Quest for Glory - Deity Challenge #4

Nizef

Emperor
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It has been quite a while since the previous QfG. But now we are so far. You are welcome to join Darius on his road to space. We are playing on Boreal map with standard size and speed. You will find your starting area a pleasant one. However, not everyone will be happy with your expansion plans. Help Darius to fulfill his deams. And as always, remember to report back how you fared.

Enjoy!
 

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I'll give this a try. I've been looking at the tier lists recently and the original idea for QfG was related to Consentient's tier list and how he talks about compairng a Civ to a Neutral. I have noticed that tier lists seem to be made by and largely discussed by top, or at least really good, players. And I've come to the conclusion that tier lists are probably quite different depending on if you are a very good player or if you're average or below. The very top civs are consistent with practically everyone: Korea, Babylon, Maya, Poland (although I rate Poland lower than most because the average player gets less value out of the extra policies because they can't time them correctly). But I have disagreements with everything below them - and I'm an average or below player.

Persia is a perfect example of how a civ may have different ratings between top players and average players. Consentient's tier list has Persia in the God tier. Other tier lists have them in 2nd from top. I've never been able to make Persia work.

One of the qualities of a top tier civ as mentioned in the tier lists is one that makes it easier to win the game. Persia does not make it easier to win for me. Because their UA is hard to use. You've got to time it; and anything you've got to time is not exactly easy to use. As compared to a Neutral the UA is ok (longer golden ages are good) but I never get that many Ga's. Immortals are ok - but Spearmen are early for me to do any real warring. Satrap's Court is probably the best of Persia's uniques for me; more happiness is always needed.

Edit. For the start: Looks very nice. There's gold in them thar hills! I'll move the warrior NW to see if its ok to move the settler to the gold hill for the capital. Hopefully there's more gold around and a Gold+Silver pantheon might work.

Persia

Persia's advantages are: Longer Golden Ages, Extra movement, Satrap's Courts, and Immortals

1. Longer Golden Ages. Even without extra bonuses, this means that, provided you keep happiness at maximum, and with clever use of Great Artists, you will enjoy huge benefits. The Louvre, Taj Mahal and LToP all help immensely, and are all get-able on Deity. With CI and/or Universal Suffrage, this goes out of control. The extra culture, hammers and gold you will make in these periods, even with the gaps, will add up across the whole game to a huge amount. UA rating = 7

2. Extra movement.
How effective this UA becomes is only contingent on how long you can stretch those GAs out. But in an average game, you will enjoy at least a few of these, and if they are only 10 turns long, it means that for at least 10% of the game your units have +1 movement (assuming a sub-T300 finish, not unreasonable). But this 10% could very easily be 50-60% or more, and if you want to push the military, then this mobility factor truly crushes the AI, who is already out-manoeuvred. I've played DomV as Persia and creamed the opposition, and have seen the benefit even when going peaceful, like I did in DCL #3. Workers with 1 extra move get the job done quicker. Prophets get to where they're needed to prophesise a lot quicker too. UA rating = 4/5.

3. Satrap's Courts.
+1 gold and +2 happiness per city is very nice whether you go Tall or Wide, Peaceful or Warring. UB rating = 2/5

4. Immortals.
Spearmen that heal at double-rate deserve a rating of 2/5, and it would be 5/5 if, like Impis, they upgraded to Riflemen.

Civ rating = 15
 
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Been looking forward to another Quest for Glory!

Here is my sitrep on turn 94.



  • I love settling cities on gold or silver and all 3 starting cities are sitting on either on gold or silver. Susa is not an ideal city, but it is next to a mountain and in a good strategic position.
  • For the goal of science victory I went with standard tradition.
  • Got Oracle (t77) before National College (t84) - not sure if this is most optimal approach for science victory. For filler policies before rationalism I went with Patronage.
  • Religion - Religious Idols Pantheon (good synergy with city locations, tithe, and religious community)
About to settle 4th city up north. Should have timed it better on the settler build/move so they'd be ready to go as soon as NC is done, but I got distracted a bit with Assyria attacking me from the East. To be clear I declared war first, but they had 6 siege towers on my border... just passing through, eh???
The pre-emptive war declaration was calculated because I knew I would be able to repel his attack, and make peace quicker, and I didn't want to pay him off. The benefit of a little war at this point is to train our units and get some great generals in case someone like Ramkamtrollface comes after our lands with citadels later.
Initially I thought Greece was going to attack me first, however, Siam planted that city to the West blocking their approach. At first Siam and Greece wouldn't take any amount of money to war each other, which was weird, given how much gold income I have at this point in the game (praise the gold settles). But after that Siam city came down, they could be bribed with a fairly reasonable amount.
Next stop is Education.


