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Pyrezombies: Imbalanced?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by PotatoOverdose, Feb 9, 2009.

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Are Pyre Zombies Imbalanced? Do they Need a nerf.

  1. Yes, Pyre zombies are imbalanced and need a nerd.

    35 vote(s)
    28.5%
  2. No, Pyre zombies are not imbalanced and do not need a nerf.

    76 vote(s)
    61.8%
  3. Other (Formally the "I Like Pie" option, please explain)

    12 vote(s)
    9.8%
  1. PotatoOverdose

    PotatoOverdose Prince

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    Seeing as there is another thread with an active discussion taking place, I was simply curious what the community at large feels on the subject. Are Pyre Zombies Imbalanced? Are they fine? Do they need a nerf? Your thoughts, please.

    Edit: Curse it, a typo in the first option.
     
  2. Neomega

    Neomega Deity

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    They need a better counter, not necessarily a nerf. Like spring stopping their explosions for a couple of turns.
     
  3. Seven05

    Seven05 Warmonger

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    All units need a nerd, without them we wouldn't have video games, computers... erm, nevermind.

    Oh, and on a more serious note, I've already nerfed them myself, I just don't use them like I could. I hate doing that though. The AI, on the other hand, doesn't abuse them so there's not an issue with that so much.
     
  4. Master_Hugian

    Master_Hugian Warlord

    Joined:
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    I see Pyre Zombies as a bit to powerful, mainly as there seems to be no damage cap limit. To me it is similar to how Ring of Fire was of old, but a bit more expensive. Yes you can pick them of one by one, but if there stack gets to your city then you are done for. There is a counter to them, but it requires Mages which come a long time after Pyre Zombies.
     
  5. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

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    If you don't like to play against Pyre Zombies, then set up a game without the Sheiam. They seem fine as designed to me.

    Oh yeah...I like pie!
     
  6. Neomega

    Neomega Deity

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    well in the hands of the AI, they are pretty much useless.
     
  7. zup

    zup Emperor

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    I like pie.

    I like pyre zombies too. They shine at one point of the game, as any uu should. Generally though, I use them more as a counter to such fearsome opponents as spectres. Even my mindless burning golems are not throwaway cannon fodder (unless I face a Horseman or something).
     
  8. Dark Russell

    Dark Russell Octagonecologyst

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    I love them the way they are...but then again I play the Sheiam with the Armageddon Counter turned off so...
     
  9. Monkeyfinger

    Monkeyfinger Deity

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    Oct 24, 2006
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    They're a really high powered UU for a civ that's otherwise a piece of crap until strength of will.

    Leave as they are. They serve a good purpose and they need to be very strong to fill their role.
     
  10. cabbagemeister

    cabbagemeister Please wait...

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
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    517
    Picked Other. Yes, they're unbalanced. No, they should not be changed. Instead, the blander civs should be given unbalanced mechanics.

    I'm fundamentally against nerfing things. FfH is not supposed to be perfectly balanced.
     
  11. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    I don't think they are really unbalanced, but given how they don't have a building prereq and they have a very nice ability, I think increasing their cost would be appropriate.


    I don't think that the Sheaim should start with Death mana though. They should really have Dimensional instead.
     
  12. Thunder_Gr

    Thunder_Gr Emperor

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    I think they are fine. Sometimes the AI uses them well, some times not. I just wish the AI used them well more often.

    :p. Meaning, the dimensional sphere does nothing right now.
     
  13. Zechnophobe

    Zechnophobe Strategy Lich

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    It's funny actually, I don't generally consider them a 'huge' problem. But man, I just played a game on Immortal where Ozzy absolutely dominated with them. She'd conquered two other civ's by turn 200, her army, and forces in general, comprised almost solely of PZ's.

    I think they should require a building to build. Maybe a Training Yard as normal, or something else? Mage guild might be too much of a nerf since they'd need KotE to build them. The issue is that they are incredibly easy to mass produce from the moment you research bronze working.
     
  14. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    I think their explosion should have a damage cap, even if it's 95% . aside from that they are great, but not overpowered.
     
  15. Bad Player

    Bad Player Deity

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    I don't play as much as I'd like - what's this mage counter you speak of plz?
     
  16. Sephi

    Sephi Deity

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    :health: II spell: Destroy Undead
     
  17. PanzerWolf

    PanzerWolf Chieftain

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    No, they are not "unbalanced". I use "" because things in FfH2 are not supposed to be balanced. Each civ and unit has it's own era. And it's a world that put survival is pri 1. Many games where I've manually set the Sheaim to be in (where I play as good and need something to use my weapons on :evil:), I've seen them quite early being whiped out. This mean that Pyre Zombies are good for them to gain some power if they survive long enough to get them.

    All-in-all, I think that Kael & Co has done an incredible job in "balancing" that fit the world of Erebus quite well. If some elements are changed, they might as well have to change other elements too. So just leave it please :)
     
  18. Yashkaf

    Yashkaf King of my Castle

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    I actually voted that yes, they are unbalanced. Two main reasons:

    1. Most civs have some really powerful mechanic, but it tends to either come late in the game (vampires, shades) or leave the civ vulnerable in the late game if it comes early (barbarian civs). PZs come very early for a civ that is very strong in the end-game as well (AC rising, summoner archmages..) I wouldn't think that the Sheaim need such a big boost in the early game, they should be pretty pedestrian until they get AV and start slowly raising the counter. Giving them the best tier 2 UU in the game is a bit too much.

    2. Other UUs, even if very strong, work only in combination with other units and have counters. As mentioned, the only real counters to PZs come at tier 3 (life 2 mages, demon slaying etc.) and a huge stack of nothing but PZs can do very well on it's own.

    Suggestions:

    A good option can be raising their cost, so they wouldn't be so easy to mass produce. That way a counter to them will just be having more units.

    Another option is making them resistant but not invulnerable to their own explosions. That way instead of a large stack of doom they will have to be used in small groups, giving the enemy a chance to hit them first or recover between attacks.
     
  19. Jules.lt

    Jules.lt Prince

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    The thing is: they have no combat units between the pyre zombies and the randomly appearing planar gate units.

    They need something else than ritualists and mages in the meantime, and they need some units that they can reliably churn out. That's why I think it's good that the PZ hold themselves late into the game.
    (they usually have diseased corpses too, but a civ has to have units of its own, even if they're dramatically biased towards one religion...)
     
  20. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

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    They are overpowered, but the Sheaim don't have a melee unit after them, so they have to spam them because they won't be able to beat later units any other way.
     

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