Ace]

Size counts! Even at diety level. Having HG and Col in your SSC does not help much if the city is only at size 3 or 4! It really shows up if the SSC is much bigger. After all, each hex only produces IF it is being worked!!

 

[ElephantU]

In the beginning I am ICSing my cities: grow to 2, make a settler, regrow. Once I have found a spot for the SSC I often exclude it from the ICS pattern, using other cities settlers to start the terrain improvements. I am teching for Monarchy, Trade, Philosophy, and Medicine as quickly as possible. Lately I have been avoiding Pottery because of its effect of increasing Salt caravans. When I get Shakespeares up in my SSC I try to be ready to WLTCD, so I need Republic, Construction, and Sanitation, sometimes Banking as well. If things work out well I can go from an SSC of size 3/4 around 500BC to size 23 by 1AD. The trick is to stay tight on techs, cities and production and to rush caravans as soon as you get Trade. The only detour I allow from this general strategy is to build Marco Polo to see where the other civs are, pacify them, and see if they have anything that can speed me along. A few early caravans (like from the SSC) will go overseas for extra cash; the rest go into wonders.

My point is that size matters later, and I prioritize exploring, planting cities, and improving the SSC first, followed by carefully controlled WLTCD growth. I am usually playing at Deity (except GOTMs), so happiness is my biggest constraint on early growth.

 

[Trev]

I like to maximise expansion in the early turns of the game and find that pyramids are very good for that, as also HG and sometimes Oracle. The combination of HG and Oracle is very useful for early WLTPD's on republic gov't, and pyramids assist this as well. In a game with a large number of players I also like the GL as I then switch science to zero until it is cancelled and use the money to rush build improvements in all cities, so that when it is cancelled I have the most developed civ that can dominate technologically and economically

 

[The Person]

I never go for SSC, though I'm sure I'll try it once. But Pyramids just rocks. What's important in the early stages is expansion, expansion, expansion. A lot of cities weighs up the loss of SSC.

 

[mangor420]

in the time you spend building the pyramids 200 shields i can build 5 citys make men in them and come take pyramids from yo u. only build wonders with caravans or you are a sitting duck

 

[sethos]

I'll get Republic and Democracy much earlier with Colossus and HG. It will take only some turns to bring my cities to size 8 or 12. And what do you think builds a settler faster - a size 2 city with pyramids or a size 8 city without them?
In nearly all my games I don't build the pyramids - it's much easier to conquer them.

 

[harperbruce]

The above glyph means it's a question of balance. If you're running a style of government where you can maintain order relatively easily and quickly (add another soldier), or you have enough "happy pill" wonders to keep all those extra citizens satisfied, build the Pyramids. But if the constant fast population explosion keeps tipping you into unrest or anarchy, I'd postpone the Pyramids, let someone else build them...and keep a record of where it is. After you have things stable enough to keep the hordes of citizens content, conquer or subvert that city and invest it with as much soldiery as possible to keep it secure.

I think I've been doing better by postponing building granaries until my cities have other developments, particularly science and happiness goodies, built up. Then I go for population increase. Yeah, more population means more shields, faster building of improvements, etc. But I'm gathering that most people in here go for fast trade buildup first, trying to outstrip the AI in tech development; even building tons of settlers to hold population down until they get developent in other areas ramped up. If that's the case, trade like crazy, and let pop increase take a back seat until you have many caravans on the road. Then build the resources to feed more hungry mouths.

Of course, this is all subject to tactical needs; strategy is the long-term, but immediate tactics (emergency city needs for population hunger, etc.) sometimes dictate another approach. Never let your strategy totally control your tactics.

 

[Terrapin]

Yeah, as both Sethos and H.Bruce said, I too am likely to conquer rather than build the Pyramids. The ai usually goes for them first among all wonders, so the happiness/stability criteria essentially never exist for building the Pyramids in time to beat the ai's to the punch. At Prince and lower, happiness issue are much less constaining, plus the ai is a lot slower to get any WoWs built, so I have, at times, built them in the early game.

 

[Ace]

On Diety level, its pretty hard to beat the ai to the pyramids. On the other hand, building the pyramids keeps the ai busy while you are getting Colossus and HG! I used to always try to get the pyramids until I learned to grow my population with WLTPDs. Now I rarely build granaries, let alone the pyramids. The only place a granary really helps is in a city in bad terrain with only, say, one extra food. Than a granary will get your city to size 3 faster so it can start growing by celebrating.

Another trick, which works well in democracy, is to send out 3 settlers/engineers to start a new city. Use one to found the city, than add the other two into it to have an instant size 3 city. using this method, a brand new city will be size 8 in 5 or 6 turns!

 

[cdscivnut]

I like the pyramids a lot. That and the colossus are normally the first two I will go for. I can't stand building granaries and supporting them early on and I would rather just build the pyramids. I never have been a big nut of Hanging Gardens but I probably will have to learn to like it. I am fairly new to the game and haven't attempted higher than King level but I plan to soon.

 

[rponton]

I almost always build pyramids very quick. Since I consider myself a wonder hog (always trying to beat the AI to all wonders) I usually build it first, just because the AI values it so highly. I also like it because of it's obvious value early in the game, and it never expires.

 

[sethos]

I sometimes "push" the AI to build the pyramids giving them the needed tech - so I can build more important wonders.

 

[atawa]

I usualy dont build pyramids, that early in the game the 4 caravans will give me 4 new techs and a ****load of money.