question about city files

Gray Wolf

Winter Wolf
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Ravenswood
Can someone please verify this for me?

In a city file (say reuro.pcx), it is supposed to have 4 rows and 3 columns right?

And each row is for each era right? And each column is for city size 1, 2, and 3 (or something like that) right?

I've seen some with 4 columns and I'm getting confused...

Also, sometimes I find "ancient" sets and I suppose the only thing
they would be used for is row 1 right?

Also, while I'm asking questions about this. if a city is too big, will city always overlay the terrain
or is it possible for the terrain to cut off part of the city?

Thanks...
 
In a city file (say reuro.pcx), it is supposed to have 4 rows and 3 columns right?

And each row is for each era right? And each column is for city size 1, 2, and 3 (or something like that) right?

I've seen some with 4 columns and I'm getting confused...

Correct four rows - one for each era, and three columns - one for each size. I haven't seen one with four columns before. Walled pcx files have four rows and one column.

Also, sometimes I find "ancient" sets and I suppose the only thing they would be used for is row 1 right?

Depending on the timeline you could use a city set for one or more eras/rows.

Also, while I'm asking questions about this. if a city is too big, will city always overlay the terrain or is it possible for the terrain to cut off part of the city?

If you look in Pounder's thread, there is an oversized city pcx template. The top colored sections in each square can be used for cities although if they are too big the city will cover terrain in the adjoining squares. If your city extends into the lower colored section you may find terrain improvements, like irrigation, may cover the city graphic itself.

I use a modified template with a blue highlighted area, so I don't go to big either towards the back or front (if I want my cities more centered).

 
There are 60 places in Game reserved for City Images without city walls and 20 places for images with city walls.

When City is drawn, Game calculates it's image index:

Index = BIC_Data.Races[Civilizations[_City->Body.CivID].RaceID].CultureGroupID
+ 5 * (Civilizations[_City->Body.CivID].Era + 4 * _City_Class_Index);
_City_Class_Index = 0 (Town); 1 (City); 2 (Megapolis); 3 (City Walls)

City with city walls is drawn only when it's size <= 6 (it's a town) and it has improvement with combat value "Bombard" > 0.

So, there are 5 Culture grous * 4 Eras * 4 City Types = 80 Images.
 
Correct four rows - one for each era, and three columns - one for each size. I haven't seen one with four columns before. Walled pcx files have four rows and one column.



Depending on the timeline you could use a city set for one or more eras/rows.



If you look in Pounder's thread, there is an oversized city pcx template. The top colored sections in each square can be used for cities although if they are too big the city will cover terrain in the adjoining squares. If your city extends into the lower colored section you may find terrain improvements, like irrigation, may cover the city graphic itself.

I use a modified template with a blue highlighted area, so I don't go to big either towards the back or front (if I want my cities more centered).

Thank you very much. I was getting very confused about all this. :confused:

I found Pounders 753x568 template and saved it but I like yours very much also because I have the same goal of centering the cities and I don't want my cities to be too big.

Anyway, now I have to do alot of tedious work of getting the cities that I like for different era's and start creating my own city files!

Thanks again, I could not find basic info about this. But something tells me from now on to go straight to Pounders threads and just read them all! I'll check out your threads also! :worship:
 
City with city walls is drawn only when it's size <= 6 (it's a town) and it has improvement with combat value "Bombard" > 0.

I was confused about why all walled cities looked small. I see now. It has to be a smaller city size for the walls to even be drawn.

Thanks again! You are a King. :king: :worship:
 
And each row is for each era right? And each column is for city size 1, 2, and 3 (or something like that) right?

I've seen some with 4 columns and I'm getting confused...

If you're looking at previews, I've seen them combined into one image with the walled cities as the extra column. The actual files should be separated.
 
There are 60 places in Game reserved for City Images without city walls and 20 places for images with city walls.

When City is drawn, Game calculates it's image index:

Index = BIC_Data.Races[Civilizations[_City->Body.CivID].RaceID].CultureGroupID
+ 5 * (Civilizations[_City->Body.CivID].Era + 4 * _City_Class_Index);
_City_Class_Index = 0 (Town); 1 (City); 2 (Megapolis); 3 (City Walls)

City with city walls is drawn only when it's size <= 6 (it's a town) and it has improvement with combat value "Bombard" > 0.

So, there are 5 Culture grous * 4 Eras * 4 City Types = 80 Images.


Here is a link to a post with my observations using a 6th culture group in C3C and the city images appearing with the culture group "None":

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=468251
 
If you're looking at previews, I've seen them combined into one image with the walled cities as the extra column. The actual files should be separated.

Oh, I see the walls now. Thanks. :cool:
 
If you're looking at previews, I've seen them combined into one image with the walled cities as the extra column. The actual files should be separated.

Thanks, I never noticed the ones in the fourth column had walls.
 
I guess the game was designed to only draw the city walls when the size<6 and bombard>0.

So I guess if you have a city with walls (size=6), when you go to size 7, the walls disappear? I have never noticed walls disappearing before?

