Question about native German speakers

[Lotus49]

Hey Lotus, I know I´m not directly adressed, but perhaps I might comment .

I must say that I´m positively impressed! Considering the lack of practice you mentioned, I think your German is indeed quite good ( in fact, better then most ) , especially the ch/umlauts are good. But ( although I think you did not claim to be ) , it is quite obvious you are not a native speaker. Nevertheless *I* think you are doing very well !

If you want me to comment more specifically, just ask.

That's why Marla's wrong... it is in the blood. I'm just trying to understand why my 'fellow people of similar ethnic/genetic background', or whatever you want to call it, struggle with these silly English whistling and buzzing sounds.

As for my German, like I tried to explain in depth above, the entire deck has been stacked against me. I haven't got all the advantages Europeans do, being exposed to lots of different languages and cultures. All I can say is, that if I ever get a job in Germany (I've been trying) and I go see what it's like over there, I have a feeling I'll catch on real quick (hopefully while I'm still young and my mind can still learn new things). Why? Because for some reason my mouth likes talking like that. That's my kind of language -- coincidence, considering my bloodline? I think not.

In fact, I bet if I'd been born in Germany, I wouldn't be able to say the English sounds so well. BUT, I'm trying to imagine WHY I wouldn't be able to, and I simply can't figure it out.

 

[holy king]

sounds quite ok lotus, but there's no way one would not instantly figure out you're american

 

[scherbchen]

can't play these, but I'll accept everyone's notion that it sounds good

another English phoneme Germans seem to have a lot of trouble with is vine vs. wine (somewhat related to the Arnold comments).

But you have to consider that for a native German speaker learning just about any foreign language is a bit of a pain because German has so many unique traits not found in other languages, let me give you two examples:

Glottal stop: any word beginning witha vowel gets this in German, what it means is that the vocal chords will completely seal of the air-stream before the utterance of the vowel, basically giving that vowel a plosive character (as in p,b,k etc). Now English and Spanish (don't know about others) do not have this and this habit of ours makes it pretty easy to spot a German speaker.

Auslautverhärtung: I don't know if there is an English word for this, but here is what happens... Tod (death) and tot (dead) signify two different things, but in German they are pronounced the same way. Basically you can only tell them apart if written or considering the context. Any voiced consonant (d,g,b) in a German word becomes devoiced (t,k,p) at the end of a word (aparently this only applies to plosives or my brain is shutting down atm). So a German would be tempted to pronounce bed as bet.

Add to this the sounds that just don't exist in our language and you can see why the typical German accent is just so prevalent.

Grammar-wise Germans are in the unlucky situation of having one of the world's few languages where the verb (unless it is reported speech) always comes in the second possible position, leading to some very un-english and un-spanish constructions from time to time.

PS: incidentally those two habits of German speakers make it more difficult for foreigners to speak German as well, of course.

 

[plarq]

can't play these

Rename those txt to wav.

If you can't(assume you're using windows), Select My Computer->Tools-->Folder Options-->View-->Uncheck "Hide Known Extensions"

 

[Verbose]

I don't speak Swedish, but if I did you can bet I'd do so impecably.

All nine vowels, including the "u" that only really exists in Swedish, Norwegian and Japanese, and the "doule accent" thing? Then you're very good indeed! To make it a challenge it should perhaps be in Malmö dialect, with all the triphtongs in working order.

Though for a real challenge, you should try Danish.

 

[Marla_Singer]

Okay Lotus, I've heard your files.

In "gymnasium" the y should be pronounced as an "ü", not as a "ee". As for your "r", I've heard them as much in French than in German. I appreciate your effort but I have to say they sounded like English "r". You've said "Baton woooge", "un, deux, twois". Well of course, it's not exactly the "w" sound, but from a French perspective, it's closer to the "w" sound than to the "r" sound.

 

[Marla_Singer]

That's why Marla's wrong... it is in the blood. I'm just trying to understand why my 'fellow people of similar ethnic/genetic background', or whatever you want to call it, struggle with these silly English whistling and buzzing sounds.

But then, how could you explain that anyone, no matter where their parents come from in the world, necessarily speak French with zero accent as long as they've been raised in France?

We are not talking about accents, merely the ability to use one's mouth to make certain sounds.

Well, that's exactly the thing you don't understand. Accents are only a matter of sounds. The same reason why people speak with an accent is the reason why they aren't able to produce certain sounds. The reason why you can't pronounce a French or German "r" correctly is simply because, no matter if you like it or not, you're limited by your accent.

We learn as a child to reproduce the sounds of our environment, and once an adult, it becomes extremely difficult to learn to not only pronounce, but also hear correctly, other sounds than those we've learnt at the time.

 

[scherbchen]

speaking of accents -and probably all native speakers disagree with me here- in my book there is no such thing as an ugly English (native) accent. Argentinian Spanish or some German dialects make me itch, however.

 

[Grisu]

speaking of accents -and probably all native speakers disagree with me here- in my book there is no such thing as an ugly English (native) accent. Argentinian Spanish or some German dialects make me itch, however.

Indeed, it's the same to me. you probably have to know the language really well to develop a dislike for certain dialects
No offence to anybody here, but "Sächsisch" (or whatever it's called) makes me cringe whenever I hear it. Same with some eastern Swiss-German dialects

 

[Stolen Rutters]

Actually, this is not specific to languages, everything in life works this way. When you know absolutely nothing about how a car works and you open the hood to check the engine, you will see some kind of big dark gray block with wires everywhere. When you're a mechanic, you'll see it with a lot more details. With languages, it's exactly the same.

