QUATRONIA Diplomacy Discussion

Ah I was just confused by that since were at 0% research right now.
 
We just received this message from Quatronia to the ETTA. We never received the CDZ response included in this letter, so I also attached the copy attached to Quatronia's email.

Greeting to our allies, the members of the ETTT,

Quatronia would like to thank Amazon for their efforts to solve the problems our alliance is facing, will work together with our allies to ensure our efforts remain united against our enemies. However, it appears that the integrity of the Continuum has come under question. Quatronia feels the need to clarify a number of misrepresentations in CDZ's letter, so that we can move forward.

However Quatronia decided to aggressively settle next to Spamville with the cities of Resonance and Asymptote. The usefulness of either of these cities apart from culturally crowding Spamville is marginal at best. Quatronia specifically ignored settling better land that was closer to them, clearly instigating the current situation between two teams that should be behaving as allies, by settling extremely aggressively towards one of our cities.
The Continuum disagrees with CDZ's assessment of our cities, Resonance & Asymptote. They are not aggressive settlements nor are they 'marginally useful' and only serve to crowd Spamville. Asymptote was originally known as 'Cape City' to the Continuum. It's settlement has been planned for centuries. It grants our empire with two resources within its borders. Resonance's was originally planned further south, but due to production priorities we were unable to settle it prior to Spamville and had to move it north, though it is still a fine city spot. In fact it has the highest population on the peninsula. The Continuum can provide records of these plans dating back to 1920BC (Turn 52). This is all prior to CDZ settling Spamville in 1560BC (Turn 61). We apologize if you saw these moves as aggressive, it is unfortunate that you did not send us any messages to inform us of that.


Now it is important to note that up to this point at no time had Quatronia sought to discuss the settlement of our common peninsula... So in response to their aggressive settling against Spamville we settled ereh rO, Quatronia then settled Pulsar Plateau.
Admittedly, The Continuum had not yet discussed these matters with CDZ, however we were in the process of writing a message regarding splitting the petal. It was at this point CDZ settled ereh rO. Quatronia remains shocked at this move. As you put it yourselves, ereh rO is a 'response', a retaliation to Quatronia's expansion. It's a clear encroachment on our territory as it is quite a distance from the CDZ capital. I would imagine that the citizens of ereh rO have asked at least once to join the The Continuum because when they look across the sea, they see our capital, Continuum! We believe CDZ would be similarly confused should Quatronia have settled "Or here" first. A cheap, productive city in your first-ring location, snatched up by a greedy ally? Of course this would be cause for strife.

...nor did they ever express disappointment at not having the stone. They never asked if we would be willing to come to any arrangements with regards to trading the stone to them. All of these actions which one would expect from an ally were never explored by them.
On this point The Continuum feels there is some agreement. We never once mentioned stone, nor does The Continuum require it. We aren't sure why this was included in the original- hopefully it wasn't outside speculation added in. Quatronia does not need the stone, though we would be open to perhaps borrowing it one day for Moai in a fair exchange.


It was only sometime after this that they came to us and ridiculously demanded we exchanged ereh rO for a settler they would gift us in return...
Quatronia rejects the accusation that we 'Demanded' an exchange. We offered to trade a city for a city- ereh rO for a settler. The Continuum felt it would be a fair way to resolve the situation. Surely if this was ridiculous, we would get a counteroffer? CDZ's reply was hardly friendly, more a dismissal, nor did it contain any hint of a counteroffer.


...because ereh Or was "in their sphere of influence", whilst grossly overlooking the fact that the first city they settled on the peninsula was "in CDZ's sphere of influence". This we found inadequate compensation for our city so they went ahead and settled Cygous.
Clearly our definition of 'sphere of influence' differs. Both Resonance and Asymptote are not in CDZ's sphere of influence. Cygnus clearly is, but neither our first nor our second cities.

And now there is the further matter of researching Music, which Quatronia decided to research after we announced we are doing it.
Quatronia does not agree with your judgement. We sent a message to the ETTT announcing we were researching music. Only then did CDZ come forth and state they were doing the same. The previous official message regarding research had CDZ researching Feudalism. The Continuum doesn't recall when the secrets of Feudalism were discovered.