qfg4 - turn94.png

 
This has been a great tactical map. I'm close to wrapping up the game, but didn't quite finish it today. I've pretty much warred all game while still keeping a good number of friends for research agreements and luxury and strategic sales.

With the starting location I prioritized pottery and getting a granary, so I started settlers a little later, but the extra production that gave allowed me to get 4 cities and libraries and the NC up in very good time (turn 79). I stole settlers from Siam, (turn 34) and Greece (turn 56) which helped keep my borders clear for longer. With the animosity of Greece growing a a later point I paid Assyria to DoW him (turn 100) which helpfully distracted him during the push to Education (during which military tech lags). A few very touch Immortal/Pikemen helped a lot.

I had lots of culture, so I made it to Mercantilism (turn 106) prior to opening Rationalism (turn 123). I'll include my conquest of Assyria and late game next week.

Q4GPersia_50.png
Q4GPersia_100.png
Q4GPersia_150.png


Here's the last two screenshots. Ended up with a turn 228 science victory.


Q4GPersia_200.png
Q4GPersia_228.png


Q4GPersia_Science.png
Q4GPersia_Golden Ages.png
 
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I'll give this a try. I've been looking at the tier lists recently and the original idea for QfG was related to Consentient's tier list and how he talks about compairng a Civ to a Neutral. I have noticed that tier lists seem to be made by and largely discussed by top, or at least really good, players. And I've come to the conclusion that tier lists are probably quite different depending on if you are a very good player or if you're average or below. The very top civs are consistent with practically everyone: Korea, Babylon, Maya, Poland (although I rate Poland lower than most because the average player gets less value out of the extra policies because they can't time them correctly). But I have disagreements with everything below them - and I'm an average or below player.

Persia is a perfect example of how a civ may have different ratings between top players and average players. Consentient's tier list has Persia in the God tier. Other tier lists have them in 2nd from top. I've never been able to make Persia work.

One of the qualities of a top tier civ as mentioned in the tier lists is one that makes it easier to win the game. Persia does not make it easier to win for me. Because their UA is hard to use. You've got to time it; and anything you've got to time is not exactly easy to use. As compared to a Neutral the UA is ok (longer golden ages are good) but I never get that many Ga's. Immortals are ok - but Spearmen are early for me to do any real warring. Satrap's Court is probably the best of Persia's uniques for me; more happiness is always needed.

Edit. For the start: Looks very nice. There's gold in them thar hills! I'll move the warrior NW to see if its ok to move the settler to the gold hill for the capital. Hopefully there's more gold around and a Gold+Silver pantheon might work.

I think I will play this game, stay peaceful and push lategame gold as high as I can, so that I can demonstrate how much GPT is actually created by the longer Golden Ages :)
 
Update: Lazy T254 SV

Liberty, Patronage dip, Commerce dip, Trad dip, Rationalism, Freedom

ALMOST 1000 years of constant Golden Age

What made this so easy for me was the terrain was awful for the AI, much worse than what I had. They also fought pointless wars with each other without any significant gains. Most of the CS were kinda near me so my early units did a LOT of barb quests and overall the CS quests were in my favour so a really strong start.

The midgame strategy was spot on and gold ramped up to insane levels. Got so bored in the lategame that I stopped micromanaging and just clicked 'Next turn'. You can see this drop off in my two graphs

If I am to take part in future games in this series, the maps HAVE to be generated with Hellblazer or I can't take them seriously. Have y'all seen what a powerhouse AI civ like Assyria or Greece can do when they get fantastic land?

Also, mountains.... gotta take them out. either they protect you (as in the case of this map for a turtle run) or else they hinder you, when warmongering. Just a really bad feature in this game.

