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Question about plundering routes and military formations

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Infixo, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    How often (if ever), do you see the following behavior on the AI side?
    1. Plundering trade routes when at war. NOT the barbariabs, who do that all the time, but majors and minors - if you are at war with them, do they actively plunder TRs?
    2. Making military formations. So, NOT guarding a settler, but making a formation with a support units, like Battering Ram or an Observation Ballon.
     
  2. Hammurabbit

    Hammurabbit Warlord

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    1. Happens quite frequently to me. Not sure if AI actively tries to plunder, or if it happens only if the enemy unit happen to end up on the same tile as the trade route.
    2. Battering Ram: Yes, but quite rarely. Other support units - no.
     
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  3. kingofsealand

    kingofsealand Warlord

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    1. I've definitely seen AI go after my trade routes with units, especially more mobile ones like privateers near unguarded sea routes.
    2. I rarely see the AI produce medics (in my last game shaka and I were fighting over the same little speck of land for late colonization, and he just kept buying builders and medics in his besieged city.) For the most part i agree with above poster, they sometimes manage a formation with battering ram or settler but rarely anything else
     
  4. WillowBrook

    WillowBrook Lurker

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    1. I've lost plenty of traders to major civ foes, on both land and water. I'm not sure how actively they seek them out.

    2. I don't do tons of warring, but rarely if at all (no specific observations I can recall, but I haven't been looking).
     
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  5. AriochIV

    AriochIV Analyst

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    I often seen the AI civs plundering trade routes during wartime, but I don't recall ever seeing them use support units.

    I do see Great Generals, but they just kind of wander aimlessly around the map and are rarely near the point of attack when the AI is on the offensive.
     
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  6. Icicle

    Icicle Prince

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    A war declaration cancels all active trade routes between those civs and prevents establishing new ones. If you're not seeing plundering hopefully that means you were smart enough to send your traders the opposite direction, but yeah, the AI will definitely plunder when they can.

    If anything I see the AI build too many medics and convoys when they don't have enough actual units to pair them with (although tbf my definition of too many of those is any number). I don't know that I've ever seen an AI battering ram.
     
  7. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    I have actually seen an AI use a battering ram correctly. Needless to say my walls fell almost instantly, and I lost the city. And yes I reloaded. Problem is I am so used to the AI not using battering rams correctly, I never plan for it. If they were consistent, then I would up my defenses. This was just a fluke.
     
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  8. Icicle

    Icicle Prince

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    I think most of us would have to change a lot if the AI ever started fighting correctly.
     
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  9. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    They seem better at plundering coastal trade routes.

    In any case, I usually grab Reform the Coinage since I hate that.
     
  10. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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  11. Caesar Augustus 27 BC

    Caesar Augustus 27 BC Chieftain

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    1. They plunder me all the time, I know if I go to war with someone I'm trading with it's almost a given they'll be plundered.

    2. With AI+ on I've noticed them use support units, including battering rams. Otherwise, no.
     
  12. cvb

    cvb Prince

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    Have you ever given (with Firetuner) a Battering ram to an AI player?

    I mean, who knows, what happens? I feel like giving them a free battering ram when they declare war on the human player ... perhaps a blind chicken finds a grain.

    (My translator gives me "Every dog has its day" for "Auch ein blindes Huhn findet mal ein Korn" :))
     
  13. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    The issue with Siege units could originate in a few places, however the most obvious is team composition for attacks. Those units are not required, and for early attacks not even listed. So, early attacks probably will never use Rams, later when a civ happens to have a sige units, it could use.
    This is the part where actually AI+ does a good job, by fixing the above. People playing with AI+ theoretically should see siege units being used.
     
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  14. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Nope, you want me to try?
     
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  15. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    Surprise in my recent test game.

    Korea produced 2 Rams and launched an attack on Jerusalem (pic1)

    But Jerusalem defenses were strong, 3 archers and 3 swordsmen (pic2)

    So, it ended up badly (pic3)
     

    Attached Files:

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  16. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    I think the AI has simply been taught to prefer siege weapons when attacking cities. It's not that the AI won't build/use Rams, but it's been given a higher priority to bring Catapults to city attacks.
     
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  17. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    This is so much the case....to use a weapon that is twice the cost and cannot be escorted and cannot be used in the same turn it moves.... who says Firaxis do not weight the dice? The AI has so much money they should do what we always do, just buy one where you need it.
     
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  18. cvb

    cvb Prince

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    When a test scenario can be defined in more detail to answer still open questions, I would appreciate your offer very much.

    As I understand it, the AIplayers can not/hardly conquer walled cities. And here in this thread I read, that they don't USE battering rams (unmodified game). So I wanted to understand better: do they build rams and have them just stand around (somebody saw that more than a few?) or don't they build rams and cannot therefor attack with them.

    If they have enough rams and just don't use: no need to test further. If they hardly build any, gifting some might be interesting. BUT: I will be not at all surprised, if they ignore the gifted rams or delete them (to cut maintenance costs :p)
    So this is with AI+ ? (I thought AI+ isn't compatible with the recent patches)
    They should, but we would be happy, if they would use gifted rams, wouldn't we?
     
  19. Infixo

    Infixo Deity

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    No. I am working on my own AI/strategy mod and doing a lot of tests to understand how various parameters affect the AI. However, I find AI+ very helpful because some things are done well there, but some not.

    As for the Rams, or any other unit, and how they are used or not used by AI, just a few highlights.
    1. AI evaluates if city is worth taking, and if so, starts an operation.
    2. Units are recruited to the operation, from the existing pool or contracts are submitted to cities to build them.
    2a. Each city has its own queue and evaluates every turn what is best to build.
    3. Once the team composition is complete, i.e. all required units are recruited, it moves to the city.
    4. Tactical subsystem performs attacks, using various methods (yes, even Air Attacks are available).
    5. Ongoing operation has its chances of success, AI reacts to that, e.g. by recruiting additional units or abandoning the target if operation is unsuccessul.

    This is really quite a complex process, that needs a lot of balancing and tuning to achieve full potential. The very good thing is that basically everything I described above can be modded now, without access to DLL.
     
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  20. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    Thanks for this description. Very helpful, @Infixo.

    Out of curiousity, have you determined how the AI responds to threats against it? Does it follow a similar process of creating an "operation" based on defending vulnerable cities and recruit defenders from elsewhere to respond?

    Also, have you noticed if there's a "production interruption" function anywhere, that would allow a city to shift from what it is currently building to a higher priority item? Or is production always completed once started, and then an evaluation made as to what to build next?
     

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