When looking back through the event from the beginning we believe it is clear that it was never Quatronia’s intention to negotiate or find some agreement, their intention was to take whatever they could, however they could. Overall this can only be viewed as appalling behaviour towards a nation that is its ally. If a solution is to be found then it must take into account Quatronia’s role in instigating and the exacerbating the problem we have on our hands today.
Quatronia wants to find agreement and compromise. It is CDZ who decided to disregard an ally's territory and settle. It is CDZ who never announced their tech path, and only mentioned music after we did. CDZ accuses Quatronia of "crimes" that only CDZ itself has committed.

We have attached several screenshots showing the finances of all the teams over the last few turns. Could CDZ please explain the reason for their sudden (mid-turn) gold increase, and Merlot's decrease in gold?

Now that we have cleared up any misconceptions, let us get back on the path to cooperation and M&M devouring. Since actions speak louder than words, Quatronia will use the Great Artist to bulb, which will benefit the whole ETTT, and make up for lost beakers. As for the Mavericks, we will declare war on them when our non-aggression pact ends, in a couple turns. If CDZ comes under threat from them, before or after that time, we will not hesitate to come to your defense, so please let us know if you have any Maverick problems. We know they have amassed an army, we're just not sure where it is- so Amazon be on the lookout too, with your central city.

The Continuum wishes to clarify to our allies that we value the mutual agreements enshrined in the ETTT. Quatronia will always act in the best interests of her people. Let us move beyond this finger pointing and get the ETTT back on track. Let us focus on the common goal; to rid the world of both the Mavericks and Merlot. Glory to CDZ. Glory to the Amazons, Glory to Sirius.

Glory to the ETTT!

-The Continuum

On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 6:58 PM, team cdz <team.cdz@gmail.com> wrote:


To the members of the ETTT,

As everyone is aware a problem has developed on the peninsula between Quatronia and CDZ. The Amazon nation has graciously taken time to propose some solutions and we at the CDZ welcome their efforts to bring about a resolution to the current situation. However, we must stress that, barring divine intervention, any and all decisions regarding the welfare of the CDZ Kleptocracy will be made by its citizens. Thus any form, other than said divine intervention, of binding judgement by a third party will not be acceptable.

While the CDZ accept the general direction of Amazon’s proposal is a positive one we feel that the history of the matter is important to consider, as only when the situation is viewed in context will we find a long lasting solution that acceptable to everyone.

The facts of the matter are we settled two cities on the peninsula in question, Spamville and Or here before Quatronia has any cities. Both of these are on the half of the peninsula closest to our island. We had planned a third city between the two and then to move on to the other peninsula.

However Quatronia decided to aggressively settle next to Spamville with the cities of Resonance and Asymptote. The usefulness of either of these cities apart from culturally crowding Spamville is marginal at best. Quatronia specifically ignored settling better land that was closer to them, clearly instigating the current situation between two teams that should be behaving as allies, by settling extremely agressively towards one of our cities.

Now it is important to note that up to this point at no time had Quatronia sought to discuss the settlement of our common peninsula, nor did they ever express disappointment at not having the stone. They never asked if we would be willing to come to any arrangements with regards to trading the stone to them. All of these actions which one would expect from an ally were never explored by them. So in response to their aggressive settling against Spamville we settled ereh rO, Quatronia then settled Pulsar Plateau.

It was only sometime after this that they came to us and ridiculously demanded we exchanged ereh rO for a settler they would gift us in return, because ereh Or was "in their sphere of influence", whilst grossly overlooking the fact that the first city they settled on the peninsula was "in CDZ's sphere of influence". This we found inadequate compensation for our city so they went ahead and settled Cygous. And now there is the further matter of researching Music, which Quatronia decided to research after we announced we are doing it.

When looking back through the event from the beginning we believe it is clear that it was never Quatronia’s intention to negotiate or find some agreement, their intention was to take whatever they could, however they could. Overall this can only be viewed as appalling behaviour towards a nation that is its ally. If a solution is to be found then it must take into account Quatronia’s role in instigating and the exacerbating the problem we have on our hands today.