Anyway, just wondered if anyone has noticed their walls disappearing?
 
Forgive me for asking silly questions... here's another one.

Do you have to be careful about where you position your walled city image inside the walled pcx file? I know you have to put the Ancient one in the top of the file. But will it make a difference if it is in the top-left, top-center, or top-right?

If the game stops showing the unwalled city and starts showing the walled city, is it possible for the city to sort of jump a few pixels on the map ... to the left/right, etc...depending on where you put the walled city inside the file?

I guess I should just try this out on my own...
 
Grey Wolf...

Yes, the City Walls vanish according to the City Size YOU Set.This is because the City is as strong as the Town with Walls.

Yes, it matters... Start by placing the Cities then add the Walls around them.
The Parts of the City that show with Walls should be in the exact same place as without Walls.
 
Do you have to be careful about where you position your walled city image inside the walled pcx file? I know you have to put the Ancient one in the top of the file. But will it make a difference if it is in the top-left, top-center, or top-right?

You would place the walled cities just like you did for the regular city pcx, but instead of three columns, the walled city pcx has only one. Using my modified template with the cities placed:



Personally, it doesn't matter to me if the walled and unwalled cities are in the exact same position. When I place a city I center it first on the diamond and then move it up until the front edge of the city is contained within the blue guide if it's a larger graphic, or if it's a smaller graphic, contained within the diamond itself. Because walled and unwalled cities are inherently different sizes they might not be in the "exact" same spot, but it's usually such a small amount that I don't even notice if it has shifted. What's more important to me is that the city is not covered by terrain overlays (irrigation, etc.) and that units are positioned correctly (in my eyes) on the city itself.
 
You would place the walled cities just like you did for the regular city pcx, but instead of three columns, the walled city pcx has only one. Using my modified template with the cities placed:

Oh, I see. We need to use the same template for the walled pcx file ... that way we can put everything in the same place except add walls. Makes sense now.

note: I've been using Pounder's template for the city files and the wall file now and I'm able to copy/paste my city from the city file into the walled file and then I place the image of the city with walls over top of the city in the exact same spot... everything works good that way for me...

I like your blue template but I decided to use Pounders.

Thanks for all your help. I really appreciate it.

Thank you.
 
Grey Wolf...

Yes, the City Walls vanish according to the City Size YOU Set.This is because the City is as strong as the Town with Walls.

And this makes sense to me now too. Thanks Vuldacon.

Yes, it matters... Start by placing the Cities then add the Walls around them. The Parts of the City that show with Walls should be in the exact same place as without Walls.

Thanks.

note: I've been using Pounder's template for the city files and the wall file now and I'm able to copy/paste my city from the city file into the walled file and then I place the image of the city with walls over top of the city in the exact same spot... everything works good that way for me...
 
If you are using Pounder's template then the city pcx should be 753px wide and the wall city pcx should be only 251px wide.

A good example of why I don't place walled and unwalled cities in the exact same spot would be if I use some of Kyriakos's cities. Some of his walled cities, while fantastic, really enlarge the city so placing it in the same spot as the unwalled city causes the graphic to overlap too far to the front and risks it being covered by terrain overlays.

If I wanted them in the same spot I'd have to start with the walled first and then place the unwalled to match, but then it becomes too high for my tastes. This same issue occurs with the different city sizes as well.
 
I was just writing an explanation when seeing, that Vuldacon in the meantime has answered your questions. So here in short:

1. You must distinguish between citygraphics that are shown on the map and City graphics that are shown in the cityview of the cityscreen (in C3C the cityview is only available in the standard game, not in scenarios or conquests.

2. In the citygraphics that appear on the map, the conditions for that graphics to appear are, as you were told in the posts above:

a) City Level 1 (what in the Editor normally is set to maximal 6 but can also be set in the general settings of the Editor to other numbers) and Bombardement defense >0.

b) For the next levels of a City set in the General settings of the editor, the images of level-2 or level-3 cities in the City graphics will appear.

Here Firaxis and unfortunately many, many creators of citygraphics did an important mistake: They show citygraphics of level-2 or level-3 cities without citywalls, what is completely nonsense, as the bigger cities in the ancient and medivial era nearly almost had bigger city walls than smaller cities.

This mistake results as the designer of the citygraphics (appearing on the map) of Firaxis and most modders of citygraphics are neither aware of logic, nor did they throw a view in the settings of Civ 3. As Vuldacon posted, the defense value for level-2 or level-3 cities is set as high or higher than a level-1 City with city-walls The defense bonus of a level-1 city in the general settings of the the editor is set to 0, so these cities need the construction of citywalls to rise their defense value.

So most graphics for cities on the map are completely nonsense as they show cities without citywalls, while these cities in reality have citywalls or massive citywalls due to the Setting of the defense Bonus in the General settings of the editor.

c) If the city graphics are set to magenta you will receive a city without any citygraphics on the map. I posted something about these "invisible cities" in my first posts, I did at CFC. You will have a city at that place, but you only see the cityborders and the terrain and the resources beneath that city on the map. This can be very useful in some scenarios. I used that trick for the massive WW2 scenario SOE.