As someone who grew up in and around Detroit, I find it hard to believe that anyone older than 3 years old would ever see the inside of a car as a "big dark gray block with wires". However, I had an accident in North Carolina, where I had a local body shop fix my car, and the mechanic couldn't find the fuse box housing! I mean, even a housewife knows where the fuses are! ...or so I thought.

I'm the farthest you can get from a "car guy" (I read books as a kid), but one of my first memories was watching my dad switch out an alternator on a '71 Ford Torino. My head just made it to the top of the fender. I had to stand on a stool to see what he was doing.

Even the least car savvy of us knows the basics of internal combustion. Well, we don't all know the specifics of the basic Otto cycle, but everyone knows you burn fuel to put pressure on the pistons, to get the transmission to rotate the wheels. It's part of the culture, I guess.

 

[Thorbal]

Indeed, it's the same to me. you probably have to know the language really well to develop a dislike for certain dialects
No offence to anybody here, but "Sächsisch" (or whatever it's called) makes me cringe whenever I hear it. Same with some eastern Swiss-German dialects

Yes, Sächsisch is my pet-hatred as well .

Somehow I have come to pity those who use it... they are in a worse position than east-frisians by now and the favorite victim of most German comedians .

 

[Till]

Indeed, it's the same to me. you probably have to know the language really well to develop a dislike for certain dialects
No offence to anybody here, but "Sächsisch" (or whatever it's called) makes me cringe whenever I hear it. Same with some eastern Swiss-German dialects

I find Sächsisch hillarious, which causes awkward situations, whenever i encounter Saxonians lecturers/customers...
To me, Swabian is the most unintelligible dialect. I don't mind the 'sound' of it, though, or any dialect, for that matter. Of course, growing up in Franconia might have given me a bit of a resistance...

 

[Thorbal]

Haha you remind me of something there... we had a prof 2 years ago who held lectures about "political culture in contemporary Germany" ... problem was, that he only spoke with a VERY heavy Saxonian accent. The first two/three lectures were the funniest in my life... the whole audience burst with laughter all the time ( like that too well-known scene in The Life of Brian ) I´m a bit ashamed now, as it was SO mean... but it was so funny we just could not stop. And every time he urged us to be quiet and shut up, he made it even worse. Damn, we´ve been such . .. .. .. .. .. .. .s now that I come to think of it...

 

[holy king]

i think germans generally speak german in a funny way

 

[scherbchen]

pfeh!

at least we talk in a language that is named after our country!

 

[Grisu]

i think germans generally speak german in a funny way

I can agree with that

 

[holy king]

thanks, but unfortunately i have to say nothing's more fun than switzerdütsch... ;-)

 

[Grisu]

thanks, but unfortunately i have to say nothing's more fun than switzerdütsch... ;-)

this means war

nah, I'm just joking, I'm perfectly aware that our dialect might sound funny for the uninitiated

same with most german dialects. My gf's relatives badenser deutsch keeps cracking me up as well (and aparently they don't like being called 'Schwobe' either )

 

[Till]

thanks, but unfortunately i have to say nothing's more fun than switzerdütsch... ;-)

There's a difference? I bet the next thing you'll claim is that Austria and Switzerland are not part of the same country (Skifahrnia)!

 

[sirdanilot]

can't play these, but I'll accept everyone's notion that it sounds good

another English phoneme Germans seem to have a lot of trouble with is vine vs. wine (somewhat related to the Arnold comments).

But you have to consider that for a native German speaker learning just about any foreign language is a bit of a pain because German has so many unique traits not found in other languages, let me give you two examples:

Glottal stop: any word beginning witha vowel gets this in German, what it means is that the vocal chords will completely seal of the air-stream before the utterance of the vowel, basically giving that vowel a plosive character (as in p,b,k etc). Now English and Spanish (don't know about others) do not have this and this habit of ours makes it pretty easy to spot a German speaker.

Auslautverhärtung: I don't know if there is an English word for this, but here is what happens... Tod (death) and tot (dead) signify two different things, but in German they are pronounced the same way. Basically you can only tell them apart if written or considering the context. Any voiced consonant (d,g,b) in a German word becomes devoiced (t,k,p) at the end of a word (aparently this only applies to plosives or my brain is shutting down atm). So a German would be tempted to pronounce bed as bet.

Add to this the sounds that just don't exist in our language and you can see why the typical German accent is just so prevalent.

Grammar-wise Germans are in the unlucky situation of having one of the world's few languages where the verb (unless it is reported speech) always comes in the second possible position, leading to some very un-english and un-spanish constructions from time to time.

PS: incidentally those two habits of German speakers make it more difficult for foreigners to speak German as well, of course.

All of those things exist in Dutch aswell. Because of that, some people here have a easily noticeable accent when speaking English, but most people seem to have overcome the difference and can in fact pronounce the soft consonants at the end of a word. I think it's because the Netherlands are smaller and the language is used less around the world, and a lot of our tv programs are in english (although with subtitles) aswell, so we hear a lot of english and develop a native accent when speaking it. You'll have a hard time finding any dubbed Hollywood movies here. I'm not too sure about germany but in french almost all foreign language movies are dubbed, which makes it harder for them to learn english.