Final comment... PLEASE don't add more ruins. I must have had 20+ which also contributed to a very strong start. I think I was T60 sth NC with Liberty, which is really just silly.
 

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Update: Lazy T254 SV

Liberty, Patronage dip, Commerce dip, Trad dip, Rationalism, Freedom

ALMOST 1000 years of constant Golden Age

What made this so easy for me was the terrain was awful for the AI, much worse than what I had. They also fought pointless wars with each other without any significant gains. Most of the CS were kinda near me so my early units did a LOT of barb quests and overall the CS quests were in my favour so a really strong start.

The midgame strategy was spot on and gold ramped up to insane levels. Got so bored in the lategame that I stopped micromanaging and just clicked 'Next turn'. You can see this drop off in my two graphs

If I am to take part in future games in this series, the maps HAVE to be generated with Hellblazer or I can't take them seriously. Have y'all seen what a powerhouse AI civ like Assyria or Greece can do when they get fantastic land?

Also, mountains.... gotta take them out. either they protect you (as in the case of this map for a turtle run) or else they hinder you, when warmongering. Just a really bad feature in this game.

Final comment... PLEASE don't add more ruins. I must have had 20+ which also contributed to a very strong start. I think I was T60 sth NC with Liberty, which is really just silly.
I am sorry that you didn´t enjoy the game. I totally understand your point of view. However, what to do about it is a different story. Some active players are so good that no map is difficult enough and some struggle to overcome an easy map (like #4). I will try to make some more challenging maps down the road and you (and other players as well) are welcome to contribute, if you have the time.
 
If I contribute a map it will be Large or Huge, Hellblazer, chosen civs, always Pangaea. If three or more people chime in here that they want to play such a map, then I will make one, probably Spain, Shoshone or America if those are desirable
 
I'll definitely play a Large Shoshone, or Spain with a NW. And even an America but that wouldn't be my first choice. Can't promise I'll finish it hahaha; I start many more games than I finish. Huge map would kill my computer though.
 
Got off to an OK start, by turn 45 I'd already seen armies from Siam and Greece hanging around the borders so bribed them to fight each other. Managed an earlier National College, but before it was built Siam, Greece AND Assyria were at the borders. Since roughly turn 70 I've been fighting draining non-stop defensive wars, managed to see off Siam, but Greece and Assyria are still at it with carpets of troops on turn 155... that's 85 turns of full on war. I'm surrounded by hostiles, can't send caravans, there's nowhere worthwhile left to found a fourth city.

It looks like the end is inevitable, but experience says they may yet get bored. And, if you look at the current screen grab, you can see the number of enemy troops attacking my cities is now far lower than it was 25 turns ago. At one point I could see more than 30 attacking units.

The interesting thing is that I've been up against the military limit for almost all those 85 or so turns and am still last in the demographic table for soldiers.

I was playing, as suggested, for a science victory, but IF I make it to the end of this war my army should be well trained for a domination push.
 

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Got off to an OK start, by turn 45 I'd already seen armies from Siam and Greece hanging around the borders so bribed them to fight each other. Managed an earlier National College, but before it was built Siam, Greece AND Assyria were at the borders. Since roughly turn 70 I've been fighting draining non-stop defensive wars, managed to see off Siam, but Greece and Assyria are still at it with carpets of troops on turn 155... that's 85 turns of full on war. I'm surrounded by hostiles, can't send caravans, there's nowhere worthwhile left to found a fourth city.

It looks like the end is inevitable, but experience says they may yet get bored. And, if you look at the current screen grab, you can see the number of enemy troops attacking my cities is now far lower than it was 25 turns ago. At one point I could see more than 30 attacking units.

The interesting thing is that I've been up against the military limit for almost all those 85 or so turns and am still last in the demographic table for soldiers.

I was playing, as suggested, for a science victory, but IF I make it to the end of this war my army should be well trained for a domination push.

Made it to T245 then the game crashed on me. I rebooted, reloaded and started all over again, this time with much more success, but the game still crashed at ~T245. I don't think it's the map, this happens on about one in ten games on the Mac. In the past I could load the game into Windows and it would play... but I spent so much on my 16-inch MacBook Pro that the Windows computer had to go. :)

Either way... I'm about to try another quest.
 
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