Spoiler :








3. The story for the citygraphics of the cityview inside the cityscreen is different:

a) In C3C these graphics are only available for the epic game, not any longer for Scenarios or conquests as the screen of the cityview was used to fix a source of crashes "the cheap way", when modders use more luxury/strategic resources than there are available for the standard game. In the standard game the number of lux./strat. resources is below the level that causes these crashes.

b) The graphics of the "cityview" are connected to fixed entries in the pediaicons file.
Therefore in the next Version of CCM, where I try to mod the main-biq of C3C (and so have access again to the graphics of the cityview and the palace for my mod), the buildings must have the entry of the buildings that appear on a certain place of the cityview. Per example I replaced the graphics of the Colossus by graphics showing the Eiffel Tower. If the new graphics of the Eiffeltower should be seen in the cityscreen at the place and in the size of the Collossus graphics, The Eiffel Tower must be given the entry of the Collossus in the pediaicons file.

c) Unfortunately the programming of the cityview-graphics seems to be completely spoiled, so no more views of buildings can be added and only existing building-graphics can be replaced. Until now, nobody was able to add new images to the cityview graphics and to use the 10 user defined building slots that this "Baron Krypto" of Firaxis is speaking of without problems. Even Firaxis themselves were not able to use them correctly when adding the commercial docks and bunker graphics to their expansion sets, as they lost at least the Sixtine Chapel graphics when they added the other buildings.

Spoiler :
 
(b) For the next levels of a City set in the General settings of the editor, the images of level-2 or level-3 cities in the City graphics will appear.

Here Firaxis and unfortunately many, many creators of citygraphics did an important mistake: They show citygraphics of level-2 or level-3 cities without citywalls, what is completely nonsense, as the bigger cities in the ancient and medivial era nearly almost had bigger city walls than smaller cities.

So most graphics for cities on the map are completely nonsense as they show cities without citywalls, while these cities in reality have citywalls or massive citywalls due to the Setting of the defense Bonus in the General settings of the editor.

I completely agree. And so one solution I had in mind was to go ahead and draw walls around some of the plus-sized cities in the non-wall pcx file so that we could at least see them around the city.


c) If the city graphics are set to magenta you will receive a city without any citygraphics on the map ... invisible cities...

You will have a city at that place, but you will only see the cityborders and the terrain and the resources beneath that city on the map. This can be very useful in some scenarios. I used that trick for the massive WW2 scenario SOE.

I did not understand how to make invisible cities until now. That's easy to do. Just leave it all magenta.

Unfortunately the programming of the cityview-graphics seems to be completely spoiled, so no more views of buildings can be added and only existing building-graphics can be replaced

I didn't realize that you could even change the graphics in the city view.

But if you can't add new buildings, and sometimes lose buildings when you exchange stuff, it's probably not worth the trouble to even change anything in there.

I wish the programmers had done a better job. They must have been rushed (like someone else said 1-2 days ago).

Anyway, thanks for all the info you provided here.
 
Civinator,

I see how the Washington city works. It's invisible and shows the city name below and the city borders...

But how is the DAK city working? It doesn't show a city name below?


Nevermind, I just read your post about invisible cities and I see how you did that now.
Very interesting...

I'm not sure if I want to make rAmer.pcx ancient cities invisible or not... Wouldn't you have
to create a bunch of strategic resources to handle a bunch of different American cities?
And there is a luxury/strategic resource limit of 32, right?

Anyway, I read that stuff about invisible cities a long time ago and only understood about 10% of it back then.
And now I think I understand about 80% of it.

Also, one thing that I don't like ... is you can't control where each civilization will build a city. For example,
I wouldn't want a non-English civilization to build London. That sort of bothers me a bit.

And it seems like you have to do a lot of '****' type city naming which would be confusing to me.

I do think it would be cool to have "invisible war zones" somehow though... that are maybe controlled by
barbarians. Do you know of a way to do that? If so, I'd like to re-name the barbarians to indians
and put a lot of invisible city tee-pee strategic resources all over north america to fight against Americans
and Canadians...

note: Sorry for all the edits. I have OCD big time and sometimes I have to incessantly re-word sentences
that already make sense to begin with ... I don't know why I'm like that. :mad:


Thanks again Civinator. :)
 
If you are using Pounder's template then the city pcx should be 753px wide and the wall city pcx should be only 251px wide.

A good example of why I don't place walled and unwalled cities in the exact same spot would be if I use some of Kyriakos's cities. Some of his walled cities, while fantastic, really enlarge the city so placing it in the same spot as the unwalled city causes the graphic to overlap too far to the front and risks it being covered by terrain overlays.

If I wanted them in the same spot I'd have to start with the walled first and then place the unwalled to match, but then it becomes too high for my tastes. This same issue occurs with the different city sizes as well.

What I did with one of Kyriakos' huge cities was scale it down to 94% first. Because that helped make it fit better and give room for walls...
 
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