Question about Research Agreements

[Gamewizard]

So it has been awhile since I played with Thal's Mod, but am giving GotVEM #2 a try. Are RA's suppose to cost gold again? It did for me and it gave a small amount of science per turn and a tech boost at the end of the 30 turn agreement. Is that working as intended? Also, I checked the Civilopedia and it says that RA's are suppose to last 20 turns and it only mentions the tech boost upon completion, not the mutual per turn science.

 

[EsoEs]

Yup working as intended. When u enter an RA with another player, 3% of your total combined science is added to the science of each player each turn. You also receive some science at the end, but Im not sure how much.

 

[Gamewizard]

Awesome, thank you.

 

[Seek]

I'm pretty sure the tech boost at the end is not intended, but Thal hasn't been able to figure out why.

 

[Txurce]

I think you're right. Weirdly, I was thinking abut this with regard to my game right now, then saw this.

 

[Thalassicus]

I altered the RA lump sum -100% with Palaces to disable them... in theory... but there seems to be something counteracting it. I think there might be some minimum amount. I don't know why they'd code that in. Still... it doesn't seem to be a large bonus, so it should be okay for now. *shrugs* Nothing I can really do about it.

 

[Aristos]

I altered the RA lump sum -100% with Palaces to disable them... in theory... but there seems to be something counteracting it. I think there might be some minimum amount. I don't know why they'd code that in. Still... it doesn't seem to be a large bonus, so it should be okay for now. *shrugs* Nothing I can really do about it.

are you talking about the cost or the final beakers bonus?

 

[Txurce]

Bonus.

 

[tlaurila]

I like the idea that the RA is separate from friendship. But since the returns isn't fixed but a percentage, then wouldn't it seem more sensible that the costs would be proportional to the gain. I.e. costs X gp per beaker each turn. (Where X is likely non-integer.)

 

[Txurce]

I think the idea is that the costs are equal to your advantage.

 

[Thalassicus]

Our capability to alter vanilla RAs is severely limited with current modding tools. Basically the only thing we can do is change the per-era gold cost... which can only be a fixed value.

 

[tlaurila]

We can get X beakers per turn from the RA, so can't we also use the same method for -Y(X) gold per turn? The cost of initiating the RA could be zero.

 

[Txurce]

We can get X beakers per turn from the RA, so can't we also use the same method for -Y(X) gold per turn? The cost of initiating the RA could be zero.

Are you saying that all RA's should be paid in gpt, as opposed to full price up front?

 

[Zaldron]

Are you saying that all RA's should be paid in gpt, as opposed to full price up front?

Doesn't that reduce the risk/reward for RAs with AIs of unknown or hostile personality?

 

[Txurce]

Yes, it would. It also reduces human exploits. But I wasn't sure what tlaurila meant.

 

[Geppenguin]

Actually, I think that the bonus from RAs at the end is still pretty big... After my RA with Mongolia ended, I got near-instant Banking (I'd researched it for 2 turns with the intial estimate being 7). Everyone was still in Medieval/Renaissance era too.
This is on v. 11.2
EDIT: It was the combination of 3 RAs actually.

 

[RedRover57]

Is there a description somewhere about how RA's work in VEM? I couldn't find it on the website. In particular, can the amount of research received be modified in any way, e.g, by wonders, buildings, policies, etc. like PT and rationalism modify in vanilla?

In my very limited experience with VEM, RA's seem to be very underwhelming. Spending 250 gold for a very small tech boost (2 beakers/turn) at an early stage when cash is hard to come by does not seem to be very practical. I would rather sink that cash into other things. But it may be that I am not fully understanding the mechanics.

 

[Txurce]

Hover over the RA option and it explains the mechanic: pretty much, 3% of combined bpt between the two parties. The PT and one or more policies also affect it, as do DoF's. I think it's balanced just about right, in that early on I sometimes use it and sometimes don't... and do use it increasingly as more gold comes in. One of VEM's goals is that how to spend one's gold should not be a no-brainer.

 

[Ahriman]

I'm getting a bit confused by all the changes on this.

Could we please get a definitive post of the current design, with the effects and costs (if any) of open borders, declaration of friendship and research agreement, along with any modifiers from wonders or social policies?

 

[Txurce]

I'm getting a bit confused by all the changes on this.

Could we please get a definitive post of the current design, with the effects and costs (if any) of open borders, declaration of friendship and research agreement, along with any modifiers from wonders or social policies?

I don't think it's a "design" so much as a customizable strategy, which is why it hasn't been itemized as you requested. That said:

1. RA's contribute 3% of the combined research of both players to each player's science rate.*
   
2. DoF's increase the combined research by 50%.**
   
3. The PT increases trade deal rewards (including RA's) 25%

That's it. Of course there are other ways to boost science, but not ways that are directly linked to RA's.

* RA's also provide a small, unspecified boost at the end of the agreement.
** DoF's also boosts by 50% the 1% combined gross gold that OB give.