After the conclusion of this unfortunate, Quattronia-instigated incident, we hope to continue our positive contribution to the ETTT, and collectively work towards a positive conclusion of the pacification of all non-ETTT civilizations in the world.

Best regards,
The Citizens of the CDZ Kleptocracy
 
You will note reading the above message that Quatronia are about to declare war on Mavericks. This might explain the "gifting cities" message from Mavericks.
 
I checked in on the game and Quatrona got the Great Artist who was born in Continuum.
 
We sould ask Quat, if they can destroy the connection at south coast of the spire with their caras. If they can and 'll we can try the same at Copper. Then they can't build the archer/eles at their home isle and iron units at spire.
 
Can Caravals blockade? Is that what they are doing?
 
I 've test it, so:
for destroying the connection you need a frigate or better, so Daves and my idea is nothing.
 
OK, so if I understand correctly, we need to discuss the following things with both Quatronia and the ETTA as a whole:

1. Straighten out whose researching what. Either finish Nationalism soon or switch ASAP to another tech to avoid overlap with Quat.

2. Encourage the ETTA to focus on research to build up a tech lead. I noticed BLubmuz suggesting Knights-Muskets-Cannons. That would be the Guilds > Gunpowder > Chemistry > Steel tech path. (Getting Guilds + Chemistry would definitely make workshops a better investment). Is that what we want to do? Should we side track to Education (Universities) if Quat wants to finish Nationalism?

3. What is the issue with stone that needs to be discussed?
 
We're at least half way through Nationalism, no point stopping now. I think we should get Education then and start preparing Liberalism to grab Steel. Quat can keep saving cash for a bit (like they will anyway) and get something that opens up when some of the current choice of 4 techs is ready.
 
Namely that they asked and got Stone back around Dec 3, they said they wanted it for "one turn to overflow into Maoi Statues". Husch pointed out recently that they still had it, I ended the deal since I figured it was well over 10 turns ago. They then asked for Stone again saying "one turn to overflow into Maoi Statues". I'm calling BS on that and wanted to see what the rest of you thought.

Also they will have Nationalism in 4 turns.
 
Unless we are using the stone, I think the diplomatic problems of not letting them have it for a turn are not worth it. I would give them the stone.
 
Well Husch suggested to get the Stone back to make Walls and then Castles for Trade routes.
 
If we are going to start on those, OK, keep the stone and we'll tell Quat we need it. If not, lend it to them for 1 turn and cancel the deal. Let me know what you want to do and I'll write a message.
 
I propose sending Quatronia the following message:

Quatronian allies:

Per your request, we have (or soon will) offered you stone in-game. We'd would like you to know that we will need it relatively soon ourselves, however, so we'd like to know how many turns you think you will need it. Our current understanding is one turn. Is that correct?

Also, we apologize, but we can't keep track of who is researching what. Our previous correspondences suggested you were researching Printing Press. We are currently researching Nationalism. We would like to suggest to the ETTA as a whole that all teams focus on research so that we can build a significant tech advantage over Mavericks/Merlot. What are your feelings about such a proposal?

Regards,

Trystero, Sirian diplomat
 
I propose sending Quatronia the following message:

I thought it was CDZ doing Printing Press? If I'm wrong, what are CDZ actually researching?

Whichever of them isn't getting Printing Press should get Constitution or Military Tradition once Nationalism is in (not long now, right?)

Looks good anyway though.
 
I thought it was CDZ doing Printing Press? If I'm wrong, what are CDZ actually researching?

According this message (over a month ago) it was PP.

Last I heard CDZ was researching Divine Right. Now, I'm not sure, but i have some recollection they said Education?

Whichever of them isn't getting Printing Press should get Constitution or Military Tradition once Nationalism is in (not long now, right?)

We can build it in 2 turns if we move up the slider to 100%

Looks good anyway though.

OK - I will send it as is and see what they say about the tech situation.
 
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