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Question about whipping

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by TheBackStabber, Feb 15, 2011.

  1. TheBackStabber

    TheBackStabber Chieftain

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    I know that whipping and cottages don't go together, but are there exceptions? Like are whipping courthouses and universities in cottaged cities a good idea? I already know that whipping the granary and sometimes the monument is a good idea, but any other buildings?
     
  2. AbsoluteZero

    AbsoluteZero Deity

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    Pangea
    Sometimes you have to whip to get key structures online, but in low food towns you should whip as sparingly as possible.
     
  3. RIcs

    RIcs Warlord

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    doesn't matter, as long as happy cap had reached.. whipping them away is already better than a red face sitting there doing nothing.
     
  4. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Deity

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    Whip until you have no need to whip more.
     
  5. LincolnOfRome

    LincolnOfRome Glutton for Punishment

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    I think whipping and cottages go together, especially in floodplains.
     
  6. coanda

    coanda Emperor

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    Whipping is a little more costly when your economy is driven by cottages as opposed to specialists (or trade routes), but it's still a strong enough option that it is often the right choice.

    That's especially the case if you're preparing for a war. If you're worried about your target developing a painful tech, trash your economy - whip and draft as much as you can to get that war won quickly.
     
  7. shyuhe

    shyuhe Deity

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    Whip if you absolutely need the building, e.g., a university to unlock Oxford. Otherwise don't whip your cottage cities. Whipping courthouses is questionable, unless you're spreading corporations or the maintenance is > 10 gpt.
     
  8. chadxo

    chadxo Chieftain

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    I was going to post this morning asking the same thing. Other than preparing for war or basic ultrastructure, how much whipping do you do once granaries/monuments/barracks/libraries are up? The example is of whipping Universities is perfect, do you usually stay in slavery that long and whip up Universities?

    Are there any basic rules (outside preparing for wars), like don't whip away cottages, or don't whip away specialists?

    Lastly, after you're done whipping the city down, do you grow it back asap, or do you just work it normally. For example, in a city with a couple gold mines, would you put the gold back online and slowly regrow, or would you ignore the gold and work food first and then put the gold back online?
     
  9. ColossusXXIII

    ColossusXXIII Warlord

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    I would say food first 90% of the time, regrow quick. then you can whip again or just work the tiles. more food=more options.
     
  10. vicawoo

    vicawoo Chieftain

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    The davemcw heuristic is whip if it will cause a net increase in your research. So 2 cottages for a library might be worth it if (beakers - 2 cottages) x 1.25% > beakers.

    As for gold mines, you can either run the numbers or trust the governor, which will probably outdo most players intuition.

    The ideal farms vs cottage point is make farms until you reach target size - non farm food surplus.
     
  11. Mec AntiKythera

    Mec AntiKythera King

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    Remember that small cities may grow back quicker that larger ones because of population stepping. However, if large cities have many food resources at hand they might be able to regrow quite fast as well. BTW, does anybody know the precise population stepping table, how many breads are required for each point of population?

    If you just don't have the hammers and you do have food I would, generally speaking, whip whatever you need, be it a building or a unit. Whip military, whip forges, whip workers and settlers, everything and anything if you have the need for it and the food to fuel it. And the happiness, but you weren't really asking about that.
     
  12. Windsor

    Windsor Flawless

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    Formula is 20+2n where n is the current population. Don't forget the granary in your calculations.
     
  13. Danelius90

    Danelius90 Hunter (of vegetables)

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    For normal speed. Is 3n for epic ;)
     
  14. Mec AntiKythera

    Mec AntiKythera King

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    Wow, thanks. Good infprmation served up quickly, what more could I ask for?

    So let's see, food needed by city size:

    Spoiler :
    1. 22
    2. 24
    3. 26
    4. 28
    5. 30
    6. 32
    7. 34
    8. 36
    9. 38
    10. 40
    11. 42
    12. 44
    13. 46
    14. 48
    15. 50
    16. 52
    17. 54
    18. 56
    19. 58
    20. 60
    21. 62
    22. 64
    23. 66
    24. 68
    25. 70


    I know, no surprises, but it still helps me to visualize it. Realistically you don't often have more than 5 food surplus tiles, some flood plains, some specials, some irrigated grassland farms, possible under Biology. So if you have 5 pop to work them and hurry your growth you are much better off whipping a pop 5 city than a pop 20 city in turns of regrowth. Of course a pop 5 city will feel the loss more and likely have less food sources anyway.

    As for the granary, that stores 50% of food after growth, meaning you need:
    Spoiler :
    1. 13
    2. 14
    3. 15
    4. 16
    5. 17
    6. 18
    7. 19
    8. 20
    9. 21
    10. 22
    11. 23
    12. 24
    13. 25
    14. 26
    15. 27
    16. 28
    17. 29
    18. 30
    19. 31
    20. 32
    21. 33
    22. 34
    23. 35
    24. 36
    25. 37


    Well that list is off by one spot, but you get the idea. A size 22 city needs about twice as much food as a size 5 city to grow back one pop point. That might not tell you which city to whip and when to do it, but you can take that into account when choosing whether to whip or not.

    Now, by looking at your food surplus per turn you can see how long you will be unable to work your cottage(s) and what the cost would be.
     
  15. RRRaskolnikov

    RRRaskolnikov Goldfish

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  16. Mec AntiKythera

    Mec AntiKythera King

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    Yes, very. Thanks, I'll have a look.
     
  17. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    The thing is, it's always a more complicated question than "does whipping go with my commerce city", cause each city is different. Growth is probably more important to the output of a cottage city than a library is, at least at first. But once you have 6 or 7 cottages working and maturing into hamlets and villages, the university is more important than another cottage. Of course, by then, it takes a long time to get whipped population back...
     

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